How Much Do You Know About Christianity?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
401

Well here is the reason I ask this. I cam across a very interesting question not too long ago. The question is 'Why if god with all his power to create heaven and earth, to hear our prayers, and to supposedly effect our lives on a daily basis whether it be for good or bad, has NEVER in the history of human beings been able to give an amputee a limb back? I mean what the hell?

This is the all powerfull being who created us and everything around us. Hell he created the universe. He causes miracles on a daily basis right? You would think that giving someone a limb back would be a flip of the wrist for him so what gives? An interesting idea to ponder? I REALLY want to hear the defences to that which are about to pop up so lets have it fellas. Try explaining that one.

403

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Well here is the reason I ask this. I cam across a very interesting question not too long ago. The question is 'Why if god with all his power to create heaven and earth, to hear our prayers, and to supposedly effect our lives on a daily basis whether it be for good or bad, has NEVER in the history of human beings been able to give an amputee a limb back? I mean what the hell? This is the all powerfull being who created us and everything around us. Hell he created the universe. He causes miracles on a daily basis right? You would think that giving someone a limb back would be a flip of the wrist for him so what gives? An interesting idea to ponder? I REALLY want to hear the defences to that which are about to pop up so lets have it fellas. Try explaining that one.

[/quote]

Whatever that means…
I figured that you of all people would jump all over that question with some kind of religious rhetoric, but instead I get a photo of a drunk old guy. What gives?

404

[quote]Buff HardBack wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Well here is the reason I ask this. I cam across a very interesting question not too long ago. The question is 'Why if god with all his power to create heaven and earth, to hear our prayers, and to supposedly effect our lives on a daily basis whether it be for good or bad, has NEVER in the history of human beings been able to give an amputee a limb back? I mean what the hell? This is the all powerfull being who created us and everything around us. Hell he created the universe. He causes miracles on a daily basis right? You would think that giving someone a limb back would be a flip of the wrist for him so what gives? An interesting idea to ponder? I REALLY want to hear the defences to that which are about to pop up so lets have it fellas. Try explaining that one.

Whatever that means…
I figured that you of all people would jump all over that question with some kind of religious rhetoric, but instead I get a photo of a drunk old guy. What gives?
[/quote]

Im thinking of God as a “clockmaker” where he sets the clock and whatever happens happens- but he’s always there to keep the clock running, if not perfect than at least its managing to tick and tock ya kno?

405

[quote]pookie wrote:
jpb wrote:
The Bible says God created all things for His own glory.

Why does an omniscient, omnipotent being need to be glorified?[quote]

The Bible does not say He “needed” to do this, but He did so according to His will.

[quote]Adam and Even had free will in an unrestricted sense.

They were restricted by not having the full and complete information to make wise decisions.[quote]

God forbade them from eating of the tree upon the pain of death; what other information did they need?

[quote]After falling into sin, things changed drastically and this affected us as God deals with mankind on the basis of representation. In Adam, all died; in Christ, all shall be made alive.

So God deceived Adam and Eve so they would fall, only to later sacrifice Himself to Himself to pay Himself for the sin of those He caused to fall in the first place?[quote]

I do not believe God “deceived Adam and Eve.” I do believe that the fall was the occasion for the eventual redemption wrought by Christ.

[quote]In Adam, our wills are free in the sense that there is no external coercion forcing us to do what we do. Our wills, however, are bent toward those things which are displeasing to God (Luther called this the “bondage of the will”). When God saves a sinner, He does so by His power and for His glory and in order to magnify His mercy.

Why did he make us so that our wills bend the wrong way? Maybe he prefers sinners after all. I know I do, they’re so much more fun to have around.[quote]

The Bible does not address this particular question.

[quote]When God damns a sinner, He does so to magnify His justice (Romans 9). We may not like this arrangement, but nowhere that I have found in the Bible does God ask us whether we like it or not.

