How To Invest $12,000?

Off Topic
61

[quote]tedro wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
The Federal government is limited to coining the money. What the money is for the states is up for the individual state to decide. The founding fathers new Fiat was worthless, which is why the constitution is strictly against bills of credit.
[/quote]

Again, absolutely backwards. First congress isn’t limited to coining money, it is granted the power to coin money. The states have no say in this, as outlined in section 10. Second, it is only the states that are forbidden from emitting bills of credit. Third, the continental dollar was fiat. Who do you think issued this currency? The continental congress perhaps? You are aware that this congress was the direct predecessor to our current consitution aren’t you, and was made up largely by those we now call the founding fathers?

The reason this dollar failed was, as you would expect, inflation. Partly due to printing too much, partly due to counterfiets. If you want to prevent this from happening, you simply quit printing. Don’t peg your currency to another currency, that’s nonsensical. Just quit printing it. Add an ammendment or pass a law that limits the amount that can be printed, open up the fed’s books. Few here will argue that our dollar doesn’t have its problems, but coming off the gold standard is not the root of the problem, the printing press is. Like I said earlier, no need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

[quote]
You will see why they did it this way really soon. When the commercial real estate market crashes and California is forced to default you will see why they feared fiat money.[/quote]

Again, more talking points. Can you tell anybody here why you fear the downfall of western civilization without linking to youtube?[/quote]

What the constitution grants is what the Federal government is aloud to do. It grants it the ability to coin money so it can only coin money and regulate the value. Think of it this way, the founders wanted government as local as possible, finances control government that is why you have states choose if they want gold or silver. They then get the federal government to coin the money and it goes back to the states.

Who says western civilization is going to fall? We have 8115 metric tons of Gold, a huge reserve of oil and coal. We will be fine but out fiat dollar is going to collapse.

It will start when the commercial real estate bubble pops. When that happens California will be forced to default. You saw what happened to the euro with Greece.

62

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

Did you short sub-prime mortages?

Did you ride copper up after it bottomed?

Did you catch the bounce on corp. bonds?

You make a case all over these boards for what you think, now tell us what you’ve done.[/quote]

I am brand new to the market, the people I am listening to called the .com bubble and the sub-prime bubble.

the OP is asking what is the best investment he could make with this money, I think having 12 grand worth of inflation protection is probably a good thing with helicopter Ben in charge.[/quote]

Did they also call the advance following the . com bubble?

Look, I’m not trying to bust your chops. You might be right, and I’ll even go further and say inflation protection is a good thing. But why gold? Most commodities priced in dollars will provide fine inflation protection and have the added protection of being useful if you are wrong and instead of inflation we get moderate economic growth.

Lots of people are right about the economy every so often but very, very few are right consistently. The guys who preach doom and gloom are going to be right at times and horribly wrong at others.

It seems to be that the guys who consistently hit their targets do not consider the worst case senario to be reasonable.

Given that, wouldn’t other commodities be a more reasonable investment?

Also frankly, in the worst of worst senarios, if the dollar ever becomes really worthless having gold isn’t going to save most people because stronger and better armed people will take it from them and people with food and supplies will not be willing to trade their valuable goods for a hunk of worthless yellow metal.

I understand gold’s importance through out history but gold does rely on a certain level of civilization to have any value. If your really worried about total collapse buy guns. Otherwise there are much better and more flexible investments.

As for the 12,000, I’m no expert but I’d buy adjustable rate convertable bonds issued by commodities producers.

63

My contribution to the conversation is refuting your stupid ass advice… Do you really not comprehend what is being talked about here?

12,000 is peanuts. He should pay down debt and have an emergency fund. Period.

OP should also consider investing in an education as he isn’t the brightest bulb in the box, maybe you guys can share a text book.

Fucking face palm, why do you refuse to look at historical data and understand that statement is statistically, and historically flat fucking wrong? Gold bought today has a very good chance of being worth LESS tomorrow. Again, you are chasing the market and too blind to see it.

64

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

As for the 12,000, I’m no expert but I’d buy adjustable rate convertable bonds issued by commodities producers.

[/quote]

It’s funny you are not the only one to mention corp bonds lately. I’m personally weary of convertible, only because I don’t need anymore money in stocks than I already have.

Interesting enough though, that after all this shit people are still pushing investing in debt.

I mean I get it, lending/borrowing has to keep happening, but we need to be careful not to end up where we were. Say I bought some Toyota Bonds, I’d be shitting myself today, but 6 months ago would think I made a great choice.

65

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

Did they also call the advance following the . com bubble?

Look, I’m not trying to bust your chops. You might be right, and I’ll even go further and say inflation protection is a good thing. But why gold? Most commodities priced in dollars will provide fine inflation protection and have the added protection of being useful if you are wrong and instead of inflation we get moderate economic growth.

Lots of people are right about the economy every so often but very, very few are right consistently. The guys who preach doom and gloom are going to be right at times and horribly wrong at others.

It seems to be that the guys who consistently hit their targets do not consider the worst case senario to be reasonable.

Given that, wouldn’t other commodities be a more reasonable investment?

