If You Want to Eat Pure Food, You're CRAZY!

Nutrition
21

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I think that rather than worry too much about those poor orthorexics who are alienating their unhealthy fatass friends through their “obsession” with non-poisonous food, the medical community ought to spend a little time dealing with the real problem: apathorexia nervosa.

This condition affects equal numbers of men and women, but sufferers tend to be aged between 18 and 45, lower-middle-class and not-very-well-educated. Apathorexia is described as “not giving a shit one way or another what kind of garbage one stuffs in one’s piehole.”

Surprisingly, there appear to be a large number of apathorexics in the fitness community, who are under the impression that as long as they are getting the requisite quantity of macronutrients, the nutritional quality of the food doesn’t really matter.

Apathorexics may often be seen eating Pop-Tarts and Big Macs, swilling Diet Coke, and extolling the virtues of the “bulk belly.”[/quote]

you’re beyond my help at this point. I really hope you recognize just how delusional you sound and seek professional help.

22

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
you’re beyond my help at this point. I really hope you recognize just how delusional you sound and seek professional help.[/quote]

I don’t want your help, nor do I need it.

Go eat your Little Debbie Snack Cakes, your chocolate milk and your ice cream, if that’s what you like to eat.

Me, I’ll stick to my steak, my avocados, my spinach and my blueberries.

Because as baffling as it must be to you, that’s what I like to eat.

Cheers.

23

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Otep wrote:
I’d say that, if your dietary requirements are making you socially isolated, it’s possible you’re doing something wrong.

One could say that about one’s exercise requirements as well.

The trick is to make friends with people who share your interests.[/quote]

THIS.

Fact is most of the other people at my uni have interests/hobbies (staying out late/drinking) that are harmful.

However I am doing something healthy, yet am in the minority so i am the one who must have a problem when I dont socialise as well with people who don’t have the same values as me?

24

“As if there’s any objective definition of ‘healthy’ anyway…”–you’re fucking kidding me, RIGHT?!! Do we understand every last detail of nutrition and its relationship to health, not by a long shot, however this does NOT mean that we are unable to “objectively define” healthy food and healthy eating habits! The nutritional science community knows with a high degree of certainty many foods and eating habits/behaviors which are either very health promoting or very health destroying.

The fact that certain individuals can,and will,take anything–including healthy eating–to extremes is surely no news. Unfortunately, the fat, lazy, complacent attitude of most people (at least in America)has now become the new “norm” by which certain people set standards.

Thus, anyone exhibiting any more knowledge and interest in high performance nutrition (you know, the kind that along with proper rest and exercise my very well contribute to your ability to function at a high level throughout your life cycle)is now considered an “extreme personality”. If you don’t swallow, line hook and sinker, the watered down drivel of the ADA (American Dietetic Association)as God sent gospel, you’re a “health NUT”.

We American’s have become so damn weak and lazy that if anything takes any real degree of dedication, discipline and persistance, well the hell with that–that’s only for those obsessed crazy people!

"What’s that? You want to go out to the club tonight? I can’t, I’m so fucking fat that I can’t walk across a room–let alone dance across one–without being exhausted and out of breath! Hang on Jim,the pizza guy’s here…Like I said, I’m just wiped out…I don’t seem to have any energy these days; I just don’t get it. By the way, they got a kitchen in that club? Can you order a burger or anything?

Crowbar

25

[quote]crowbar46 wrote:
“As if there’s any objective definition of ‘healthy’ anyway…”–you’re fucking kidding me, RIGHT?!! Do we understand every last detail of nutrition and its relationship to health, not by a long shot, however this does NOT mean that we are unable to “objectively define” healthy food and healthy eating habits! The nutritional science community knows with a high degree of certainty many foods and eating habits/behaviors which are either very health promoting or very health destroying.