We don’t ask a puppet if it likes it before we stick our hand up it’s behind. Why should God?[quote]

Paul actually uses the analogy of the Potter and pots in Romans 9, not puppets.

[quote]With reference to God’s sovereignty and our free will, I actually think the Bible sets forth man’s responsibility rather than his utter free will.

If you don’t have free will, you can’t be held responsible.[quote]

Do you think that a man in a prison is no longer responsible to abide by the rules of the particular institution? Do your children obey you perfectly, all the time? Are they responsible to do so?

[quote]Man in Adam cannot please God (Romans 8:7-8). If we would be saved, we must be born again and this happens by the power of God acting upon sinners.

Being born again is such a nice euphemism for “turning off our brain.”[quote]

I do not agree with this. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

[quote]Some Christians here may object to my limiting the freeness of the will. Consider heaven though, we will not have free will, it will be bound and only able to glorify God.

Sounds peachy. I find it odd that omniscience and omnipotence leads to so much insecurity.[quote]

It is odd, but such is the case.

[quote]I realize this does not solve all of the “what about this” or “what about that” questions, but there is only so far the finite can go in fully comprehending the Infinite.

Questions are bad. Definitely. You have questions? Shut the fuck up and pray.[quote]

Questions are not bad, as long as we seek our answers in the Bible.

[quote]This should not be taken to mean that God is incomprehensible;

The finite cannot comprehend the infinite, but God is not incomprehensible. So then God is comprehensible, and the finite can comprehend the infinite. But the finite cannot comprehend the infinite…[quote]

God is comprehensible as He has revealed Himself. However, we cannot know everything there is to know about God as there is a distinction between Him and us.

[quote]He has revealed Himself in the Bible. However, there are some secret things (Dt 29:29) and our prejudices often times get in the way of understanding plain statements in the Bible.

Not to mention common sense.[quote]

I disagree. I think that God created the universe and has revealed Himself in the Bible. I think genuine common sense comes from knowing God, through the Lord Jesus Christ.

jpb

406

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Well here is the reason I ask this. I cam across a very interesting question not too long ago. The question is 'Why if god with all his power to create heaven and earth, to hear our prayers, and to supposedly effect our lives on a daily basis whether it be for good or bad, has NEVER in the history of human beings been able to give an amputee a limb back? I mean what the hell? This is the all powerfull being who created us and everything around us. Hell he created the universe. He causes miracles on a daily basis right? You would think that giving someone a limb back would be a flip of the wrist for him so what gives? An interesting idea to ponder? I REALLY want to hear the defences to that which are about to pop up so lets have it fellas. Try explaining that one.

[/quote]

Push, that was just fucking hilarious. LOL!!! Thanks! ~Katz

407

WOW really? Thats your response? Dont you have some argument that you want to get into about how off I am and that I know nothing about what im talking about? Is that what you religious folks do in situations like that? I ask an honest to the point question and I get a pic of an old guy as a response, oh and of course a response to the pic of ‘that was just fucking hilarious. LOL!!! Thanks’. I was hoping you guys were going to come out of the woodwork to defend your beliefs and THATS what I get. Epic, Enormous and Absolute fail, but thanks anyways. My aetheist viewpoints are even stronger now. Good job boys.

409

Ok well then someone who has been argueing this for the past few days need to step up and give me an answer to my question. How are you possibly going to open my eyes to the glory of our lord if you are all backing down?

410

[quote]Buff HardBack wrote:
Ok well then someone who has been argueing this for the past few days need to step up and give me an answer to my question. How are you possibly going to open my eyes to the glory of our lord if you are all backing down?[/quote]

cool your jets, sunshine, some of us have jobs and workouts, so we may be a little slow in getting an opportunity to respond to you.

First off - just want to mention that I don’t appreciate the sarcastic tone of your post - is he really your lord? Somehow, I don’t think so . . . but hey, you probably did it to get a rise out of some of us - so, congratulations on that . . .

OK - now to your question.

Why doesn’t God do miracles to prove his power to us - isn’t that your question?