Also frankly, in the worst of worst senarios, if the dollar ever becomes really worthless having gold isn’t going to save most people because stronger and better armed people will take it from them and people with food and supplies will not be willing to trade their valuable goods for a hunk of worthless yellow metal.

I understand gold’s importance through out history but gold does rely on a certain level of civilization to have any value. If your really worried about total collapse buy guns. Otherwise there are much better and more flexible investments.

As for the 12,000, I’m no expert but I’d buy adjustable rate convertable bonds issued by commodities producers.

[/quote]

Look at Austrian economists, doom and gloom guys are usually long term traders, which is why as you say they don’t call all the little bumps in the road. But I have found through my research that at the end of the day they are right. If there was any way to call short term trading we would all have yachts and be cruising the Caribbean right now.

The dollar(Continental) collapsed when this country was first founded, we survived then and we will survive now. There is no way in hell to pay off 14 trillion dollars worth of national debt(that is how high it will be at the end of this year).

When I talk about Gold I talk about all commodities. For instance I am poor, so i will be buying poor mans gold(Silver). All i am saying is you have to own real stuff, not something that they can and are printing.

66

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

Did they also call the advance following the . com bubble?

Look, I’m not trying to bust your chops. You might be right, and I’ll even go further and say inflation protection is a good thing. But why gold? Most commodities priced in dollars will provide fine inflation protection and have the added protection of being useful if you are wrong and instead of inflation we get moderate economic growth.

Lots of people are right about the economy every so often but very, very few are right consistently. The guys who preach doom and gloom are going to be right at times and horribly wrong at others.

It seems to be that the guys who consistently hit their targets do not consider the worst case senario to be reasonable.

Given that, wouldn’t other commodities be a more reasonable investment?

Also frankly, in the worst of worst senarios, if the dollar ever becomes really worthless having gold isn’t going to save most people because stronger and better armed people will take it from them and people with food and supplies will not be willing to trade their valuable goods for a hunk of worthless yellow metal.

I understand gold’s importance through out history but gold does rely on a certain level of civilization to have any value. If your really worried about total collapse buy guns. Otherwise there are much better and more flexible investments.

As for the 12,000, I’m no expert but I’d buy adjustable rate convertable bonds issued by commodities producers.

[/quote]

Look at Austrian economists, doom and gloom guys are usually long term traders, which is why as you say they don’t call all the little bumps in the road. But I have found through my research that at the end of the day they are right. If there was any way to call short term trading we would all have yachts and be cruising the Caribbean right now.

The dollar(Continental) collapsed when this country was first founded, we survived then and we will survive now. There is no way in hell to pay off 14 trillion dollars worth of national debt(that is how high it will be at the end of this year).

When I talk about Gold I talk about all commodities. For instance I am poor, so i will be buying poor mans gold(Silver). All i am saying is you have to own real stuff, not something that they can and are printing.
[/quote]

What is your assurance that if all goes to hell, you will find owners of goods that are willing to commerce in your precious metal? Please answer that.

67

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

As for the 12,000, I’m no expert but I’d buy adjustable rate convertable bonds issued by commodities producers.

[/quote]

It’s funny you are not the only one to mention corp bonds lately. I’m personally weary of convertible, only because I don’t need anymore money in stocks than I already have.

Interesting enough though, that after all this shit people are still pushing investing in debt.

I mean I get it, lending/borrowing has to keep happening, but we need to be careful not to end up where we were. Say I bought some Toyota Bonds, I’d be shitting myself today, but 6 months ago would think I made a great choice.[/quote]

Actually I mistyped, I meant adjustable rate bonds but not convertable.

I do agree about the debt but there are some basic commodity producers with pretty good balance sheets and thats more my wheel house right now.

Its more about individual companies now than industries, IMHO.

68

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

Its more about individual companies now than industries, IMHO.[/quote]

I have got to agree. Pretty much everyone normalizes earnings. And in a time like this it gets really hard to keep a bunch of losses hidden. So the proverbial cream will raise to the top.

I guess part of the silver lining from this economic meltdown is it should weed out all the bullshit. (Even though that is a pipe dream.)

Wait till the conversion to IFRS, holy shit show, lol. But I could be getting ahead of myself and there could be a significantly higher amount of convergence still to come.

Good trap development BTW.

69

$12,000.00 is chump change. Don’t expect any big returns on any of the advice.

The first questions should have been how old are you and what kind if any debt do you hold?

70

[quote]John S. wrote:

All i am saying is you have to own real stuff, not something that they can and are printing.
[/quote]

Agreed 100% 12k worth of something is better than nothing.

71

[quote]admbaum wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

All i am saying is you have to own real stuff, not something that they can and are printing.
[/quote]

Agreed 100% 12k worth of something is better than nothing.[/quote]

so by your logic he should buy 12k worth of canned goods and animal futures?