The fact that certain individuals can,and will,take anything–including healthy eating–to extremes is surely no news. Unfortunately, the fat, lazy, complacent attitude of most people (at least in America)has now become the new “norm” by which certain people set standards.

Thus, anyone exhibiting any more knowledge and interest in high performance nutrition (you know, the kind that along with proper rest and exercise my very well contribute to your ability to function at a high level throughout your life cycle)is now considered an “extreme personality”. If you don’t swallow, line hook and sinker, the watered down drivel of the ADA (American Dietetic Association)as God sent gospel, you’re a “health NUT”.

We American’s have become so damn weak and lazy that if anything takes any real degree of dedication, discipline and persistance, well the hell with that–that’s only for those obsessed crazy people!

"What’s that? You want to go out to the club tonight? I can’t, I’m so fucking fat that I can’t walk across a room–let alone dance across one–without being exhausted and out of breath! Hang on Jim,the pizza guy’s here…Like I said, I’m just wiped out…I don’t seem to have any energy these days; I just don’t get it. By the way, they got a kitchen in that club? Can you order a burger or anything?

Crowbar[/quote]

and yet, in all that, you didn’t give me an objective definition of what a “healthy food” is. interesting…

26

Gee, let me see–trans fat laden, processed, calorie dense, nutrient sparse, swill (you insert the food–I know, I know, it’s rocket science and you can’t figure out “objectively” what I’m talking about. How about Mcdonald’s and other fast foods typically eaten in abundance–and which the ADA still insists you can indulge in in “moderation”!

How about pastries, cakes, white potatoes slathered with sour cream/margerine, potatoe chips, processed white bread, processed cereal, grain feed “factory beef” high in inflamatory Omega-6’s and low in Omega-3’s, High fructose corn syrup laden “healthy” fruit “beverages”, etc., etc., etc).

Or…SURPRISE…organic fruits and vegetables high in fiber and anti-oxidant polyphenols and anthocyanins. Unprocessed or sprouted grains high in enzymes, fiber, minerals,and lower in glycemic index, grass feed beef high in anti-inflamatory Omega-3’s and low in inflamatory Omega-6’s.

Healthy fats such as extra virgin olive oil, polyunsaturated fats high in Omega-3’s, EPA and DHA from fish/fish oil, MCT’s from Coconut oil–all of which through various mechanisms help lower blood pressure, increase insulin sensitivity, improve lipid profiles, help prevent heart disease and may contribute to fat loss (as opposed to the typical fats people shove in their faces, which essentially have the exact opposite effects of the health promoting fats listed above).

I know, I just finished my rocket science degree or that would have been very difficult…no, impossible to figure out “objectively” ( and, yes, there is copious research to back up the claims as to the health destroying effects of the former list of foods, as well as the health promoting effects of the latter list).

Isn’t it time for you to swing by the drive-thru?

Crowbar

27

[quote]crowbar46 wrote:
Gee, let me see–trans fat laden, processed, calorie dense, nutrient sparse, swill (you insert the food–I know, I know, it’s rocket science and you can’t figure out “objectively” what I’m talking about. How about Mcdonald’s and other fast foods typically eaten in abundance–and which the ADA still insists you can indulge in in “moderation”!
Crowbar[/quote]

No transfat huh? I guess dairy is “unhealthy” now.

see here: http://www.tfx.org.uk/page62.html

“In conclusion, by eating meat and dairy products, you will be eating naturally-occurring trans fatty acids. But population studies do not indicate that these particular trans isomers are significantly harmful, at least in the quantities and proportions in which they naturally occur in animal products. Also, among these natural trans fatty acids, there may be trans isomers present - such as CLA - which are positively beneficial to health.”

Processed food is unhealthy? I guess yogurt & cheese (both processed from milk), fish oils, multivitamins, and protein powders are unhealthy too right?

Calorie dense food is unhealthy? There goes olive oil, nuts, avocados, and dried fruit, all very calorie dense.

Nutrient sparse food is unhealthy?

