How Much Do You Know About Christianity?

[quote]pat wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
WHY DONT YOU PROVE YOUR RELIGION. Why is it that not one of you Bible thumpers/islamic extremists/ANYBODY who views thier religion as the only way it can be with NO PROOF. Why dont you go over to Iraq or afghanistan and preach to those lost souls and let me know how that works out for you. Oh and by the way stop LOLing. What are you a 14 year old sending a text?

- YouTube CAN WE SAY BRAINWASHED?
- YouTube There is another one for ya, christianity at its finest right there.

How meny stories have you read about some coward strapping bombs to himself and blowing himself up in a crowd of innocent people because he thought his ‘way’ was the right way? Religion has killed millions more than it will ever, EVER save.

So now you can come back with your whole ‘your heart has been hardened by satin’ speech so I can, as you would say, LOL at you and respond with ‘no its people like you who hardened my heart’.

Atheists still have the highest body count by a loooong shot. Muslim extremists are amateurs by comparison.[/quote]

Puhleaze…give me some deets.

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
lol - i love the irony of talking with you guys.

Go read some books. Try to understand (not just read) my posts. Then get back to me.

My library (with every title read at least once) now has several thousand books . . . everything from archaeology to zoology . . . from Arianism to Zoroastrianism . … from anarchy to socialism . … from Buddhism to Taosim . … from history to language studies . . .

So, thanks, but I picked up the reading thing in kindergarten . . .

I wish your posts were indicative of that.
[/quote]

and I wish you would stop trying to be aloof and erudite . . . your taciturn posts don’t express any real inquiry or posit an actual statements that elicit any worthwhile response . . . I’m sure it sounds impressive to you . . .

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:
lol - i love the irony of talking with you guys.

Go read some books. Try to understand (not just read) my posts. Then get back to me.

My library (with every title read at least once) now has several thousand books . . . everything from archaeology to zoology . . . from Arianism to Zoroastrianism . … from anarchy to socialism . … from Buddhism to Taosim . … from history to language studies . . .

So, thanks, but I picked up the reading thing in kindergarten . . .

I wish your posts were indicative of that.

and I wish you would stop trying to be aloof and erudite . . . your taciturn posts don’t express any real inquiry or posit an actual statements that elicit any worthwhile response . . . I’m sure it sounds impressive to you . . .[/quote]

hahaha

[quote]Oleena wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:


Husbands, love your wife
like Christ loved the church Do you really not see how a woman loving her husband like the lord and a husband loving the wife like christ loves the church are different? Christ guides and instructs the church! It is not an equal relationship between christ and the church! It’s an analogy that the husband should be to the wife as christ is to the church, which is the opposite of what we are to god the lord)

[/quote]

I’d have to question how deeply you sought understanding, (or how poorly you were taught in Sunday school) of Paul’s point here. I could be waaay off base to suggest Paul’s meaning in this passage, but I think an understanding of Jesus Christ’s life would suggest - My Lord and Savior’s DEMONSTRATED guidance & instruction is: He so loved his ‘sheep’ (see, even something here for Mak) to death, that he did just that, submitted himself as a substitute for the punishment we deserve (Ephesians 5:1/2. (akin to your point about husbands being responsible in Pakistan for the doings of the wife)

Concerning familial headship, similar to your (& others’) points about elephants and monkeys driving trees into mahouts or whatever; aside from a doorstop or a really bad bowling-ball, what use is a head without a body? In a reasonable number of denominations, a complementarian (equal but different roles) view of marriage is espoused.

If there is no god of any kind than where does everything come from? Where does science come from? where does the atoms, dark matter, people all that come from? if you never experienced pain how would you know what true pleasure is?

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:

Would a woman who slept with many men before she was married be viewed as having elevated worth according to the bible? It’s a difference in expectations. For years it was said “Men are just dirt, they can’t help being horny” and yet the woman who gave into her lustful nature was considered at fault. This may not be what you interpret the bible as saying, but it is the way numerous societies before you have, which IMO holds much more significance. What does it matter what you think if the book itself can so easily be misinterpreted and hurt many people? You are 1 out of 6 billion!