LOL - wow, maybe its just me, but I was expecting some really tough questions in this thread . . . anyhoo - this will do for now.

The construct goes something like this:

If God exist, He could do miracles.
God does not do miracles, so He must not exist . . .

First of all- having the ability does not necessitate that he uses that ability to satisfy your every whim - God is not some cosmic pez dispenser ready and able to grant our every little desire - if that is the Kind of deity you seek, you merely seek an all-powerful genie to be your slave and do not seek to truly know, appreciate and love the Divine.

Your construct is based on the assumption that if God did do miracles, like heal an amputee, then you would believe in him because you would have undeniable proof of his existence.

Its the same as the classic example of the man shouting at God - “I do not believe you exist and will give you the chance to prove that you do - if you exist, strike me down with lightening for blasphemy.” and when he is not struck down with lightening, he assumes he proved that God did not exist.

The reality is that, even if God performed a miracle right in front of us, those who did not believe in Him prior would not change their denial of his existence and would look for a rational explanation to prove that it was not God performing the miracle. Jesus’ life is the perfect example of that - even the people who should have accepted easiest (the religious leaders) failed to accept his miracles as the work of God and some even resorted to calling them the works of Lucifer - what makes you think people today would do any differently?

It is not the absence of miracles that causes you to deny His existence, so performing miracles would not prove to you that He did exist. So your base assumption for the construct is not true, thus what would be the point of Him doing a miracle to prove himself to you?

And finally, he wants us to accept him BY FAITH, not by proof. Simply trust - that is all he asks of us.

This hearkens back to my wordy posts earlier. He wants genuine love and faith from us - if he forced us to love him and removed any need for faith - we would have simply become automatons controlled by his actions rather than free to choose to love him and to have faith in him.

anyway - just as a miracle would not prove God to you, I imagine that my answer will not suffice for you either . . . but since he is not your lord, you’ve nothing to worry about . . …right?

411

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
wow - do you suffer from diarrhea of the brain often?

I suppose it’s better than amenorrhea. [/quote]

LOL - right, yeah? it always bugs me when people get that amenorrhea! never been much of a shouter in church myself . . .

412

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Ok well then someone who has been argueing this for the past few days need to step up and give me an answer to my question. How are you possibly going to open my eyes to the glory of our lord if you are all backing down?

cool your jets, sunshine, some of us have jobs and workouts, so we may be a little slow in getting an opportunity to respond to you.

First off - just want to mention that I don’t appreciate the sarcastic tone of your post - is he really your lord? Somehow, I don’t think so . . . but hey, you probably did it to get a rise out of some of us - so, congratulations on that . . .

Well I really dont care if you appreciate it or not. According to people like you he is everyones lord. My point was never to get a rise it was to get someone to answer my question which, at least you attempted.
OK - now to your question.

Why doesn’t God do miracles to prove his power to us - isn’t that your question?

No that was not my question. Of course if he wanted to prove to us that he exists and that he does miracles he supposedly would have no trouble because, again he is supposed to be all knowing and all powerful right? So on that note can someone like me, be punished by him for not having faith when he has given me no reason to believe?

LOL - wow, maybe its just me, but I was expecting some really tough questions in this thread . . . anyhoo - this will do for now.

LOL - wow, maybe its just me, but I was expecting everyone of you religious types to lay into me with a bunch of answers to my question.

The construct goes something like this:

If God exist, He could do miracles.
God does not do miracles, so He must not exist . . .

First of all- having the ability does not necessitate that he uses that ability to satisfy your every whim - God is not some cosmic pez dispenser ready and able to grant our every little desire - if that is the Kind of deity you seek, you merely seek an all-powerful genie to be your slave and do not seek to truly know, appreciate and love the Divine.

Your construct is based on the assumption that if God did do miracles, like heal an amputee, then you would believe in him because you would have undeniable proof of his existence.