Newsflash: in the context of an otherwise healthful and nutrient-dense diet, you CAN eat moderate amounts of “nutrient-sparse” food with NO ill effects. Even John Berardi, T-Nation poster-boy, will suck down a mixture of simple sugars and protein (oh noes! teh processed food!) after a workout…does it look like his health and/or physique is worse off because of it?

Not everything you eat HAS to be packed with every sort of nutrient and antioxidant known to man for a diet to be healthy. In fact, if you LIMIT yourself to only those foods that are the MOST nutrient-dense (fruits, veggies, lean protein) then you will have a MUCH harder time building an appreciable amount of muscle than if you get some (notice I said SOME, not all) your calories from “unclean” sources. This is especially true for so-called “hardgainers”.

Finally, crowbar, think about this: Even if you limit yourself to ONLY healthy food (however you choose to define that) you can STILL get fat if you overeat and are inactive…and guess what? Being obese is unhealthy :slight_smile:

I look forward to your rebuttal.

28

  1. YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!! There’s a HUGE difference between the (small) amount of naturally occuring trans fats in healthy food and the MAN-MADE trans-fat garbage you apparently love to defend! Look at the research; the correlation between MAN-MADE trans-fat consumption and heart disease is impossible to dismiss–even through your twisted logic. Here’s a fucking news flash: the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine, in 2002, concluded in a report that “the only safe intake of trans-fat is zero.”

  2. NEVER did I say ALL processing was unhealthy or destructive. Here’s where common sense comes into play (and leaves you out of the equation). When you remove all the most healthy portions of, for example, a grain and only leave intact the LEAST nutritionally useful portions and completely alter how it would otherwise be utilized by the human body, common sense tells you you have made a fundamental error–that simple.

  3. Calorie dense food unhealthy? Again, the inability to use logic, common sense, or place comments in context. The context was CLEARLY calorically dense foods that are also nutritionally void!

4)Yes, the nutritionally sparse foods eaten in this country in abundance are PREDOMINANTLY unhealthy. Furthermore, they cause “nutritional displacement”–that is, they displace the consumption of healthier choices. Yet another news flash for you: the VAST majority of people in this country do not have the nutritional knowledge or discipline of a John Berardi. Eating shit food OCCASIONALLY in the context of “an otherwise healthy” diet is fine, but that’s the fucking problem–most people DON’T eat “an otherwise healthy” diet. Just look at the statistics: were’re becoming a fatter and more unhealthy population by the year, largely because of the complacent bullshit that people like you and the ADA shovel out!

The young people growing up today will be the first generation expected to have a shorter life expectancy than the previous generation since we started tracking it! How anyone can advocate for a lazy, give-a-shit approach to nutrition is beyond me. The message you, and people like you, send to young kids is–as far as I can tell–appalling!

Crowbar

29

I don’t know if a rebuttal is necessary, JMo. You said it yourself on another thread: it’s the dosage that makes the poison.

Obviously, I could eat a deep-fried Little Debbie Strawberry Shortcake Bar dipped in bacon grease, caramel, and Roundup herbicide, then sprinkled with hemlock leaf, salmonella, anthrax and cesium-137, and if I get the dosages just right, I won’t die. In fact, I might even be considered “perfectly healthy” at my next physical exam.

However, if I ate this concoction regularly, and at the expense of more nutritious fare, I would probably not be as healthy as I would like to be.

Indeed, a diet consisting of an excess of anything (even “healthy food”) at the expense of something else the body needs can be deleterious. If I ate nothing but your aforementioned boiled chicken breasts and water, I would die of acute malnutrition (“rabbit starvation”) within a month, even if they were free-range, cage-free, vegetarian diet, organically-grown chicken breasts.

