Howard Dean

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

BostonBarrister wrote:
100meters wrote:
:slight_smile:
Seeing how the conservative agenda/philosophy has now got to be totally debunked (Bush’s most advertised stat: Record Housing!—uhh…mr.president we’ve had record housing, just about every year since the statistic was first started) You’d basically have to be smoking crack to vote for a conservative—uhmm ever?

Unless, your rich–filthy rich–then you’ve got a reason–I guess, except choosing moral bankruptcy would be hard—but your rich! who cares about morals when you’ve got oodles of cash, and more comin’ your way in the form of HUGE tax breaks–just sell some more “worthless IOU’s”!

I suppose the fact that we’ve been in an economic expansion for the past few years hasn’t intruded on your reality? Nor the fact that the claims I’ve heard them make w/r/t housing had to do with record percentage of home ownership, particularly among minorities.

BTW, how long do Presidential/Congressional economic policies generally take for their effects to be felt in the economy?[/quote]
Record home ownership! BIG WHOOP! Every president gets to say that. And are we not feeling it now? (Gee have you noticed the debt?—Are you pretending to not know the consequences of this admins actions involving spending, and borrowing? Were the taxbreaks given worth the cost—remember it was gonna create 6 million jobs about 3 years ago.) Do we not have a larger govt now? Spending more? Borrowing more? What class of society has benefited most in the last 5 years? Healthcare??? since he snowed voters with the tort reform—net result on health insurance-ZERO!–were’re still screwed there—seriously I know you have to be disappointed B.B.–there is NOTHING conservative about this admin—NOTHING taxing less and Welfare to boot! GUNS, BUTTER, and Taxcuts–c’mon! I mean just the fact that were at war, and their still pushing more cuts is just unbelievable!

42

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Many of the liberals on this forum have attempted to make fun of Jeff. However, when he writes whigs=democrats he might be more prophetic than most give him credit for.

Is it difficult to imagine the democrats losing one more Presidential election (especially with Dean as Chairman and Hillary as candidate)? At the same time the democrats could be giving up yet several more seats in both houses of Congress?

Is it not equally easy to imagine President Bush appointing the next two or perhaps three Supreme Court Justices?

How important will the democrats become if the above scenario does in fact develop?

Most of the liberals on this forum are selling Jeff R short. The democratic party of today could indeed become like the whigs of another era, and in fact might just be on their way!

[/quote]

I think he gets made fun of because he the classic PIPA study republican, i.e. believing things that are not true. Remember Jeff was comparing the safety of large U.S. cities to Iraq! Whoa Nelly! It’s scary that Jeff actually votes believing this kind of crap.

43

[quote]100meters wrote:
I think he gets made fun of because he the classic PIPA study republican, i.e. believing things that are not true. Remember Jeff was comparing the safety of large U.S. cities to Iraq! Whoa Nelly! It’s scary that Jeff actually votes believing this kind of crap.[/quote]

This is made all the more funny by the fact that the Republican party now dominates government at both the state and federal level, and the margin keeps increasing as the dems keep putting forward candidates who think and talk like this to be their frontmen.

This is a formula for losing again and again and again. No matter how high your blood pressure gets and no matter how obtuse you are, you don’t get elected by being the most out of touch with voters.

44

[quote]hedo wrote:
So why can’t most liberal democrats be as honest as Howard Dean? It’s not as if they don’t vote for cradle-to-the-grave-socialism at every opportunity anyway. They believe in high taxes, big government, burdensome regulation, & state control of ever growing sectors of the economy, so why not admit it?

Republicans admit that they’re capitalists, so why can’t Democrats be as honest as Howard Dean is being? You Dems are never going to convince a majority of the American people that you’re right if you don’t have the guts to be up front about what you believe in…
[/quote]

Exactly right. The Republicans – er… the democrats need more folks like Howard Dean headlining the democrat party.

45

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I suppose the fact that we’ve been in an economic expansion for the past few years hasn’t intruded on your reality? [/quote]

We’re in an economic expansion? News to me. Still waiting for that grant money. Don’t scientific and technological breakthroughs help fuel the economy? I’m just wondering where the future economic growth is going to come from. China, Japan, South Korea, Europe? Oh wait, Iraqi oil fields.

46

As a person in the scientific community I appreciate having Howard Dean as head of the DNC (btw, I’m a registered green). I like the fact that he can stand up and shout and make the rest of the dems uncomfortable. I became a green because I felt the dems have lost touch with their '60s roots. Unlike most dems who want a more moderate party I want a more liberal party. I want a party as liberal as GW’s republicans are conservative.

