[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
So any hunter who positions himself anywhere near a food source is not a hunter but a “killer”. Rock on fools, rock on![/quote]
He’s always a killer, and there is nothing wrong with that. Is it ethical to bait a deer and kill it for food? Yes. Is it fair chase? No.
Baiting is illegal in some places.
Edited[/quote]
Do you believe baiting, where legal, is unethical?
If so, do you believe the use of buffalo jumps and desert kites by ancient and not so ancient hunters was unethical?
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
So any hunter who positions himself anywhere near a food source is not a hunter but a “killer”. Rock on fools, rock on![/quote]
He’s always a killer, and there is nothing wrong with that. Is it ethical to bait a deer and kill it for food? Yes. Is it fair chase? No.
Baiting is illegal in some places.
Edited[/quote]
Do you believe baiting, where legal, is unethical?
If so, do you believe the use of buffalo jumps and desert kites by ancient and not so ancient hunters was unethical?
[/quote]
He wrote: “Is it ethical to bait a deer and kill it for food? Yes”
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
So any hunter who positions himself anywhere near a food source is not a hunter but a “killer”. Rock on fools, rock on![/quote]
He’s always a killer, and there is nothing wrong with that. Is it ethical to bait a deer and kill it for food? Yes. Is it fair chase? No.
Baiting is illegal in some places.
Edited[/quote]
Do you believe baiting, where legal, is unethical?
If so, do you believe the use of buffalo jumps and desert kites by ancient and not so ancient hunters was unethical?
[/quote]
I just said it was ethical. If it’s illegal, it could be unethical on the grounds that you would be breaking the law, if you care about that sort of thing.
If you’re eating the animal, I don’t care how you get it as long as it’s killed humanely. I do think it’s unethical to shoot an animal purely for sport, and I see no sport in baiting a hungry animal and shooting it.
…If you’re eating the animal, I don’t care how you get it as long as it’s killed humanely…
[/quote]
Then lambasting the Plains Indians is in order.
There’s hardly a more inhumane way to kill bison than to run them off buffalo jumps. It took most of them several hours before they died because they had to wait for the squaws to show up with knives and lances while they lay piled up on top of each other, broken and bleeding and suffering horribly – not to mention being disemboweled alive by the wolves and coyotes that followed the herd and took advantage of the carnage caused by the Indians.
You keep on pontificating, modern day city boy. I’m all ears. Love hearing your informed perspective.[/quote]
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
So any hunter who positions himself anywhere near a food source is not a hunter but a “killer”. Rock on fools, rock on![/quote]
He’s always a killer, and there is nothing wrong with that. Is it ethical to bait a deer and kill it for food? Yes. Is it fair chase? No.
Baiting is illegal in some places.
Edited[/quote]
Do you believe baiting, where legal, is unethical?
If so, do you believe the use of buffalo jumps and desert kites by ancient and not so ancient hunters was unethical?
[/quote]
I just said it was ethical. If it’s illegal, it could be unethical on the grounds that you would be breaking the law, if you care about that sort of thing.
If you’re eating the animal, I don’t care how you get it as long as it’s killed humanely. I do think it’s unethical to shoot an animal purely for sport, and I see no sport in baiting a hungry animal and shooting it. [/quote]
Sorry, somehow I misread that. I’m curious as to what source your ethics derive from.
Just read this. I like when the cop says, they think they got the croc responsibile…
What that SHOULD have said, was that Mr. Cole was responsible for the outcome. The croc just did what they do best, pick out the easiest food source, and go for it. Grab it, drag it to the bottom, and let it drown, then proceed to eat it. I like how an animal gets punished for someone else being on the short end of the gene pool.
Darwin award right there.[/quote]
Ya, it pisses me off every time an animal is put down for doing exactly what it’s designed to do. [/quote]
Because a hunter does exactly what it’s designed to do?[/quote]
I don’t understand the question?
Some guy in the article tried to swim across a Croc infested river, when he was eaten, the Croc was killed. That is stupid, imo.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
So many non-hunters convening to decide what’s sporting or not. Interesting.
Maybe:
[i]T-Nation should convene a group of folks who don’t step foot into a gym for an upcoming article to help us decide proper squatting depth.
A group of plumbers should convene to help decide how to battle the resurgence of the Ebola virus in Africa.
A convent should decide how NASA should transition from the space shuttle and space station to exploring Mars.
A group of journalists should help determine the proper grade and the pumping station distances for the Keystone Pipeline.[/i][/quote]
Shooting a baited wolf isn’t as complicated as the issues you’ve identified. It doesn’t take an expert to realize it’s grimy. Should we bring in a botanist to tell us grass is green?
[/quote]
Why is bait not sporting, plenty of sustenance hunters use bait and I don’t see anyone calling them grimy or non-sporting (even when they use traps)? We still haven’t had anyone explain to us what sporting is…
[quote]cwill1973 wrote:
So any hunter who positions himself anywhere near a food source is not a hunter but a “killer”. Rock on fools, rock on![/quote]
He’s always a killer, and there is nothing wrong with that. Is it ethical to bait a deer and kill it for food? Yes. Is it fair chase? No.
Baiting is illegal in some places.
Edited[/quote]
What is fair chase? There is plenty written about it by conservationists like Boone and Crockett.
Baiting is a controversy within Fair Chase advocates, so to just say it is not fair chase without giving reasons does not make sense nor do you give credence to all the other fair chase advocates who have actually argued for or against baiting.
…If you’re eating the animal, I don’t care how you get it as long as it’s killed humanely…
[/quote]
Then lambasting the Plains Indians is in order.
There’s hardly a more inhumane way to kill bison than to run them off buffalo jumps. It took most of them several hours or even days before they died because they had to wait for the squaws to show up with knives and lances while they lay piled up on top of each other, broken and bleeding and suffering horribly – not to mention being disemboweled alive by the wolves and coyotes that followed the herd and took advantage of the carnage caused by the Indians.