I am aware of the guy who ate nothing but McDonalds “food” for a month, and actually built muscle while losing fat. Bully for him. He obviously knows that exercise is a vital part of attaining one’s body composition goals. I wouldn’t do it, though, even if you paid me. I happen to prefer the taste of rare buffalo, beef, venison, fresh fruits, nuts, and berries, and raw vegetables and herbs, to Big Macs, french fries, cake and ice cream, so that’s what I eat.

If I want something sweet, it’s usually fruit. If I ever get a craving for what an American would consider “dessert”, then it’s Green & Black organic dark chocolate. Not because I think it’s “healthier” or higher quality than a Hershey bar (although it probably is), nor because I care about the poor indigenous tribes of wherever being exploited by the cruel corporate blah blah blah, but because I think it tastes better.

I do seek out non-genetically modified foods, and foods that have been grown without chemical herbicides, fertilizers and pesticides; not because they’re “healthier” (which they probably are), not because they’re “better for the planet” (which I think is also bullshit), or even to stick it to Monsanto (even though I wouldn’t be sad if somebody dropped a few fertilizer bombs on Monsanto headquarters), but because they are usually grown locally, and therefore are fresher and taste better.

Perhaps my diet would be considered “obsessive” by some people, but it’s right for me. It’s a question of taste, which cannot seriously be debated.

30

The idea of taste is probably more of an emotionally elicited response, therefore, if you like the taste of a “healthy”, locally grown food as I and many others do then go for it. This is a redundant argument against someone who has a different context on what defines what he puts in his body. People who enjoy eating real foods have nothing to argue about because along with satisfying our emotions, we are getting a healthy return. I know it’s hard to believe that some people don’t have a significant taste for processed and fast foods but it actually exists. I love fresh fruit, vegetables, and meat more than I love McDonald’s and the likes.

31

The article reflects the attitude of the general public, who may think anyone who is intent on reaching a personal goal is mentally ill.

“Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated”.

However, if your eating habits are the center of your life, with the exclusion of everything and everyone else, then you’re in trouble. Also, there is no need to become self-righteous about it, either. Healthy eating is part of a healthy lifestyle, and a means to reach your physical goal. Eating clean and working out doesn’t make you better or worse than anyone else. Using your lifestyle as a meter stick by which to measure others is small minded and elitist.

32

I have nothing to add to the topic at hand, but did you people know there is actually a bacon flavored mayonnaise out there?

33

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
If your eating habits are the center of your life, with the exclusion of everything and everyone else, then you’re in trouble. Also, there is no need to become self-righteous about it, either. Healthy eating is part of a healthy lifestyle, and a means to reach your physical goal. Eating clean and working out doesn’t make you better or worse than anyone else. Using your lifestyle as a meter stick by which to measure others is small minded and elitist.[/quote]

I’ll agree with that.

And I don’t think I’m self-righteous about the foods I eat, although I do enjoy looking at other people’s carts at the grocery store, and matching body shapes to food choices. The fatties do generally have a higher probability of having a cart full of soda pop, frozen pizza, candies, cakes, and other assorted gunk, and very few fresh vegetables, unprocessed foods, or what I would consider “healthy food.”

I never say anything about it to them, though. None of my business.

34

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
And I don’t think I’m self-righteous about the foods I eat, although I do enjoy looking at other people’s carts at the grocery store, and matching body shapes to food choices.
[/quote]

Interesting passtime, I also see a direct correlation between amount of processed, sugary foods in boxes and amount of bodyfat on the shopper. Although it breaks my heart, when I see several obese kids in tow, being fed that junk by their parents. I have to walk the other way in silence, because it is upsetting to me.

The article referred to a feeling of self-righteous satisfaction felt by some who restrict their eating to pure foods. This behavior is typical of people who feel helpless, inferior or that their life is beyond their control. This is the basis of just about all eating disorders, anorexia, buliemia, etc… They can control their eating, which is the only empowerment they have.

