Karado, although you have a funny way of saying things, I disagree.
And when I was a fetus, I admit that I was worthless. Now I’m a full grown human, which makes me not worthless.
Bee_Brian Typed: "Karado, although you have a funny way of saying things, I disagree.
And when I was a fetus, I admit that I was worthless. Now I’m a full grown human, which makes me not worthless"
Okay if you’re not worthless…how much?
Maybe we can get a number from you to get an answer on how valuable
life is so we can begin to see the end of this fuckin’ thread already.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Bee_Brian typed: “I believe the fetus is a worthless pile of organic material”.
That’s funny, your Mother didn’t think so…she knew there was life in that worthless pile and had you anyway.
he also typed: “If you were given the choice of saving a chimpanzee’s life over a fetus’s life, you, in my opinion, would be more humane to save the life of a chimpanzee”.
Well I’m sure that would be the case if you fucked the Chimp and you were the father, which I would bet it
wouldn’t be successful anyway…but HEY, it can’t hurt to try if your into that shit.
[/quote]
You crack me up Karado. A real lol here and +1 interweb pointz for you.
[quote]Bee_Brian wrote:
which makes me not worthless.[/quote]
I disagree.
[quote]Bee_Brian wrote:
I believe the fetus is a worthless pile of organic material.
[/quote]
Well, I suppose you can classify any organic material, including all human life. It doesn’t matter what you believe, except for one thing, you are ok with taking human life, or you are not. You can believe what you want, but you cannot prove the fetus is not a unique human life. If you think that a unique human life is worthless organic material I cannot do anything about that. But you have to include yourself in that classification. You’re one of 7 billion, really what does it matter if you die? There’s plenty to replace you.
[quote]Bee_Brian wrote:
Karado, although you have a funny way of saying things, I disagree.
And when I was a fetus, I admit that I was worthless. Now I’m a full grown human, which makes me not worthless.[/quote]
What makes you worth something now? Technically, you’re replaceable. Your parents can have other kids, your loved ones can love others, other people can do your job, other people can do pretty much anything you do.
You are as replaceable as that worthless clump of organic matter known as a human life in the fetal stage.
It goes for all of us.
With the exception of my exceptional PWI prowess, I am replaceable in all facets of life.
I am simply pointing out, as most pro-abortionists do is you introduced a slippery slope.
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
[quote]espenl wrote:
The common opinion at least among the religious here seems to be that life is sacred, and should be allowed to be born regardless, which is its right. Does that right also extend to not have their foreskin lopped off after being born, or is then the parents that can decide over its life after not having a say in it before the birth?[/quote]
So you are telling us that it is sinful to take a foreskin at 8 days but permissible to kill a child at 8 months? A fetus at 8 weeks?
[/quote]
I dont use the word sin as it only has meaning to the religious. What I am saying is that if we are to say life is sacred and to be protected until it can fend for itself, it should be spared from getting parts of its dick chopped off until it is old enough to make the choice.
[quote]espenl wrote:
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
[quote]espenl wrote:
The common opinion at least among the religious here seems to be that life is sacred, and should be allowed to be born regardless, which is its right. Does that right also extend to not have their foreskin lopped off after being born, or is then the parents that can decide over its life after not having a say in it before the birth?[/quote]
So you are telling us that it is sinful to take a foreskin at 8 days but permissible to kill a child at 8 months? A fetus at 8 weeks?
[/quote]
I dont use the word sin as it only has meaning to the religious. What I am saying is that if we are to say life is sacred and to be protected until it can fend for itself, it should be spared from getting parts of its dick chopped off until it is old enough to make the choice.[/quote]
But the dick is still fully functional. And studies have shown people that have been circumcised have fewer UTIs than non circumcised. It is for the benefit of the child.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Bee_Brian wrote:
I believe the fetus is a worthless pile of organic material.
[/quote]
You’re one of 7 billion, really what does it matter if you die?
[/quote]
It doesn’t.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Bee_Brian wrote:
Karado, although you have a funny way of saying things, I disagree.
