I really cant believe this thread is still going on. Its about time to blow this up with lots of pictures of half naked girls.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Are you guys really this stupid? Dude had stated that Christianity copied from Judaism and I said he was wrong, that Christianity is the continuation of Judaism - has nothing to do with your off-the-wall comments about Mithra, Horus and Joe the plumber . . . that’s it - nothing more . . .
Continuation implies that modern Judaism is less valid than Christianity.[/quote]
if Christ is the promised Messiah - yes
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Makavali wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Are you guys really this stupid? Dude had stated that Christianity copied from Judaism and I said he was wrong, that Christianity is the continuation of Judaism - has nothing to do with your off-the-wall comments about Mithra, Horus and Joe the plumber . . . that’s it - nothing more . . .
Continuation implies that modern Judaism is less valid than Christianity.
if Christ is the promised Messiah - yes[/quote]
if
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
are you implying that I have not been honest in my assessment? apparently you skipped a number of the posts in here just to be able to spout your opinions . . .[/quote]
I am not implying anything. I’m simply stating my position. You’ve been repeating that choices will have consequences, etc. as if all agnostics/atheists knew what was actually true, but were choosing their position out of spite or by sheer rebellion for it’s own sake. I was simply stating other possibilities.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Are you guys really this stupid? Dude had stated that Christianity copied from Judaism and I said he was wrong, that Christianity is the continuation of Judaism - has nothing to do with your off-the-wall comments about Mithra, Horus and Joe the plumber . . . that’s it - nothing more . . .[/quote]
Christianity is not Judaism+. Judaism is much more than just the Torah. I haven’t seen Christian using the Talmud much, nor referring to rabbinistic interpretations of the books they borrowed…
So, use whatever term you prefer: borrow, copy, inspire, build upon, etc. The simple fact remains that Christianity is built upon Judaism but splits from it once they go with the “Jesus was the Messiah” part. Judaism didn’t stop at that point. It’s still around today and still waiting for the Messiah. Modern Christianity does not englobe modern Judaism.
[quote]forlife wrote:
pat wrote:
We can know certain things by simply coming to a conclusion.
So concluding that something is true makes it true?
It is not subject to laws it creates and must posses something like a “will” to have decided to create.
Why does it have to desire to create something? I don’t think the clouds desire to create rain, yet somehow they manage to do so.
Of course we don’t know, but if we gave up everytime we didn’t know some thing we’d never know anything.
I never suggested giving up. I did suggest that it makes zero sense to jump to a conclusion that theory A is true, and theories B-Z are wrong, without supporting evidence to back it up. You admit yourself that there is no proof for your god, so why not simply admit that we don’t know and choose to withhold judgment until we do?
First, nothing in our universe has always existed. There is no evidence of that empirically.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed, and has pretty solid empirical support.
Where there is no time, everything exists infinitely.
Including the universe? Then why invoke the idea of a god when you admit it is possible that, outside of time, matter and energy exist forever? Is light not infinite by your definition?
The universe as we know it was caused.
What evidence do you have for this?[/quote]
[quote]pookie wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Are you guys really this stupid? Dude had stated that Christianity copied from Judaism and I said he was wrong, that Christianity is the continuation of Judaism - has nothing to do with your off-the-wall comments about Mithra, Horus and Joe the plumber . . . that’s it - nothing more . . .
Christianity is not Judaism+. Judaism is much more than just the Torah. I haven’t seen Christian using the Talmud much, nor referring to rabbinistic interpretations of the books they borrowed…
So, use whatever term you prefer: borrow, copy, inspire, build upon, etc. The simple fact remains that Christianity is built upon Judaism but splits from it once they go with the “Jesus was the Messiah” part. Judaism didn’t stop at that point. It’s still around today and still waiting for the Messiah. Modern Christianity does not englobe modern Judaism.
[/quote]
again you show your ignorance of Christianity . . . You’ve obviously never studied the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the Syrian Orthodox, and many others which still maintain a strong link to Judaic customs and teachings in connection with their Belief in Christ as the Jewish Messiah. Yes, Christianity has grown beyond the Torah and Talmud in its Gentile expansion, but that does not negate the link. Judaism is today where it was 2,000 years ago - still awaiting the Messiah. And I never said Christianity englobed (?) Judaism - there you go again changing what was said into something you can dismiss . . .
[quote]pookie wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
are you implying that I have not been honest in my assessment? apparently you skipped a number of the posts in here just to be able to spout your opinions . . .
I am not implying anything. I’m simply stating my position. You’ve been repeating that choices will have consequences, etc. as if all agnostics/atheists knew what was actually true, but were choosing their position out of spite or by sheer rebellion for it’s own sake. I was simply stating other possibilities.