72

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]Rohnyn wrote:
If you had 12 grand and didn’t want to keep in a bank, and wanted it to gain money, how would you invest it?[/quote]

Two chicks at the same time.[/quote]

A friend of mine went to Fiji, lived in a beach hut and paid $2US a day to have 2 women cater to his every need - feed him, bathe him, sex, you name it…

That was 10 years ago, but still…

$2US a day back then is $730US a year for TWO women treating you like a king…

With $12,000US, that equates to a little over 16 years of it…

73

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

What is your assurance that if all goes to hell, you will find owners of goods that are willing to commerce in your precious metal? Please answer that.
[/quote]

China will accept Gold. Most people will accept whatever the government decides is currency. All over the world throughout history people have used precious metals for currency, hell we just got off of it back in 71. We also have a lot of gold, more then anyone in the world. Makes sense just to jump back on that.

Gold is something people all around the world want.

74

http://www.dndguns.com/machineguns_m16s.htm

Any machinegun, that is, if you live in a MG friendly state. Very likely MG prices will never decrease as their is a VERY fixed supply.

You can buy 1 M16 or almost 3 Macs for $12,000.

75

You were planning to “invest” your money by flipping cars?!

If your question the best way to lose your money asap then I’d say go ahead, you’ve got good plan. If, however, you actually meant invest in the sense of handling your money patiently such that you can maximize your returns while minimizing your risk I’d suggest you drop $20 on “The Intelligent Investor” by Benjamin Graham, read it cover to cover, and stop asking for investment advice on a lifting forum.

Really the best thing for you to do since you clearly haven’t done a whole lot (read: none at all) of research is to put it in a CD or index fund and forget about it.

76

1800×2100 258 KB

[quote]John S. wrote:
The dollar(Continental) collapsed when this country was first founded, we survived then and we will survive now. There is no way in hell to pay off 14 trillion dollars worth of national debt(that is how high it will be at the end of this year).
[/quote]

We have been in a much worse position and came out fine. While the time to make drastic changes is quickly approaching and we are failing to fix anything, the debt is still no where near a level that we cannot overcome.

77

[quote]tedro wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
The dollar(Continental) collapsed when this country was first founded, we survived then and we will survive now. There is no way in hell to pay off 14 trillion dollars worth of national debt(that is how high it will be at the end of this year).
[/quote]

We have been in a much worse position and came out fine. While the time to make drastic changes is quickly approaching and we are failing to fix anything, the debt is still no where near a level that we cannot overcome.[/quote]

No doubt, and hedge fund or no, I still put my money in gold when I have money to park for a while.

Money makes money, and money that makes money, makes more money.

78

[quote]tedro wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:
The dollar(Continental) collapsed when this country was first founded, we survived then and we will survive now. There is no way in hell to pay off 14 trillion dollars worth of national debt(that is how high it will be at the end of this year).
[/quote]

We have been in a much worse position and came out fine. While the time to make drastic changes is quickly approaching and we are failing to fix anything, the debt is still no where near a level that we cannot overcome.[/quote]

We overcame that because we had a sound currency. You have Keynesian who think they can spend there way out of anything. Take a look at how much we are spending this year, the deficit spending is expected to be 1.6 trillion. add 10-12% debt/gdp to that debt to GDP chart and you will see where we are right now. Unlike last time we have fiat money. We are going to hyper-inflate to pay the debt off because we are so dead set on not allowing the private sector to create manufacturing jobs.

Lets not also forget that the GDP is based mostly on consumer spending. Our GDP isn’t even sustainable.

79

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

What is your assurance that if all goes to hell, you will find owners of goods that are willing to commerce in your precious metal? Please answer that.
[/quote]

China will accept Gold. Most people will accept whatever the government decides is currency. All over the world throughout history people have used precious metals for currency, hell we just got off of it back in 71. We also have a lot of gold, more then anyone in the world. Makes sense just to jump back on that.

Gold is something people all around the world want.[/quote]

Well that’s fucking great if I’m starving in NJ. I’m aware of the use of gold throughout history. But the value of gold is determined by a market and an economy. If that falls, what guarantee do you have that gold will be an acceptable form of commerce??? Please answer.

80

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

What is your assurance that if all goes to hell, you will find owners of goods that are willing to commerce in your precious metal? Please answer that.
[/quote]

China will accept Gold. Most people will accept whatever the government decides is currency. All over the world throughout history people have used precious metals for currency, hell we just got off of it back in 71. We also have a lot of gold, more then anyone in the world. Makes sense just to jump back on that.

Gold is something people all around the world want.[/quote]

Well that’s fucking great if I’m starving in NJ. I’m aware of the use of gold throughout history. But the value of gold is determined by a market and an economy. If that falls, what guarantee do you have that gold will be an acceptable form of commerce??? Please answer.[/quote]

exactly, that is what my previous post was pointing out. Gold has value because we give it value, if your so concerned/paranoid about the economy failing and are looking for something to exchange for food, why not just put the money into durable canned goods.

Look everyone is going to have a different way to tell you to spend your money. If you have debt, pay it off as pointed out before, other then that, do some research and see if your goals are more long-term oriented, or if your out for a quick buck. If it is the latter, my first bit of advice would to do some reading and not ask for financial advice on a bodybuilding forum.