You keep on pontificating, modern day city boy. I’m all ears. Love hearing your informed perspective.[/quote]
Hunting for food you don’t really need is far different than doing what you need to do for survival.
hunting a baited animal is the equivalent to fishing with dynamite.
and comparing the hunting techniques of the ancient native people to the modern hunter is one of the more ludicrous comparisons i’ve read on here in awhile.
…If you’re eating the animal, I don’t care how you get it as long as it’s killed humanely…
[/quote]
Then lambasting the Plains Indians is in order.
There’s hardly a more inhumane way to kill bison than to run them off buffalo jumps. It took most of them several hours before they died because they had to wait for the squaws to show up with knives and lances while they lay piled up on top of each other, broken and bleeding and suffering horribly – not to mention being disemboweled alive by the wolves and coyotes that followed the herd and took advantage of the carnage caused by the Indians.
You keep on pontificating, modern day city boy. I’m all ears. Love hearing your informed perspective.[/quote]
Is this really your argument?
[/quote]
It’s not an argument, it’s a commentary on your modern day city boy commentary.[/quote]
It’s an argument because you were trying to convince me (or any reader) that there’s hardly a more inhumane way to kill bison than to run them off buffalo jumps, and you provided reasons for your conclusion. Thus, an argument.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
So many non-hunters convening to decide what’s sporting or not. Interesting.
Maybe:
[i]T-Nation should convene a group of folks who don’t step foot into a gym for an upcoming article to help us decide proper squatting depth.
A group of plumbers should convene to help decide how to battle the resurgence of the Ebola virus in Africa.
A convent should decide how NASA should transition from the space shuttle and space station to exploring Mars.
A group of journalists should help determine the proper grade and the pumping station distances for the Keystone Pipeline.[/i][/quote]
Shooting a baited wolf isn’t as complicated as the issues you’ve identified. It doesn’t take an expert to realize it’s grimy. Should we bring in a botanist to tell us grass is green?
[/quote]
Why is bait not sporting, plenty of sustenance hunters use bait and I don’t see anyone calling them grimy or non-sporting (even when they use traps)? We still haven’t had anyone explain to us what sporting is…[/quote]
Sustenance hunters are hunting for survival, not for entertainment. I don’t think fair chase applies here because of what is at stake. I think traps are grimy, and should only be used when absolutely necessary.
Let’s start with this:
“Fair Chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over such animals.” â?? Boone and Crockett Club
[quote]pushharder wrote:
So many non-hunters convening to decide what’s sporting or not. Interesting.
Maybe:
[i]T-Nation should convene a group of folks who don’t step foot into a gym for an upcoming article to help us decide proper squatting depth.
A group of plumbers should convene to help decide how to battle the resurgence of the Ebola virus in Africa.
A convent should decide how NASA should transition from the space shuttle and space station to exploring Mars.
A group of journalists should help determine the proper grade and the pumping station distances for the Keystone Pipeline.[/i][/quote]
Shooting a baited wolf isn’t as complicated as the issues you’ve identified. It doesn’t take an expert to realize it’s grimy. Should we bring in a botanist to tell us grass is green?
[/quote]
Why is bait not sporting, plenty of sustenance hunters use bait and I don’t see anyone calling them grimy or non-sporting (even when they use traps)? We still haven’t had anyone explain to us what sporting is…[/quote]
Sustenance hunters are hunting for survival, not for entertainment. I don’t think fair chase applies here because of what is at stake. I think traps are grimy, and should only be used when absolutely necessary.
Let’s start with this:
“Fair Chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over such animals.” - Boone and Crockett Club
[/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
So many non-hunters convening to decide what’s sporting or not. Interesting.
Maybe:
[i]T-Nation should convene a group of folks who don’t step foot into a gym for an upcoming article to help us decide proper squatting depth.
A group of plumbers should convene to help decide how to battle the resurgence of the Ebola virus in Africa.
A convent should decide how NASA should transition from the space shuttle and space station to exploring Mars.
A group of journalists should help determine the proper grade and the pumping station distances for the Keystone Pipeline.[/i][/quote]
Shooting a baited wolf isn’t as complicated as the issues you’ve identified. It doesn’t take an expert to realize it’s grimy. Should we bring in a botanist to tell us grass is green?
[/quote]
Why is bait not sporting, plenty of sustenance hunters use bait and I don’t see anyone calling them grimy or non-sporting (even when they use traps)? We still haven’t had anyone explain to us what sporting is…[/quote]
Sustenance hunters are hunting for survival, not for entertainment. I don’t think fair chase applies here because of what is at stake. I think traps are grimy, and should only be used when absolutely necessary.
Let’s start with this:
“Fair Chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and taking of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over such animals.” â?? Boone and Crockett Club
[/quote]
And yet animals shot over bait where legal are eligible to make it into the B&C books. In this definition the word “free-ranging” is the key to fair chase and has nothing to do with baiting.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
hunting a baited animal is the equivalent to fishing with dynamite.
and comparing the hunting techniques of the ancient native people to the modern hunter is one of the more ludicrous comparisons i’ve read on here in awhile. [/quote]
Wouldn’t it be comparable to fishing with a baited hook? Do you hunt?
[quote]Aggv wrote:
hunting a baited animal is the equivalent to fishing with dynamite.
and comparing the hunting techniques of the ancient native people to the modern hunter is one of the more ludicrous comparisons i’ve read on here in awhile. [/quote]
Wouldn’t it be comparable to fishing with a baited hook? Do you hunt?
[/quote]
If you drew the fish in with a bait and then speared it, yes. However, fishing requires the fish to “take the bait”.