[/quote]
hmm . . . from my view agnostics and atheists do choose their positions out of spite or rebellion . . .
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
Creating gods to suit your own purpose is one thing. Discovering via the exercise of pure reason as Aristotle did, is a whole other. The cosmological argument was not an exercise in creating a god to suit a need.
Aristotle also reasoned that the universe was made up of five elements, that the Earth was the centre point of this universe and that the five elements had a natural place and tended towards it (explaining why bubbles of air rise in water, flames rise in the air and stones sink in water.)
He was wrong about those things not because he was stupid but because he didn’t have all of the information. We now have far more information available and can see that the cosmological argument is fallactious.
Considering the best minds for centuries have been unable to refute it, please enlighten me to the refutation. I’ll submit your name for the Nobel Prize, hence there after.
Well for a start there is the statement that a casual chain cannot be of infinite length. Firstly, why not? And who says it is a chain, why not a loop?
[/quote]
Because it would then be a logical fallacy of circular reasoning, or begging the question.
[quote]
Then there is the point that nothing finite and contingent can cause itself which is kind of missing the point again. The assumption is that the universe is the whole, but most likely it is not the whole but a part. Also, finite contingent things happen into being all the time in quantuum events.[/quote]
okay?
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
hmm . . . from my view agnostics and atheists do choose their positions out of spite or rebellion . . . [/quote]
That’s all we needed to know. Thanks.
[quote]pookie wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
hmm . . . from my view agnostics and atheists do choose their positions out of spite or rebellion . . .
That’s all we needed to know. Thanks.
[/quote]
but you already knew that . . . so don’t act so dismissive,
In spite of your conscience or other facts, or in rebellion against the “global domination of Christian empiricists” - you’ve chosen a different set of beliefs . . . lol
yeah yeah - I know, oversimplification, and you didn’t even call me on it . . . oh well.
I have said a hundred times that people choose their own beliefs - the why’s or wherefore’s are as myriad as the population . . . .
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
orion wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
pookie wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Here’s what I’m trying to get at, though. If I accept that there might be (not is, but might) a creator(s) and an afterlife, then I’m wondering why we’re not automatically in the afterlife, in the prescence of the creator(s).
Excellent question.
I have to conclude that there would be types the creator(s) (if they might exist) would not tolerate in the afterlife.
Your conclusion brings up the question of why the creator would create beings he can’t tolerate. If the creator is omnipotent/scient/benevolent, it also seems illogical for him to have “intolerances” towards some of his creations.
Therefore, a judgement would be made after a time. Maybe the time could be a lifespan, in fact. Since there is judgement, there are do’s and dont’s. Since there are do’s and dont’s, they must be revealed to the created so they know what pleases and earns the eternal reward. Therefore, there must be some kind of deposit of revelation in the created’s history.
Sadly, many, many beings never make it old enough to be able to follow the do’s and don’ts. What about them? What about those who die from miscarriages or diseases? Is the creator either allowing them to skip judgement, or are they getting a free pass?
And how can agnostics be certain the Christian God doesn’t exist? I ask, because oddly this is usually the stance of “agnostics” on this board. If one is not certain there is a god(s) or not, how can one be so certain of his/they’re nature?
If there is a God, it seems improbable that one of the world’s 3000 religion has got it right, while the other 2,999 are wrong. More likely, they’re all wrong; if not about the existence of God, at least about his nature and his will.
Furthermore, if you study the history of religions, you can see that there’s been a lot of cross-pollination between the various faiths. Christianity borrows heavily from Judaism and absorbs various pagan rites as it spreads; Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism. Many motifs are found repeatedly: Trinities, virgin births, resurrections, healings and miracles, fulfilling prophecy, etc.
For one of those religions, developed through borrowing and accretion, to get the entire picture right seems to me unlikely in the extreme. Among believers, only deists or pantheists have a truly justifiable position.
You are an idiot - Christianity did not “borrow” from Judaism but is the continuation of Judaism following the revelation of the Messiah . . . wow - don’t even know the basics but feel free to comment from your ignorance . . . .
Really?
Why can�?�´t I see it as the Horus legend in search of a new vehicle?
Or the re-launch of the Mithras cult?
and you reached idiot-hood as well - I made a specific statement about a specific statement and now you bring in more “unreleated to the statement” idiocy . . .good for you . . .[/quote]
My your dumb, but that´s ok.
Jesus loves you.
He has to.
It´s his job.
But yes, Christians also stole Jewish folklore and why not?
They stole form everyone else.
[quote]orion wrote:
My your dumb, but that�´s ok.
Jesus loves you.
He has to.
It�´s his job.
But yes, Christians also stole Jewish folklore and why not?
They stole form everyone else.
[/quote]
Thanks for demonstrating your derisive bigotry once again