You have no even answered my most basic question with an answer that I didn’t antisipate/state that someone would try to answer it with from the get-go. All of your interpretations are ones that I have seen before, and it looks like you go to a LOT of effort to shape words to mean what you see as right. Meanwhile, free will is on the tip of your tounge, but you have not answered the question of what is the point of free will if god already knew who would sin and who would not before he brought them into existance. You act as if god had no choice in bringing everyone into existance, and you will not consider that even yourself would not bring a child into the world at a point in time when you knew you wouldn’t be able to afford one. In your opinion, just the gift of life makes up for the fact that many will burn in hell. If so, why don’t you go out and father as many children as possible right now?

Yes . . . she does have the same elevated worth . . .[/quote] Prove it. Even Jesus’ earthfather was considering leaving his mother because she might have slept with someone before him. Yes, this was contextual to the times, but then so it the entire book.

[quote]Well, if you want to know what other people believe ask them - but if you ask me, you will get what I believe - that is the point of asking me the question - you get my answer. I won’t apologize if my answer doesn’t fit with your expectations or views of what other people believed - The book doesn’t hurt people, people hurt people[/quote] I like how you were all up in arms about how harmful the muslim religion is in it’s attitude towards women, and then were quiet as soon as you realized that that too was just an “interpretation” out of context by and entire society. Do you still feel that muslim women are degraded by their society? Is it their religion’s fault? Why or why not? [quote] - and yes, I am just one - but I am me and I have chosen for myself through much research and reasoning the best possible world view and I am perfectly at peace with my Christianity.

Apparently, according to you, even if my understanding of Christianity answers your questions - you don’t care, because you would rather have the views of other people which don’t answer your questions about Christianity or better yet affirm your hatred of Christianity. So as I said much earlier - you don’t really want to have an honest discussion, you only want a chance to voice your hatred of Christianity - well go for it - But I will continue to answer with my understanding of scripture - not so much for your sake, but for the sake of any one else who might mistake your warped views for the real thing . . .

I don’t shape the meanings - I read, ask questions, research, study the original languages/manuscripts and form a rational understanding of what is contained in scripture - as every person should do for themselves . . .

Yes, God had a choice on whether or not to bring every soul into existence and He chose to. I have never said any different. I would gladly bring any child into this world that God saw fit to bless me with.[/quote] So why don’t you already have a couple of them? Your argument that the gift of life is worth the risk should be enough to overcome any rational, including not being married if you aren’t.

[quote]Once again - your problem with scripture/God/Christianity boils down to the punishment - eternal damnation. The punishment is too great for the sins committed . . .[/quote] When did I ever say this? [quote] but I have explained my views on that question and the granting of life to people who will choose to do wrong . . . you willingly pass by and assume your original views and deride mine as being 1 in 6 billion . . .

so pass on and stop asking me questions since you don’t want my answers . . .[/quote]

One last question- how do you know that you picked the right god-fearing religion?

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:
lol. Fine, no tree. What drives an elephant?

its called a mahout . . .

Very good. Now what drives a gorilla?

Edit: BTW, recently I saw a video of a pet chimpanzee driving a car…

sokwe kocha

lol. But you get my point. No one has to drive a gorilla or an elephant for them to move around, have cultures, make tools, have a language, etc. So what’s up with that? How are they doing it?

As I said before - if you do not acknowledge a difference between man and animals - my answer won’t matter to you . . . and you have already said you don’t care what my answers are . . . go ask someone else who will reaffirm your views . . . .[/quote]

Where did I ask what the difference was between man and animal? All I asked was how some of these higher-intelligence species are able to do their basic reasoning and move around without a soul to drive them. It shouldn’t really matter what I think of your answer, you should just be able to answer it with reasonable proof.

[quote]THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:

hahaha[/quote]

Sorry TCD, I can tell by your choice of terminology and sentence structure that you are well-educated individual and I shouldn’t be so rude - just been a little sensitive since I’ve had to deal with a lot of responders that are lacking some rudimentary language and reasoning skills.

