Human Life vs Animal Life

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This is a picture of Earth from Saturn. Looking at that, I can’t help but believe that no life, of any kind, has intrinsic value.

It’s all about point of view. Human life is valuable to us because we are the ones experiencing it. The sense of humanity comes from a group of individuals acknowledging that all humans are the centre of their own subjective universe, striking this deal so that we don’t kill each other. Do unto others… basically.

So, objectively human life is no more important than animal life, but it’s definitely more important to us.

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And bacon.

And boobs.

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I think intrinsic value for humans can be explained via things like anthropomorphism and from that, recognizing individuals outside of ourselves have volition the same or similar to our own. If we value our own volition we should value the volition and capacities and potential of other human’s as a default. We come equipped with feelings like guilt, and for the most part we as humans agree on things we should feel guilty, or badly about. What things are averse to, like pain and suffering and what things we seek out and call good, like pleasure and happiness.

We should also look at ourselves as animals/ via some biological understanding of what it means to be a thriving human, what functions and skills does that human use to thrive? We come equipped with so many tools, digits and thumbs, we walk upright, we are social and seem to have cognition beyond all other animals we know of.

To me, the recognition of cognition and self awareness is valuable. That means I value creatures that might be able to in turn anthropomorphize me, which requires self awareness. Apes, I have a feeling the dolphin family can do it as well, perhaps some cephalopods, but I love calamari.

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[quote]Diddy Ryder wrote:
And bacon.

And boobs.[/quote]

Bacon on boobs.

Bacon bras.

Bacon thongs.

Bacon.

Gin.

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[quote]Travacolypse wrote:
That you’re smart enough to ask the question means you’re smart enough to know the answer.

But if you need more convincing, take the alien intelligence analogy one step further. Do you, as an individual of above-average intelligence have the right to do as you like with everyone less intelligent than you? Does someone slightly more intelligent than you have the right to dispose of you if they so desire? Furthermore, where should the line be set? At 10 IQ points? 20? 50?

Drill down deep enough and you’ll see that intelligence alone is a piss-poor benchmark for determining intrinsic worth. Rather, it’s just the thinking man’s version of “might makes right.”

At some intrinsic level, I think most people understand that there’s no moral justification for extinguishing any life.

After all, the tablet reads “Thou shalt not kill…” not “Thou shalt not kill humans.”[/quote]

Are you seriously going to try to use a biblical justification for not killing animals? Really??

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” Gen 1:26

“12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.”
Acts 10: 12-13

Not to mention the hundreds of mentions of ritualistic animal sacrifice. But yeah, you stick with that “Thou shall not kill argument”

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[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I believe humans are more valuable because there is something inside of us that makes us special. Let’s look at the chimp, out closest comparison…I guess. Look at what humans have accomplished, just a small example here. We have created a small hand held device that allows us to access all known information to man in a matter of seconds. If you stop and think about what all human beings have done it is really mind blowing. What the fuck has a chimp done? Learned sign language that we taught it. Went into space on a ROCKET SHIP that we built.

[/quote]

You’re missing my question. You keep saying human life is more valuable because of technology we’ve created. You’re judging the value of human life based on intelligence, which is arbitrary. If we based it off physical strength, a lion’s life or a bear’s life would be more valuable than a human life.

But on that note, I’m asking, if say a vastly more intelligent alien race came along, with vastly superior technology and they believed their lives hold more value than human life based off of greater intelligence, how would you defend the position that your life is just as important and meaningful as the life of a member of this alien race?

What if this alien race indiscriminately killed humans in order to harvest human genitals solely for the motive of making money and they saw nothing wrong with this because they believed their superior intelligence entitles them to do whatever they want to humans? How can you say this alien race is wrong in what they’re doing?[/quote]

I think I am getting your question just fine. I said I think humans(as a whole) have something inside of us that makes us special. Those were just a couple of examples of a very long list of reasons why I think human life has more value.

On your alien question, I think that humans are so special that it wouldn’t sustain for long. We as humans would rise up and conquer the aliens.

For lack of a better word I believe humans are a divine being.