My construct is based on the assumption that sense supposedly he ALREADY does do miracles based on the opinions of meny, (heal the sick, save people from life threatening situation, get them through tough times and so forth) that a miracle such as a limb growing back would not be beyond his ability to do.

Its the same as the classic example of the man shouting at God - “I do not believe you exist and will give you the chance to prove that you do - if you exist, strike me down with lightening for blasphemy.” and when he is not struck down with lightening, he assumes he proved that God did not exist.

The reality is that, even if God performed a miracle right in front of us, those who did not believe in Him prior would not change their denial of his existence and would look for a rational explanation to prove that it was not God performing the miracle. Jesus’ life is the perfect example of that - even the people who should have accepted easiest (the religious leaders) failed to accept his miracles as the work of God and some even resorted to calling them the works of Lucifer - what makes you think people today would do any differently?

It is not the absence of miracles that causes you to deny His existence, so performing miracles would not prove to you that He did exist. So your base assumption for the construct is not true, thus what would be the point of Him doing a miracle to prove himself to you?

And finally, he wants us to accept him BY FAITH, not by proof. Simply trust - that is all he asks of us.

THIS IS THE POINT IM GETTING AT. How am I to have faith in something or someone that I cant see, touch, taste, smell, hear, feel, or sense. If someone had put a book of fairy tales in my hand when I was a child and had told me that this is how it is, would I know the difference now that im older? How are the two even different? Stories that were written ages ago that im just supposed to believe because im told to? Or what if it was not a bible? What if it was the quran? Would your god accept me even though I prayed to a different god and set of beliefs?

This hearkens back to my wordy posts earlier. He wants genuine love and faith from us - if he forced us to love him and removed any need for faith - we would have simply become automatons controlled by his actions rather than free to choose to love him and to have faith in him.

anyway - just as a miracle would not prove God to you, I imagine that my answer will not suffice for you either . . . but since he is not your lord, you’ve nothing to worry about . . …right?
[/quote]

413

[quote]pookie wrote:
IrishSteel wrote:
Pookie - love your avatar, but do not appreciate the insulting condescension and denigration of my beliefs.

If you do not share them, that’s fine. But do you have to be so irreverent of what I hold dear?

Actually, yes I do. If you just had a favorite book or movie that you liked and I didn’t, I wouldn’t care.

Unfortunately, Christianity still has a large number of follower from myriads of little sects, and collectively, the beliefs they have affect everyone since those beliefs shape their thinking. The problem is that since many of those beliefs are contrary to what we now know to be true, people make bad decisions, bad choices, and worse: vote for people making the same bad decisions and choices.

Religion has long had a free pass. Just because it was “religious” you had to automatically give it respect. You either joined in, or silently tolerated it, but you couldn’t say anything if you found bits of it funny or outright ridiculous. Religion, at least the vast majority of them, have shown themselves to be entirely unworthy of such respect.

I have never treated you in a similar manner, yet you feel perfectly justified to do so to me?

I have nothing against you personally. I quite convinced you’re a nice guy and a productive member of society. My sarcasm isn’t directed at you, the person, but it is directed at your beliefs, most of which I find ridiculous.

regardless of your lack of respect for me - I still find many of your posts absolutely entertaining!

If you can get over the heavy sarcasm of the previous reply, I’d like to know how someone living in this modern world can read the story of Adam and Eve and even contemplate for a second that that story might be true.

I’d like to know what you make of evil when it is not man made. Sure, man does evil because he has free will… but what of natural disasters who kill people? Or dreadful diseases that kill billions? Kids that are born with only a few short painful lives to live… How does one reconcile that with an infinitely loving God without spraining both brain lobes?

Thanks for jumping in - hope we can actually have some real conversations in the future.

You’re one of the rare Christian I’ve seen who can manage to reply calmly and politely to a post he finds insulting. Good to know you at least apply the good parts of Christianity along with the weird ones.
[/quote]

LOL - we’re gonna have fun, you and I - thanks for the refreshingly honest approach

OK, to answer your specific questions.