And when I was a fetus, I admit that I was worthless. Now I’m a full grown human, which makes me not worthless.[/quote]
What makes you worth something now? Technically, you’re replaceable. Your parents can have other kids, your loved ones can love others, other people can do your job, other people can do pretty much anything you do.
You are as replaceable as that worthless clump of organic matter known as a human life in the fetal stage.
It goes for all of us.
With the exception of my exceptional PWI prowess, I am replaceable in all facets of life.
I am simply pointing out, as most pro-abortionists do is you introduced a slippery slope. [/quote]
Maybe you overlooked something? The thing is there are slippery slopes all over the place which come as a result of what it is specifically we value about human life, and how we define human life.
If it’s about human life, as in cells then you have to treat things like grafted ears grown on pigs, and organs grown in petri dishes, in vitro fertilizations as valuable human life.
In the case of in vitro fertilizations there are usually several eggs fertilized, which means potential humans. So what do you think about those things given several of the eggs will be discarded either by the doctor or the human body? Usually both occur (body rejecting or absorbing) and the doctor getting rid of excess.
What do you think about pregnant women who maybe don’t take very good care of themselves and have miscarriages? Should they be put on trail for some degree’s of murder/manslaughter? I know of cases where criminals are charged with double murder for killing pregnant women so the crazy ass precedent is there for a crazy lawyer to play with. If you stick to your guns you have to have a position on this…
Just wondering how and what it is you value about human life. I’m curious to know, as most times when I hear religious folk talk about what it is about life they value, I too find slippery slopes that they aren’t comfortable with. It’s always based on how and what they define as valuable.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
It is for the benefit of the child.
[/quote]
Except when it gets infected, disfigured or dies from the procedure.
[quote]espenl wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
It is for the benefit of the child.
[/quote]
Except when it gets infected, disfigured or dies from the procedure.[/quote]
Or herpes.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6898403/#.UnowCflQGSo
For the record, though, I’m on their side. You make decisions for your children, who are too caught up in drooling and giggling to make the decisions themselves.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]espenl wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
It is for the benefit of the child.
[/quote]
Except when it gets infected, disfigured or dies from the procedure.[/quote]
Or herpes.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6898403/#.UnowCflQGSo
For the record, though, I’m on their side. You make decisions for your children, who are too caught up in drooling and giggling to make the decisions themselves.[/quote]
But there are drawbacks as well. For one, you may not know this but throughout your lifetime you kill quite a few nerve cells just walking around when circumcised, that means less pleasure during intercourse.
Otherwise, there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that dudes that get cut end up smaller than they would had they not been cut. Sometimes it’s not anecdotal at all and doctors mistake. Want a big ugly or a little ugly? Sure, some kids may make fun of your sons, but when they get older they will thank you.
Food for thought:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/prevention/research/malecircumcision/
Summary
Male circumcision reduces the risk that a man will acquire HIV from an infected female partner, and also lowers the risk of other STDs , penile cancer, and infant urinary tract infection.
For female partners, male circumcision reduces the risk of cervical cancer, genital ulceration, bacterial vaginosis, trichomoniasis, and HPV. Although male circumcision has risks including pain, bleeding, and infection, more serious complications are rare.
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]espenl wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
It is for the benefit of the child.
[/quote]
Except when it gets infected, disfigured or dies from the procedure.[/quote]
Or herpes.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6898403/#.UnowCflQGSo
For the record, though, I’m on their side. You make decisions for your children, who are too caught up in drooling and giggling to make the decisions themselves.[/quote]
But there are drawbacks as well. For one, you may not know this but throughout your lifetime you kill quite a few nerve cells just walking around when circumcised, that means less pleasure during intercourse.
Otherwise, there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that dudes that get cut end up smaller than they would had they not been cut. Sometimes it’s not anecdotal at all and doctors mistake. Want a big ugly or a little ugly? Sure, some kids may make fun of your sons, but when they get older they will thank you.