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[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I believe humans are more valuable because there is something inside of us that makes us special. Let’s look at the chimp, out closest comparison…I guess. Look at what humans have accomplished, just a small example here. We have created a small hand held device that allows us to access all known information to man in a matter of seconds. If you stop and think about what all human beings have done it is really mind blowing. What the fuck has a chimp done? Learned sign language that we taught it. Went into space on a ROCKET SHIP that we built.

[/quote]

You’re missing my question. You keep saying human life is more valuable because of technology we’ve created. You’re judging the value of human life based on intelligence, which is arbitrary. If we based it off physical strength, a lion’s life or a bear’s life would be more valuable than a human life.

But on that note, I’m asking, if say a vastly more intelligent alien race came along, with vastly superior technology and they believed their lives hold more value than human life based off of greater intelligence, how would you defend the position that your life is just as important and meaningful as the life of a member of this alien race?

What if this alien race indiscriminately killed humans in order to harvest human genitals solely for the motive of making money and they saw nothing wrong with this because they believed their superior intelligence entitles them to do whatever they want to humans? How can you say this alien race is wrong in what they’re doing?[/quote]

I think I am getting your question just fine. I said I think humans(as a whole) have something inside of us that makes us special. Those were just a couple of examples of a very long list of reasons why I think human life has more value.

On your alien question, I think that humans are so special that it wouldn’t sustain for long. We as humans would rise up and conquer the aliens.

For lack of a better word I believe humans are a divine being.[/quote]

That’s IF we could. We could be talking about aliens that are like Supermen compared to us.

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A slight tangent but while we’re on about aliens:

We are “type zero” on a scale of one to three…

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[quote]Diddy Ryder wrote:
A slight tangent but while we’re on about aliens:

We are “type zero” on a scale of one to three…

[/quote]

So why was he explaining Murica? Now we just need to produce a Monolith million, million, million times.

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Question for Csuli:

How many 'pounds from glory" is OP’s avatar?

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[quote]Waittz wrote:
Question for Csuli:

How many 'pounds from glory" is OP’s avatar? [/quote]
Ooo good question. I’ll say 15. That might be off a bit I dunno. I’m much worse at guessing women’s weights than men’s.

That being said I’d take her as is lol. I don’t mind a little cushion.

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[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Question for Csuli:

How many 'pounds from glory" is OP’s avatar? [/quote]
Ooo good question. I’ll say 15. That might be off a bit I dunno. I’m much worse at guessing women’s weights than men’s.

That being said I’d take her as is lol. I don’t mind a little cushion.[/quote]

She isnt fat, she is aquiring mass…

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[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Question for Csuli:

How many 'pounds from glory" is OP’s avatar? [/quote]
Ooo good question. I’ll say 15. That might be off a bit I dunno. I’m much worse at guessing women’s weights than men’s.

That being said I’d take her as is lol. I don’t mind a little cushion.[/quote]

She isnt fat, she is aquiring mass… [/quote]
Terminal weight.

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[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Question for Csuli:

How many 'pounds from glory" is OP’s avatar? [/quote]
Ooo good question. I’ll say 15. That might be off a bit I dunno. I’m much worse at guessing women’s weights than men’s.

That being said I’d take her as is lol. I don’t mind a little cushion.[/quote]

She isnt fat, she is aquiring mass… [/quote]
Terminal weight.[/quote]

Is that like reaching the weight in which you can not gain any more? Like Terminal Velocity?

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[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Question for Csuli:

How many 'pounds from glory" is OP’s avatar? [/quote]
Ooo good question. I’ll say 15. That might be off a bit I dunno. I’m much worse at guessing women’s weights than men’s.

That being said I’d take her as is lol. I don’t mind a little cushion.[/quote]

She isnt fat, she is aquiring mass… [/quote]
Terminal weight.[/quote]

Is that like reaching the weight in which you can not gain any more? Like Terminal Velocity?
[/quote]
Yep.

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[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I believe humans are more valuable because there is something inside of us that makes us special. Let’s look at the chimp, out closest comparison…I guess. Look at what humans have accomplished, just a small example here. We have created a small hand held device that allows us to access all known information to man in a matter of seconds. If you stop and think about what all human beings have done it is really mind blowing. What the fuck has a chimp done? Learned sign language that we taught it. Went into space on a ROCKET SHIP that we built.