If you care to posit your question(s) again - I will fairly and honestly respond to them.

Okay. Wanna get married? Only one thing- let’s switch! I’ll lead the house and go lead the state and you do the women’s work. You cool with that?

[quote]Mad_Duck wrote:
Oleena wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:


Husbands, love your wife
like Christ loved the church Do you really not see how a woman loving her husband like the lord and a husband loving the wife like christ loves the church are different? Christ guides and instructs the church! It is not an equal relationship between christ and the church! It’s an analogy that the husband should be to the wife as christ is to the church, which is the opposite of what we are to god the lord)

I’d have to question how deeply you sought understanding, (or how poorly you were taught in Sunday school) of Paul’s point here. I could be waaay off base to suggest Paul’s meaning in this passage, but I think an understanding of Jesus Christ’s life would suggest - My Lord and Savior’s DEMONSTRATED guidance & instruction is: He so loved his ‘sheep’ (see, even something here for Mak) to death, that he did just that, submitted himself as a substitute for the punishment we deserve (Ephesians 5:1/2. (akin to your point about husbands being responsible in Pakistan for the doings of the wife)

Concerning familial headship, similar to your (& others’) points about elephants and monkeys driving trees into mahouts or whatever; aside from a doorstop or a really bad bowling-ball, what use is a head without a body? In a reasonable number of denominations, a complementarian (equal but different roles) view of marriage is espoused.[/quote]

Actually, agnosticism would be an utter lack of faith in anything. It would be incorrect logic to say that lack of faith=faith. Atheism is indeed a type of faith, although I think that most of the people who hold consider it a bet “Well, if I had to bet money on whether or not there was a god based on the evidence, I would go with no god.”

Christianity eliminates the “I would bet” part and simply says “I know”.

You basically just said “I don’t know, but don’t blame me for going with this because everyone has a type of faith.” Which, as I said above, isn’t true.

You still haven’t answered my question: how do you know that your religion is the right one?

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Oleena wrote:
So you admit that it’s impossible to know until you die?

I do?

I will say this, you have faith one way or the other. In other words, ya gotta believe in something. If you sincerely believe there is no God then you have faith, no?

If you go the agnostic route and say, “I just don’t know for sure,” and are content with that then you still have faith. It’s an inverted one, sure, but it is faith.

[/quote]

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:

hahaha

Sorry TCD, I can tell by your choice of terminology and sentence structure that you are well-educated individual and I shouldn’t be so rude - just been a little sensitive since I’ve had to deal with a lot of responders that are lacking some rudimentary language and reasoning skills.

If you care to posit your question(s) again - I will fairly and honestly respond to them.[/quote]

Basing your opinion of someone’s intelligence off of typed communication is a horrible way to go. One of the most intelligent bio-engineers I ever met misspelled his own name on a V-day card and you would never know he passed first grade to see him type an email. I could come to some pretty low conclusions of yourself based on the fact that you keep going back to the concept of sin and punishment when I was speaking of forethought and creation.

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Prove it. Even Jesus’ earthfather was considering leaving his mother because she might have slept with someone before him. Yes, this was contextual to the times, but then so it the entire book.

I like how you were all up in arms about how harmful the muslim religion is in it’s attitude towards women, and then were quiet as soon as you realized that that too was just an “interpretation” out of context by and entire society. Do you still feel that muslim women are degraded by their society? Is it their religion’s fault? Why or why not?

So why don’t you already have a couple of them? Your argument that the gift of life is worth the risk should be enough to overcome any rational, including not being married if you aren’t.

One last question- how do you know that you picked the right god-fearing religion?

[/quote]

You obviously do not know your Bible at all . . . Rahab the harlot - was considered worthy enough to be included in the lineage of Christ, Mary Magdalene was worthy enough to be the first person to see the resurrected Christ, Gomer, another prostitute was worthy enough to used as an example of God’s love for Israel and her husband paid the price to buy her back and elevated her to the position of his beloved despite all she had done - as an example of God’s love.

