[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Jeez, I take a little break and come back to find that all of my friends except Emily are pervs! (And she’s sleeping with a perv!)
Testy seems safe, but he’s not really my friend. (Joking, joking!)
AC, I’m intrigued by your view that you don’t manipulate anyone. How does that square with your often-described “find their emotional pressure points to get what you want” strategy?
And don’t you rage at me, or I’ll tell Dave on you! 
I’m genuinely looking for your thoughts here.[/quote]
I’m curious to hear AC’s feedback here, too. I’m inclined to think there’s some cognitive dissonance at play, but perhaps I’m misunderstanding.
I suppose I am sleeping with a perv, but it’s so much fun. And waking up with one is just as nice!
[/quote]
I don’t know, maybe I’m mellowing out in my old age, but at this point in my life, I really have no “agenda” with anyone. I’m really focusing on my career, which is VERY challenging and rewarding along with making sure my kids are on the right track (I have a son that is in first grade and a son who is a senior in HS). I simply don’t have the time to date that I used to.
Also, I think you have me painted with a rather “Machiavellian” brush… While I did take a little detour in life to study “The Game”, that was almost a decade ago. And the only reason I did it in the first place was because one of my best friends was into it (as in he actually created products and gave seminars). I was pretty much what “they” (meaning PUA’s) would call a “natural”. When I learned some of that material, it merely “named” and “labeled” things that I already knew and did. I did find some value in a lot of the material that focused on personal evolution, but I would say that over 90% of the “game material” you find on the internet is bullshit designed to take keyboard jockey’s money.
Did I read a lot about evolutionary biology and psychology? Yes I did. Did I apply some concepts to some things I was already involved in (the Mankind Project)? Yup. But all that means is that I gained a very in depth understanding of social dynamics. I “see” people’s motivations and emotional triggers just as plain as you see the words typed on this page. I “see” the “matrix” of social interaction and have a context to influence the interaction SLIGHTLY - it’s not like I’m a hypnotist or anything… That’s no more “manipulative” than buying a girl flowers or a drink, or paying her excessive compliments to get her to like you… No one seems to complain about men who do THAT (besides the fact that it doesn’t work LOL).
What I know and what I do isn’t “evil”, “manipulative” or “negative”. No amount of “game” is going to make a woman sleep with you if she isn’t attracted to you. I’ve focused on making myself and my life a work of constant evolution. I’ve been moving in a positive direction for twenty years. Some people find that attractive, some people don’t. I certainly can’t walk into a bar, point to a random woman and accurately say, “I’m going to sleep with THAT one” and then work some manipulative magic trick that somehow convinces them to fall into my bed… I just start a conversation and talk to them, listen to them and ask open ended questions while developing a rapport.
Is that any more manipulative that guys that post pictures of themselves snowboarding or rock climbing? Basically, all they are saying is, “look at me! I’m adventurous!”. I don’t have a facebook or anything, so I present my strengths and skill sets more subtly, which, I would submit for your consideration, is a more powerful way to do it. That fact sub communicates MANY positive things… So am I being “manipulative” or “exploiting weakness” by doing so? I would argue that I’m being more authentic than the average bear…
Couple that with the fact that I NEVER lie to people to get what I want (lies have short legs and it’s far more trouble than it’s worth) and I say I’d have to take exception to your assertion that I have a “find their emotional pressure points to get what you want” strategy. In fact I don’t believe I’ve ever typed those words, or if I did, it was in a specific context and not my over all world view AT ALL…
I have a golden rule when it comes to relationships: I do everything in my power to make sure a woman is BETTER in some way for having known me. I play win:win. I do NOT want the karma/drama of leaving a trail of broken women in my wake. Have I EVER had relationships that ended badly? Sure have. Do I take pains to ensure that the frequency of that is less and less? Sure do.
The bottom line is I’m a fun guy who’s easy on the eyes, has bit of disposable income, has a wealth of life experience and I’m a very good communicator. A lot of women find that attractive. So should I turn DOWN women who want to sleep with me so I’m not judged by people who live a more traditional lifestyle? Or should I have fun, enjoy life and keep on moving and evolving and learning and having great experiences? I know what I want and I know where I’m going and I communicate it very clearly. I don’t think I’m experiencing cognitive dissonance and I don’t see how my actions could be so “offensive”…
If you ask most of the women I’ve dated, they’ll tell you I’m a great guy and that they had a great time with me.[/quote]
Thanks for the lengthy response.
FTR, I never thought you were trying to work “evil” on others, have expressed respect for you several times, and look forward to us actually meeting someday (as we surely will).
Having said that, I hope we can discuss this in person someday, so I can explain the nuances of my view, and not have to worry about coming off as attacking in any way.
Thanks again.[/quote]
I would second this as well. There is no lack of respect on my part or belief that you’re doing anything malicious, AC. I believe that you’ve worked very hard to become something of a renaissance man. As someone similarly invested in personal growth, I admire that. I have also used tools I’ve gained from you to work with young men.
Like Chushin, I see nuances that I feel you do not (specifically relating to women and relationships) that come from my own experiences and studies here on the other side of the gender aisle. That’s all.
I am NEVER after insulting you. Just respectful discourse about matters I share an interest in.