Believing in the literal story of Adam and Eve. - I find it no harder to believe that all humans descended from an original pair of created humans than evolutionists find it believing that all life descended from an amino acid that just happened into existence in a universe that just happened into existence - in fact, when it comes to greater faith - evolutionists have me beat by light years . . . . lol

OK - you’re second question have a couple of variants in it, so I hope I can address them all well. . . ok first- natural disasters, yes they do happen and they are awful . . . but understand that God set this world into motion with its physical laws and there will be cause/effect consequences that must happen as a result of those laws. Any further down this road gets into the miracle answer I gave Buff.- read that and we can pick it up from there.

I had a sister that died from a brain tumor when I was eight, the disease question was one I struggled with for years. Those that have spent any time around terminally ill children have seen firsthand the amazing grace that God gives to them and I know he sends his angels to watch over them and to comfort them in their suffering . . . I do know that He will more than make up for the suffering that they had to endure in this world - there is a special place for each of them in His kingdom.

My sister touched my heart so greatly as she suffered with her disease. In those days, the only treatment was massive doses of chemo - she was more sick from the treatment than the disease. The night before she died, she called me and my brothers into her room and talked with each of us one by one . . . she told me that she was not afraid of dying, that she was looking forward to being free of the pain and that we should not be mad at God for taking her to be with him first - she also told me that she knew there was a reason for her disease/suffering and we would see what it was soon . . . two of my uncles were saved at her funeral and I know that she knew God would use her temporary pain for a greater good.

Sorry, my typing probably sucked during those two paragraphs, hard to write through the tears . . .

One other thought in this thread . . . Disease and death are a result of sin being brought by man into his creation . . .it is a consequence of man’s disobedience . . .sorry, can’t type more right now

414

I got 39 right I’ve read the bible a lot, as I find it very interesting. I am not a bible basher and I don’t go to church but I do have a interest in all religions.

And the only religious quote i truly do believes in and it isn’t from the bible is " every one turns to god just before death". That was said by our Chaplin the day before we left to go on a deployment.

He was spot on as well the most hard core theres no god turned to him in the end.

415

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

When one lacks the capacity for exercising their God-given free will (whether due to age, damage or defect) there is no longer moral culpability. We already acknowledge this in our own legal system - mentally handicapped individuals are not held responsible for actions they commit that would be considered illegal if conducted by a person of normal function . . .

However - when someone ingests something knowing that it will affect their functionality - their FREE WILL CHOICE was made prior to any subsequent illegal action - and they are so held as being culpable for those actions under our legal system.

So you have only illustrated the truth I pointed out pages ago that each individual will be judged on their own life and the choices they made for which they are culpable before God.

NOW – – Speaking directly to your illustrations, free will does not negate resultant consequences of choices from being applied. Free will is not a magic “avoid bad things” escape card - it is the agency whereby you are free to make choices.

Where did you people get your concept of free will? [/quote]

I’m pretty sure we incarcerate the criminally insane… But reality is such a slippery concept for you, I can forgive this oversight. Even if our justice system did totally exonerate people that could not “exercise their free will” it wouldn’t have any bearing on if free will exists outside the realm of a legal concept. The particular logical falicy you are making in this instance is called Appeal to Authority. Kindly look it up, and don’t do it again.

Second, even if I had free will before I drank my first beer, there are at least a few more that have to follow it before I’m drunk. So do I still have free will after my second beer. Do I only have half my free will after my 4th? What about small children, or even teenagers, whos brains are not fully developed? How much free will do they have? At one point do they cease to be controlled by the chemical reaction that animates babies and retards, and begin to control themselves?

The point here isn’t how the legal system treats people that choose to get loaded, and then do something terrible. It’s about the fact that physical things can restrict our access to free will. If altering a persons brain chemistry can take away their free will, how can you say anyone ever has any to start with? Especailly since a persons brain chemistry is constantly in flux, and never the same as any anyone else’s?