[/quote]

You’re missing my question. You keep saying human life is more valuable because of technology we’ve created. You’re judging the value of human life based on intelligence, which is arbitrary. If we based it off physical strength, a lion’s life or a bear’s life would be more valuable than a human life.

But on that note, I’m asking, if say a vastly more intelligent alien race came along, with vastly superior technology and they believed their lives hold more value than human life based off of greater intelligence, how would you defend the position that your life is just as important and meaningful as the life of a member of this alien race?

What if this alien race indiscriminately killed humans in order to harvest human genitals solely for the motive of making money and they saw nothing wrong with this because they believed their superior intelligence entitles them to do whatever they want to humans? How can you say this alien race is wrong in what they’re doing?[/quote]

I think I am getting your question just fine. I said I think humans(as a whole) have something inside of us that makes us special. Those were just a couple of examples of a very long list of reasons why I think human life has more value.

On your alien question, I think that humans are so special that it wouldn’t sustain for long. We as humans would rise up and conquer the aliens.

For lack of a better word I believe humans are a divine being.[/quote]

That’s IF we could. We could be talking about aliens that are like Supermen compared to us.[/quote]

You’re missing my answers to your original questions. Superman has kryptonite. We could go back and forth like this for a while. I think if we were invaded by a superior alien species we could overcome them.

So what do you think? Do you really believe that a humans life has no more value than an animal?

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[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I believe humans are more valuable because there is something inside of us that makes us special. Let’s look at the chimp, out closest comparison…I guess. Look at what humans have accomplished, just a small example here. We have created a small hand held device that allows us to access all known information to man in a matter of seconds. If you stop and think about what all human beings have done it is really mind blowing. What the fuck has a chimp done? Learned sign language that we taught it. Went into space on a ROCKET SHIP that we built.

[/quote]

You’re missing my question. You keep saying human life is more valuable because of technology we’ve created. You’re judging the value of human life based on intelligence, which is arbitrary. If we based it off physical strength, a lion’s life or a bear’s life would be more valuable than a human life.

But on that note, I’m asking, if say a vastly more intelligent alien race came along, with vastly superior technology and they believed their lives hold more value than human life based off of greater intelligence, how would you defend the position that your life is just as important and meaningful as the life of a member of this alien race?

What if this alien race indiscriminately killed humans in order to harvest human genitals solely for the motive of making money and they saw nothing wrong with this because they believed their superior intelligence entitles them to do whatever they want to humans? How can you say this alien race is wrong in what they’re doing?[/quote]

I think I am getting your question just fine. I said I think humans(as a whole) have something inside of us that makes us special. Those were just a couple of examples of a very long list of reasons why I think human life has more value.

On your alien question, I think that humans are so special that it wouldn’t sustain for long. We as humans would rise up and conquer the aliens.

For lack of a better word I believe humans are a divine being.[/quote]

That’s IF we could. We could be talking about aliens that are like Supermen compared to us.[/quote]

You’re missing my answers to your original questions. Superman has kryptonite. We could go back and forth like this for a while. I think if we were invaded by a superior alien species we could overcome them.

So what do you think? Do you really believe that a humans life has no more value than an animal?

[/quote]

I don’t think it has more intrinsic value, only the value we give it. I do have a problem on arbitrarily picking a trait and stating that since we have more of that trait, human life is more valuable than animal life. Because if we use intelligence as a measure, then you have to say, in order to be logically consistent, that if some lifeform more intelligent than humans came along, there life would be worth more than human life.

It is also problematic when humans justify harming animals simply because they are less intelligent. I used the example of humans shooting wolves for sport. If a vastly more intelligent lifeform came to this planet and decided to shoot humans for sport because they considered us “lesser”, how can we say they shouldn’t do that when we do it to animals we consider “lesser”.

You may say that we could rise up and overthrow these aliens, but the fact is, if they are that much more intelligent and capable of intergalactic travel, we may be fucked. They would most likely have have weapons that would render us defenseless. Especially if these aliens weren’t only mentally superior but physically superior as well.

Imagine if a race of superman like aliens that were also super intelligent came here and viewed us the way we view animals simply for being less intelligent? We’d be fucked.