What happened to the party that cared abut the common person’s rights? Now we have terms like compassionate conservative to describe people like W? Everyone knows compassion has never been a major trait of the republican party. It’s time the dems take back that title from conservative America.

47

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What happened to the party that cared abut the common person’s rights? Now we have terms like compassionate conservative to describe people like W? Everyone knows compassion has never been a major trait of the republican party. [/quote]

Yes, you’re right. It’s far more compassionate to teach that you should give up your rights and property to be taken care of by someone else who doesn’t even know you, than teaching personal empowerment and responsibility.

Compassion never been a trait of Republicans… hmmm… Like freeing the slaves against ardent democrat opposition? Like voting in a higher percentage than the dems for the Civil Rights Act? Like teaching that there is no such thing as “the common man”? Like teaching people to lift themselves up instead of waiting for Lenin to do it?

48

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
We’re in an economic expansion? News to me. Still waiting for that grant money.
[/quote]

Subtitle: Why Stalin was as successful as he was.

49

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
I suppose the fact that we’ve been in an economic expansion for the past few years hasn’t intruded on your reality?

We’re in an economic expansion? News to me. Still waiting for that grant money. Don’t scientific and technological breakthroughs help fuel the economy? I’m just wondering where the future economic growth is going to come from. China, Japan, South Korea, Europe? Oh wait, Iraqi oil fields.

[/quote]

The economy goes in cycles. We are in an economic growth period but it is smaller than the hyper growth of the 90’s.

The 90’s stock market hyper growth proved to be a bubble. Give me slow growth any day.

50

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
…
What happened to the party that cared abut the common person’s rights? Now we have terms like compassionate conservative to describe people like W? Everyone knows compassion has never been a major trait of the republican party. It’s time the dems take back that title from conservative America.[/quote]

You have that right. Much as the Republicans had sold their soul to big business, the Democrat have sold their sole to trial lawyers, unions and other special interests.

I do not trust either party.

I would like to see the Democrats find their way again so we can have a little more balance.

51

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Unlike most dems who want a more moderate party I want a more liberal party.
[/quote]

As a conservative – I couldn’t agree more!!! The more liberal you get, the less national your party will become. If you go further left, then you can win MA, NY, and CA and the republicans can win everything else. Keep on with the deans and even go further to the naders, so that the democrats can be replaced by a new party that wants to win elections.

As a citizen – this is the dumbest possible thing that the dems could do, but maybe it needs to happen if that’s where they’re really at so that their party can crash. We need a viable second party in our system to check the things I don’t agree with the Republicans on – like stem cell research, fiscal policy, immigration, coddling the french and the mexican governments, etc.

A move to the left would sink the ship, maybe forever. Hippies, college professors, the recently dead, transsexuals, self-proclaimed “intellectuals”, listeners to Air America, Chinese intelligence agents, professional protesters/ the chronically unemployed, drug addicts, Californians with fireplaces, green party members, convicted felons, traitors, union reps, communists, senators from the KKK hierarchy, people that need baths and haircuts and no incense and no pachouli oil, SAAB drivers, perpetual victims, NPR reporters, people who wear clothes made out of hemp, Black Panthers, wearers of black turtlenecks, and race-baiters might be loud but there are still very few of you!!!

52

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Yes, you’re right. It’s far more compassionate to teach that you should give up your rights and property to be taken care of by someone else who doesn’t even know you, than teaching personal empowerment and responsibility.
[/quote]

The republican party didn’t teach me personal responsibility and empowerment–my parents did. Saying republicans are the only people who can is very ignorant.

53

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Compassion never been a trait of Republicans… hmmm… Like freeing the slaves against ardent democrat opposition? Like voting in a higher percentage than the dems for the Civil Rights Act? Like teaching that there is no such thing as “the common man”? Like teaching people to lift themselves up instead of waiting for Lenin to do it?

[/quote]

Republicans didn’t free slaves out of compassion–they freed the slave out of fear that the south had an unfair advantage with free labor. In case you don’t remember the southern democratic states were extremly dependant on slave labour.

Don’t confuse two issues. I’m talking about issues relative to the millenium I live in.

54

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The economy goes in cycles. We are in an economic growth period but it is smaller than the hyper growth of the 90’s.

The 90’s stock market hyper growth proved to be a bubble. Give me slow growth any day.
[/quote]

I don’t think there is going to be anymore growth with the current trend of underfnding research.

55

[quote]JeffR wrote:
As a conservative – I couldn’t agree more!!! The more liberal you get, the less national your party will become. If you go further left, then you can win MA, NY, and CA and the republicans can win everything else. Keep on with the deans and even go further to the naders, so that the democrats can be replaced by a new party that wants to win elections.