416

[quote]zarrs wrote:
I got 39 right I’ve read the bible a lot, as I find it very interesting. I am not a bible basher and I don’t go to church but I do have a interest in all religions.

And the only religious quote i truly do believes in and it isn’t from the bible is " every one turns to god just before death". That was said by our Chaplin the day before we left to go on a deployment.

He was spot on as well the most hard core theres no god turned to him in the end.[/quote]

Ah well of course they do, scared of the unknown. I just don’t understand why they have to turn to christianity? Why can’t they turn to Zeus or Thor? Is it because they believe the Christian god is the right one, or because they just don’t know enough about other religions to trust in them? Serious question, not a christian-bashing one.

418

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
zarrs wrote:
I got 39 right I’ve read the bible a lot, as I find it very interesting. I am not a bible basher and I don’t go to church but I do have a interest in all religions.

And the only religious quote i truly do believes in and it isn’t from the bible is " every one turns to god just before death". That was said by our Chaplin the day before we left to go on a deployment.

He was spot on as well the most hard core theres no god turned to him in the end.

Ah well of course they do, scared of the unknown. I just don’t understand why they have to turn to christianity? Why can’t they turn to Zeus or Thor? Is it because they believe the Christian god is the right one, or because they just don’t know enough about other religions to trust in them? Serious question, not a christian-bashing one.[/quote]

I am guessing is more of a cultural and periodical thing more than anything else, pretty much from day one man kind has some sort of belief in a god its changed through out the generations and normally the civilization that is the most powerful has the most followers. Once a country was taken over they would normally ban other religions kinda what moderden day china is doing with in its own country. You can’t blame religion for this. It’s the people using religion as a form of control.

Thats how things normally work the strong survive and the others are forgotten hence Christianity taking over most of the world but It never conquered the middle east long enough for it to dominate hence Islam not being phased out.

419

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
ephrem wrote:
John S. wrote:He created human to please himself, If you actually took time to read the bible you would understand that.

…if this is true, then the matter of free-will must be revisited:

If God created mankind to please himself, and he gave us free-will, then he must’ve known that we’d make decisions that would not please him. This is illogical. So, how would you reconcile this?

No it’s not illogical. Would it please him if he made us into robots who had no choice but to love and worship him? Of course not. Only love that is freely chosen is meaningful. [/quote]

We don’t know if it would, and you don’t either. Isn’t one of the principle tenents of Christianity that god is mysterious and unfathomable? Regardless, what we want is irrelevant. Things are the way they are independent of they way we feel about them, or the way we think god would feel about them.

420

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Ya know this “appeal to authority” moaning is getting a bit out of hand. The evolutionist/atheist/believer loves this little phrase. Do they teach this at “How to Debate a Creationist” symposiums?

I see citings of Dawkins, Darwin, Leakey, et al, but the AtA regulation remarkably (miraculously?) vanishes when the hallowed names of those “authorities” are invoked. An objective thinker would tend to call that a …double standard.

However, when the Lewis’, Behes, Morelands and Meyers are mentioned the fire alarm goes off, the epileptic fits erupt and and the yammering begins full force.

Interesting.

Telling.[/quote]

I’m sorry you’re tired of appeal to authority. You wouldn’t hear it so often if you didn’t commit the error so often. The fact that you’re citing Dawkins as an example of atheists giving offense in this regard, and Behe as an example of a double stardard is… telling. Dawkins is a respected biologist. Behe is a pariah in his own department. Behe’s major argument, irreducable complexity, has been trashed. Take the evoloution of the eye for instance.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4742301713635559854

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

There is no scientific controversy surrounding evolution. Bioligists, like Behe, who claim there is one, find themselves marginalized by their peers and should not be considered an authority. Evolution is as scientifically grounded as gravity. It is part of the observable world. It has been tested and proven. Most of modern medicine would not exist without it. Same with genetics and anthropology, and a host of other hard sciences. I repeat, there is no controversy surrounding evolution.