Joseph was acting like a man - not representing the will of God - true forgiveness removes all misdeeds and returns the the fallen to their proper station.

I did not answer your asinine comments on how Muslims treat their women - because you have no idea what you are talking about . . .

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/wifeabuse.html

http://heifers.blogspot.com/2007/06/islamic-mistreatment-of-women.html

http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/muslim.shtml

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327187,00.html

and that was just the easy ones to find on google . . .

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Where did I ask what the difference was between man and animal? All I asked was how some of these higher-intelligence species are able to do their basic reasoning and move around without a soul to drive them. It shouldn’t really matter what I think of your answer, you should just be able to answer it with reasonable proof.
[/quote]

You’ve already stated that you don’t consider my answers worthy of consideration - so go find answers that affirm your view

[quote]Oleena wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
THE_CLAMP_DOWN wrote:

hahaha

Sorry TCD, I can tell by your choice of terminology and sentence structure that you are well-educated individual and I shouldn’t be so rude - just been a little sensitive since I’ve had to deal with a lot of responders that are lacking some rudimentary language and reasoning skills.

If you care to posit your question(s) again - I will fairly and honestly respond to them.

Basing your opinion of someone’s intelligence off of typed communication is a horrible way to go. One of the most intelligent bio-engineers I ever met misspelled his own name on a V-day card and you would never know he passed first grade to see him type an email. I could come to some pretty low conclusions of yourself based on the fact that you keep going back to the concept of sin and punishment when I was speaking of forethought and creation.

[/quote]

wow - thanks for that completely unsought and unneeded personal opinion and story . . .

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Okay. Wanna get married? Only one thing- let’s switch! I’ll lead the house and go lead the state and you do the women’s work. You cool with that?

Mad_Duck wrote:
Oleena wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:


Husbands, love your wife
like Christ loved the church Do you really not see how a woman loving her husband like the lord and a husband loving the wife like christ loves the church are different? Christ guides and instructs the church! It is not an equal relationship between christ and the church! It’s an analogy that the husband should be to the wife as christ is to the church, which is the opposite of what we are to god the lord)

I’d have to question how deeply you sought understanding, (or how poorly you were taught in Sunday school) of Paul’s point here. I could be waaay off base to suggest Paul’s meaning in this passage, but I think an understanding of Jesus Christ’s life would suggest - My Lord and Savior’s DEMONSTRATED guidance & instruction is: He so loved his ‘sheep’ (see, even something here for Mak) to death, that he did just that, submitted himself as a substitute for the punishment we deserve (Ephesians 5:1/2. (akin to your point about husbands being responsible in Pakistan for the doings of the wife)

Concerning familial headship, similar to your (& others’) points about elephants and monkeys driving trees into mahouts or whatever; aside from a doorstop or a really bad bowling-ball, what use is a head without a body? In a reasonable number of denominations, a complementarian (equal but different roles) view of marriage is espoused.

[/quote]

The way things are set up in our household, I’ve got the bulk of the domestic duties (I’m assume this is what you mean by 'women’s work), and the part-time job. My wife - somewhat like the wife in Proverbs 31, is the 9 to 5’er. She’s the one with the background in management, mine is in training & primary care, so yeah, early on WE decided I’d probably be ‘Daddy Day Care’. Like I said, complementing one another using the gifts of each of us.

As far as “go lead the state” what do you mean?

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:

Prove it. Even Jesus’ earthfather was considering leaving his mother because she might have slept with someone before him. Yes, this was contextual to the times, but then so it the entire book.

I like how you were all up in arms about how harmful the muslim religion is in it’s attitude towards women, and then were quiet as soon as you realized that that too was just an “interpretation” out of context by and entire society. Do you still feel that muslim women are degraded by their society? Is it their religion’s fault? Why or why not?

So why don’t you already have a couple of them? Your argument that the gift of life is worth the risk should be enough to overcome any rational, including not being married if you aren’t.

One last question- how do you know that you picked the right god-fearing religion?

