[quote]Oleena wrote:
An atheist is defined as someone who does not believe in the existance of deities. I originally started asking this question when I did believe in a mono god, and now I would decribe my spiritual outlook as Taoist. However, because taoism is considered a philosophy dealing with patterns and no god, and because I have yet to see convincing evidence of a soul, I would have to describe my outlook on deities as atheist.
In the Bible there are numerous examples of god destroying many, banishing them to hell, so that one or a few, could live (Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah and the Ark, many of the enemy armies of the Israelites, and in Revelations it goes so far as to say that only 144,000 will be sealed from God’s wrath and be admitted into heaven).
But this actually isn’t my problem with christianity. My problem is that god KNEW the numbers. And if you or I were faced with those same numbers, we would decide not to have all those children. Why would I follow someone who makes more selfish decisions than I do?
pat wrote:
Oleena wrote:
Pushme and IrishSteel, I am going to give you a chance to convert me back to Christianity right now. I swear to you that I am being serious, and if there is a good answer to this that does not involve the following, I will return to Christianity (when I was a Christian, I loved being a Christian) 1. Saying God is anything less than all knowing, because that’s been clearly stated in the Bible or 2. You cannot hold God to the same standards as men, because in this case the grievance is enormous and I would not want to follow someone who was this petty/selfish/unethical according to the most basic parenting standards. In other words, as a parent, it is your responsibility to look out for the well being of your offspring. Not 1% or less of them, but all of them.
First of all, as I mentioned, it’s stated that God is all knowing (Psalm 139:2-6; Isaiah 40:13-14)
In Revelations it states that most of the earth will be destroyed in the endtime, and only a very small percentage of all of humanity that ever existed will make it into the kingdom of Heaven.
Now I ask you- if you were going to have 10 children, and you knew from far before the moment that you conceived them that 9 of them were going to CHOOSE TO BURN IN HELL, would you have 10 children?
Think carefully on this answer as not to be hypocritical. If you support or use birthcontrol in any manner, you are choosing in the opposite direction that God did.
I cannot ethically follow a God who plays games with his children, the end result of which is far more than 99% burning in hell.
Ahhh, your not atheist at all. You pissed off because of the ‘problem of evil’. You can’t know who is going to hell and who is not, why in the world would you think it is 99%? That’s just silly. I wouldn’t be religious if I thought that either.
You don’t deny God’s existence, you’re just pissed…“How could a loving God allow so much evil.” It is an age old problem, probably the biggest.
You aren’t going to be converted on a forumn, in a coffee shop or anywhere else. Each person’s journey is unique…Hell, I have friend of mine that turned the corner after a profound acid trip. He just saw things differently and it finally made some sense to him.
I can argue for the existence of God and you can argue against, and we can get pretty far into the discussion, but there is a lot we cannot know. WE can argue from the scientific perspective, at the quantum level, from the mathematical perspective, at the physical level, metaphysical level, and on and on.
Why don’t you ask God? You can ask push, and he is strong like bull, but he ain’t God and he cannot communicate to you like the Good Lord Himself.
As far as the bible many people read it and a lot just simply do not understand it. You can mine it and make it sound bad. Hell, I could mine “Chicken Soup for the soul” and make is sound like a tyrannical, murderous, violent composition, that’s the easy part.
[/quote]
So you’re a spiritual atheist? Man, that’s problematic stance. Anything metaphysical, much less spiritual, is a generally a nightmare for atheists because traditionally they are pure empiricists. I am not sure how you are reconciling that, tapping into the â??spiritual realm" usually leads to experience the source of the spirituality, hence God. You could call it energy, or it, or mother, or what ever, but it’s still just plain old God in the end.
I am not sure what school of thought of Christianity you came from, it is obviously a strict literal interpretation. These are very ancient texts especially in the case of old testament. Many of these things are stories to tell us about some aspect of God. â??He loves us so much he will kill of our enemies for us." â??He hates sin so much that he will destroy city for it" , etc. Those were the messages to come across.
Most of these stories are from an oral tradition and handed down. If you check the audience for which it was intended, they needed intrigue to keep them interested as they lived in a world of brutal routine. It more of the story of the Jewish people, it’s part story part history there’s really a lot to it.
Revelations also says there will be dragons with 7 heads and 10 horns and yada yada. I don’t get revelations and it’s really not important to me to do so. But I would worry myself about the 144,000. If that’s the case we’re done already.
But in the end is still sounds like your just mad at God for being a big meany. It sometimes bothers me too, but sometimes I get a glimpse of the purpose and order of it all. It’s a tiny glimpse but I admit I need it to keep goingâ?¦