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[quote]clip11 wrote:
By animals, I mean “higher” animals. Do you think human life is intrinsically more valuable than animal life? If so, why?

I’ve heard it said that human life is more valuable than animal life simply because humans have superior mental abilities and can reason. But by that same token, what if there was an alien race vastly more intelligent than humans and with mental abilities we humans didn’t have, would that that make the lives of those aliens worth more than our lives? Suppose those aliens thought so and felt they could do whatever they pleased with us or even kill us because, to them, we are “animals” and they felt they had more intrinsic value than us due to their intelligence.[/quote]

What, like slavery and genocide?

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[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I believe humans are more valuable because there is something inside of us that makes us special. Let’s look at the chimp, out closest comparison…I guess. Look at what humans have accomplished, just a small example here. We have created a small hand held device that allows us to access all known information to man in a matter of seconds. If you stop and think about what all human beings have done it is really mind blowing. What the fuck has a chimp done? Learned sign language that we taught it. Went into space on a ROCKET SHIP that we built.

[/quote]

You’re missing my question. You keep saying human life is more valuable because of technology we’ve created. You’re judging the value of human life based on intelligence, which is arbitrary. If we based it off physical strength, a lion’s life or a bear’s life would be more valuable than a human life.

But on that note, I’m asking, if say a vastly more intelligent alien race came along, with vastly superior technology and they believed their lives hold more value than human life based off of greater intelligence, how would you defend the position that your life is just as important and meaningful as the life of a member of this alien race?

What if this alien race indiscriminately killed humans in order to harvest human genitals solely for the motive of making money and they saw nothing wrong with this because they believed their superior intelligence entitles them to do whatever they want to humans? How can you say this alien race is wrong in what they’re doing?[/quote]

I think I am getting your question just fine. I said I think humans(as a whole) have something inside of us that makes us special. Those were just a couple of examples of a very long list of reasons why I think human life has more value.

On your alien question, I think that humans are so special that it wouldn’t sustain for long. We as humans would rise up and conquer the aliens.

For lack of a better word I believe humans are a divine being.[/quote]

That’s IF we could. We could be talking about aliens that are like Supermen compared to us.[/quote]

You’re missing my answers to your original questions. Superman has kryptonite. We could go back and forth like this for a while. I think if we were invaded by a superior alien species we could overcome them.

So what do you think? Do you really believe that a humans life has no more value than an animal?

[/quote]

I don’t think it has more intrinsic value, only the value we give it. I do have a problem on arbitrarily picking a trait and stating that since we have more of that trait, human life is more valuable than animal life. Because if we use intelligence as a measure, then you have to say, in order to be logically consistent, that if some lifeform more intelligent than humans came along, there life would be worth more than human life.

It is also problematic when humans justify harming animals simply because they are less intelligent. I used the example of humans shooting wolves for sport. If a vastly more intelligent lifeform came to this planet and decided to shoot humans for sport because they considered us “lesser”, how can we say they shouldn’t do that when we do it to animals we consider “lesser”.

You may say that we could rise up and overthrow these aliens, but the fact is, if they are that much more intelligent and capable of intergalactic travel, we may be fucked. They would most likely have have weapons that would render us defenseless. Especially if these aliens weren’t only mentally superior but physically superior as well.

Imagine if a race of superman like aliens that were also super intelligent came here and viewed us the way we view animals simply for being less intelligent? We’d be fucked.
[/quote]

Humans as a whole do not kill animals because they are not as intelligent as us. As a whole humans kill animals because cows=beef, chicken=chicken, etc. You do understand that if humans didn’t kill animals FOR FOOD you would not be here right now? Most humans do not agree with killing wolves for the fun of it, and in most states it is illegal. There are cases where an animal has overpopulated and humans can kill them to provide balance. Hogs for example. And for your alien scenario that you keep bringing up… I will relate it too the settlers and buffalo. I don’t think it was the right thing to do to kill so many buffalo to put them pretty much into extinction.

On a side note, humans establish laws to protect animals that are less intelligent to protect them from said extinction.

So to give you my final answers to your questions.

  1. Yes, I think human life is more valuable than other animals.
  2. No, I do not think it would be ok for an alien race to come here and start killing us.