You obviously do not know your Bible at all . . . Rahab the harlot - was considered worthy enough to be included in the lineage of Christ, Mary Magdalene was worthy enough to be the first person to see the resurrected Christ, Gomer, another prostitute was worthy enough to used as an example of God’s love for Israel and her husband paid the price to buy her back and elevated her to the position of his beloved despite all she had done - as an example of God’s love.

Joseph was acting like a man - not representing the will of God - true forgiveness removes all misdeeds and returns the the fallen to their proper station.

I did not answer your asinine comments on how Muslims treat their women - because you have no idea what you are talking about . . .
[/quote] You do have selective reading! I didn’t say that Muslims do not abuse their women, I said that their religion says the same things about women being of elevated worth as the christian religion. My point was that the way the society interprets the religion is what matters, and that all of the values of the religion are similar to christianity. Infact, the society holds men even more responsible for what their female relatives do than ours. The women are considered property, and that’s why they aren’t held responsible. Part of the reason the women are abused is because the state doesn’t deal with them- it deals with the men and lets the men deal with them.

Here’s a nice summary of the entire picture, so you can stop judging Islamic religion as anything different than your christian religion, and understand that it is a tool of society at any point in time.

http://new.vawnet.org/category/Main_Doc.php?docid=411

I mean that not many christian wives throughout history have led a country.

[quote]Mad_Duck wrote:
Oleena wrote:
Okay. Wanna get married? Only one thing- let’s switch! I’ll lead the house and go lead the state and you do the women’s work. You cool with that?

Mad_Duck wrote:
Oleena wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Oleena wrote:


Husbands, love your wife
like Christ loved the church Do you really not see how a woman loving her husband like the lord and a husband loving the wife like christ loves the church are different? Christ guides and instructs the church! It is not an equal relationship between christ and the church! It’s an analogy that the husband should be to the wife as christ is to the church, which is the opposite of what we are to god the lord)

I’d have to question how deeply you sought understanding, (or how poorly you were taught in Sunday school) of Paul’s point here. I could be waaay off base to suggest Paul’s meaning in this passage, but I think an understanding of Jesus Christ’s life would suggest - My Lord and Savior’s DEMONSTRATED guidance & instruction is: He so loved his ‘sheep’ (see, even something here for Mak) to death, that he did just that, submitted himself as a substitute for the punishment we deserve (Ephesians 5:1/2. (akin to your point about husbands being responsible in Pakistan for the doings of the wife)

Concerning familial headship, similar to your (& others’) points about elephants and monkeys driving trees into mahouts or whatever; aside from a doorstop or a really bad bowling-ball, what use is a head without a body? In a reasonable number of denominations, a complementarian (equal but different roles) view of marriage is espoused.

The way things are set up in our household, I’ve got the bulk of the domestic duties (I’m assume this is what you mean by 'women’s work), and the part-time job. My wife - somewhat like the wife in Proverbs 31, is the 9 to 5’er. She’s the one with the background in management, mine is in training & primary care, so yeah, early on WE decided I’d probably be ‘Daddy Day Care’. Like I said, complementing one another using the gifts of each of us.

As far as “go lead the state” what do you mean?[/quote]

[quote]Oleena wrote:

You do have selective reading! I didn’t say that Muslims do not abuse their women, I said that their religion says the same things about women being of elevated worth as the christian religion. My point was that the way the society interprets the religion is what matters, and that all of the values of the religion are similar to christianity. Infact, the society holds men even more responsible for what their female relatives do than ours. The women are considered property, and that’s why they aren’t held responsible. Part of the reason the women are abused is because the state doesn’t deal with them- it deals with the men and lets the men deal with them.

Here’s a nice summary of the entire picture, so you can stop judging Islamic religion as anything different than your christian religion, and understand that it is a tool of society at any point in time.

http://new.vawnet.org/category/Main_Doc.php?docid=411

[/quote]

Here’s a nice summary of the entire picture, so that you can stop judging Islamic teaching as being the same as Christian teaching and understand that there are substantive differences between Islam and Christianity.

http://www.investigateislam.com/sura_4.htm