As a citizen – this is the dumbest possible thing that the dems could do, but maybe it needs to happen if that’s where they’re really at so that their party can crash. We need a viable second party in our system to check the things I don’t agree with the Republicans on – like stem cell research, fiscal policy, immigration, coddling the french and the mexican governments, etc.

A move to the left would sink the ship, maybe forever. Hippies, college professors, the recently dead, transsexuals, self-proclaimed “intellectuals”, listeners to Air America, Chinese intelligence agents, professional protesters/ the chronically unemployed, drug addicts, Californians with fireplaces, green party members, convicted felons, traitors, union reps, communists, senators from the KKK hierarchy, people that need baths and haircuts and no incense and no pachouli oil, SAAB drivers, perpetual victims, NPR reporters, people who wear clothes made out of hemp, Black Panthers, wearers of black turtlenecks, and race-baiters might be loud but there are still very few of you!!! [/quote]

Interesting paradox. A democratic shift to the left destroys America but a republican shift to the right strengthens it. If you don’t agree with your own party on issues shouldn’t you want to shift parties or change them internally? The two party system is what really destroys this country.

56

Liftusmaxiumus/thinkusminimus:

“Republicans didn’t free slaves out of compassion–they freed the slave out of fear that the south had an unfair advantage with free labor.”

Well!!! Where did you pull that one from?

What the hell.

Miss the whole “Abolitionist movement” thing?

Or how about the whole “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” phenomena.

Oh, by the way, even with the slaves, the North had three times more people than the South.

Oh, per capita, you need to look into how much more productive the North was.

Slave labor=unwilling laborers=less productivity.

Argue that one, comrade.

“In case you don’t remember the southern democratic states were extremly dependant on slave labour.”

No shit. Hence, less productive.

“Don’t confuse two issues. I’m talking about issues relative to the millenium I live in.”

Nice turn of phrase, dimwit.

I would argue that the compassion of Republicans is germaine to every era.

Not to mention people like Marion Barry say things like, “Lincoln wasn’t a Republican.”

History baby!!! Need to read some. Need to establish patterns!!!

Oh, hell. I’ll take it if you just read once in a while.

I’m not that picky.

Oh, Green party!!! Fantastic!!!

JeffR

57

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The economy goes in cycles. We are in an economic growth period but it is smaller than the hyper growth of the 90’s.

The 90’s stock market hyper growth proved to be a bubble. Give me slow growth any day.

I don’t think there is going to be anymore growth with the current trend of underfnding research.

[/quote]

Funding research is a small part of our economy. Of course if you are recieving the funding it looks big to you.

The benefits of research certainly help fuel the economy, but it is a shared responsibility, not just that of the US taxpayer.

Look at pharmacueticals. Most of the rest of the world has price caps on drugs forcing the US consumer to spend more in order to keep research funding going. The Republicans at least try to acknowledge this issue. The Democrats try to ignore it.

58

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Interesting paradox. A democratic shift to the left destroys America but a republican shift to the right strengthens it. If you don’t agree with your own party on issues shouldn’t you want to shift parties or change them internally? The two party system is what really destroys this country.
[/quote]

It’s been 230 years, we’re bigger, stronger, and richer than ever before.

What’s being destroyed, again?

59

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Republicans didn’t free slaves out of compassion–they freed the slave out of fear that the south had an unfair advantage with free labor. In case you don’t remember the southern democratic states were extremly dependant on slave labour.

[/quote]

Quite possibly the dumbest post I have ever read in regards to the civil war.

This reminds me of a friend of mine, who is working on his PhD and researches some obscure toxin at a state university. While discussing politics (he is an ardent liberal of course), he mentioned that the more education he got, the dumber everyone else seemed, especially in regards to politics (did I mention that he was a democrat?)

Now I knew this guy in college. He was a science major and not at all politcally involved. His grasp of history was about at the level of the above post – 0. Languages, political science, llterature, current events: very shaky to nonexistent. Not well- travelled. Never worked at any level other than 18th level underling.

And yet, his soon-to-be-PhD in an obscure research field made him an authority and illuminated his poltical views above that of other people. Like liftusminimus, I don’t think he realized how stupid that made him sound.

60

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Interesting paradox. A democratic shift to the left destroys America but a republican shift to the right strengthens it. If you don’t agree with your own party on issues shouldn’t you want to shift parties or change them internally? The two party system is what really destroys this country.

[/quote]

Who was advocating a shift to the far right on this board?

I seem to remember the john kerrys of the Republican party running for president. Alan Keyes, Pat Buchanan, the little conservative munchkin who ran in 2000, etc. They were ditched when it was realized that the fringe doesn’t win elections.

You want to see a country destroyed? Vote green!