[/quote]
If gettin’ down were any more pleasurable for most of us, we wouldn’t be able to hold a job.
Joking aside, I understand that there are drawbacks. There are also drawbacks to being uncircumcised. Higher probability of contracting STI, for one. If every African male were circumcised, there would be fewer people living with HIV on that continent.
Which is why I say it’s the parent’s choice.
[quote]espenl wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
It is for the benefit of the child.
[/quote]
Except when it gets infected, disfigured or dies from the procedure.[/quote]
You have any statistics that back up the percentages of children that are negatively affected by circumcision compared to the children that are negatively affected by not having circumcision?
I am not looking at this in an religious context what so ever. Just the physical nature of it and the pros and cons of the procedure. I have spoken to many pediatric doctors that say the pros out weigh the cons unless you have a religious aspect to the procedure.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Bee_Brian wrote:
Karado, although you have a funny way of saying things, I disagree.
And when I was a fetus, I admit that I was worthless. Now I’m a full grown human, which makes me not worthless.[/quote]
What makes you worth something now? Technically, you’re replaceable. Your parents can have other kids, your loved ones can love others, other people can do your job, other people can do pretty much anything you do.
You are as replaceable as that worthless clump of organic matter known as a human life in the fetal stage.
It goes for all of us.
With the exception of my exceptional PWI prowess, I am replaceable in all facets of life.
I am simply pointing out, as most pro-abortionists do is you introduced a slippery slope. [/quote]
Maybe you overlooked something? The thing is there are slippery slopes all over the place which come as a result of what it is specifically we value about human life, and how we define human life.
If it’s about human life, as in cells then you have to treat things like grafted ears grown on pigs, and organs grown in petri dishes, in vitro fertilizations as valuable human life.
In the case of in vitro fertilizations there are usually several eggs fertilized, which means potential humans. So what do you think about those things given several of the eggs will be discarded either by the doctor or the human body? Usually both occur (body rejecting or absorbing) and the doctor getting rid of excess.
What do you think about pregnant women who maybe don’t take very good care of themselves and have miscarriages? Should they be put on trail for some degree’s of murder/manslaughter? I know of cases where criminals are charged with double murder for killing pregnant women so the crazy ass precedent is there for a crazy lawyer to play with. If you stick to your guns you have to have a position on this…
Just wondering how and what it is you value about human life. I’m curious to know, as most times when I hear religious folk talk about what it is about life they value, I too find slippery slopes that they aren’t comfortable with. It’s always based on how and what they define as valuable.
[/quote]
Mental gymnastics that attempt to rationalize murder don’t change the cold hard facts.
[/quote]
Still waiting for someone to answer the question.
What is it about life you value? What is human life? And why? What would the consequences of such be to laws and such if you were Emperor?
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]espenl wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
It is for the benefit of the child.
[/quote]
Except when it gets infected, disfigured or dies from the procedure.[/quote]
Or herpes.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6898403/#.UnowCflQGSo
For the record, though, I’m on their side. You make decisions for your children, who are too caught up in drooling and giggling to make the decisions themselves.[/quote]
But there are drawbacks as well. For one, you may not know this but throughout your lifetime you kill quite a few nerve cells just walking around when circumcised, that means less pleasure during intercourse.
Otherwise, there’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that dudes that get cut end up smaller than they would had they not been cut. Sometimes it’s not anecdotal at all and doctors mistake. Want a big ugly or a little ugly? Sure, some kids may make fun of your sons, but when they get older they will thank you.
[/quote]
If gettin’ down were any more pleasurable for most of us, we wouldn’t be able to hold a job.
Joking aside, I understand that there are drawbacks. There are also drawbacks to being uncircumcised. Higher probability of contracting STI, for one. If every African male were circumcised, there would be fewer people living with HIV on that continent.
Which is why I say it’s the parent’s choice.[/quote]
Good points. I think I’d consider it if I were raising boys abroad for safety, but otherwise I feel kinda like it should be up to them, after they have had a few girlfriends. I got teased, but that went away rather quickly as I got older.