35

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Although it breaks my heart, when I see several obese kids in tow, being fed that junk by their parents. I have to walk the other way in silence, because it is upsetting to me.[/quote]

See, I feel worse when I see a big fat mother with a little skinny five-year-old kid in tow. Because I know that the chances of that poor little kid escaping both genetics and environment is practically nil, and will end up as a fat adolescent and teen her/himself.

36

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
The article referred to a feeling of self-righteous satisfaction felt by some who restrict their eating to pure foods. This behavior is typical of people who feel helpless, inferior or that their life is beyond their control. This is the basis of just about all eating disorders, anorexia, buliemia, etc… They can control their eating, which is the only empowerment they have.[/quote]

I’m not sure how much of that I buy. As I said, I feel satisfied with my food choices when I look at the poor slobs waddling in and out of Wal-Mart, who clearly have dietary habits totally unlike mine, but how is that different from someone with a nice house, nice car, good job and happy family feeling satisfied with his life choices when he sees a homeless crack addict on the street? Is that “self-righteous” as well? Is it indicative of a psychological disorder?

How many of us feel a “self righteous satisfaction” when we look at our own strong, fit and muscular bodies in relation to the average fat, flabby, weak Americans all around us? Does the feeling of power we feel at the sight of our own physical transformation necessarily mean that we train to counteract a feeling of powerlessness in other aspects of our lives?

I repeat what I said to Otep: if the article was talking not about a fixation on healthy foods (orthorexia), but a fixation on physical fitness and strength (orthosthenia?), implying that people who would rather lift weights and develop their bodies than watch TV and hang out at the mall must have a serious psychological disorder, would that be any less bullshit than this article?

37

There is a big difference between being self righteous, and feeling self satisfaction.

The former implies arrogance, the latter implies pride and contentment.

38

While self-righteousness might not necessarily be a sign you are crazy it might be a good indicator that you’re an asshole. :stuck_out_tongue:

I am guilty of this at times, but I do not see my self-righteousness as a virtue nor is it a quality I enjoy in myself. I tend to view my understanding of nutrition and health and the affluence to practice it as a privilege.

39

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I repeat what I said to Otep: if the article was talking not about a fixation on healthy foods (orthorexia), but a fixation on physical fitness and strength (orthosthenia?), implying that people who would rather lift weights and develop their bodies than watch TV and hang out at the mall must have a serious psychological disorder, would that be any less bullshit than this article?[/quote]

If anything, whether it be habit, behaviour, etc. becomes obsessive, to the exclusion of everything else, and the result of this behaviour becomes detrimental to your health, then it is considered a disorder.

I do not consider a fixation on healthy foods, fitness or strength a disorder.

40

Of course, it is entirely possible that what we perceive in ourselves as self-satisfaction, others perceive as self-righteousness.

Nobody who smokes likes an ex-smoker, because they tend to be arrogant, self-righteous assholes. Or are they? Could it be that the ex-smoker’s comment that “I quit smoking and I sure do feel better” is not, in fact, an implied indictment of the smoker’s lifestyle?

Is it possible that many people don’t actually flaunt their money, their good looks, their expensive car, their happy marriages, their well-adjusted children, their physical health and fitness, and their dietary choices for the purpose of aggrandizing themselves at the expense of others who don’t have what they have, but are just perceived as doing so by the have-nots?

This is called envy. Something that you, Debra, and you, Momma, have surely been objects of in your lives. You may not consciously flaunt the fact that you’re beautiful, successful, smart, strong, talented women, but I’m sure plenty of unattractive, unsuccessful, stupid, weak, untalented people have looked at you and resented your very existence, as an affront to what they perceive as their own lesser existences.

It’s their burden, though. Not yours. You needn’t feel guilty for your attributes, nor should you perceive the honest pride you feel in yourself as sinful “self-righteousness.”

Similarly, if you make lifestyle choices that make you healthier and more fit than others, as long as you don’t rub the other people’s faces in it, then there’s no problem.