[quote]AdamC wrote:
So what is successful exactly?
[/quote]
Meeting ones goals
Success?
Besides health and family.
Checking out at the grocery store and not worrying how much it will cost.
Hi Dweezil,
You wrote:
I agree, and I wasn’t necessarily suggesting a long drawn out explanation of how one should budget their money. I was simply stating that it needed to be mentioned and that it’s importance needed to be emphasized. If you can’t budget your money well, then all of the other stuff just isn’t going to work.
Firstly, I really don’t agree with this notion that one needs to build their credit. Yes, it could come in handy if one needed to take out a loan. But, if you budget and invest your money right you shouldn’t need to do this. And yes, it is possible to buy a house without taking out a loan. It takes much longer, and requires that you know what you’re doing, but it can be done.
I would really warn you about using real estate debt to build your credit/wealth. Yes, it can work and I’m not saying that there aren’t people who have done this successfully. But, I also know several people personally who have had this come back to bite them in the ass.
Real estate is one of those rare investments that is pretty much gauranteed to continue to grow in value over a long enough period of time, and assuming that it is well maintained. But, also realize that you don’t actually own it, the bank/credit union/whoever you borrowed the money from does. They can at any point call in the loan. So, unless you happen to have almost a million dollars laying around then you are playing with fire. And I’ll admit that this doesn’t happen often, in fact it’s rare. But it can happen.
Well, as far as bargaining being a mostly dead mothod, that’s only partially true, and that’s only true in the U.S. If you go abroad (into the real countries, not the tourist areas) you’ll find that it’s still very much alive. It’s just that we as americans have been convinced that it is no longer possible to do, and we have not been taught to do so by our parents.
I agree that you can’t really bargain online (but then again you can’t pay for anything online using “the power of cash”) and that you can bargain at electronics store. But, you can also bargain at furniture stores, department stores, flea markets, farmers markets, car dealerships (although it’s much more effective when dealing with private sellers), and really pretty much eveywhere else, perhaps with the exception of restaurants.
It’s just that nobody ever does it. And the older generation has not taught the younger generation how to do it effectively.
Well, that’s why I’m here. To get insights and wisdom from others that I may myself have missed. Shouldn’t that be the point of communication anyhow? To help each other to become all that we can be.
[quote]"Let’s say you’re a woodworker. You like working with your hands, your father taught you how to build basic stuff when you were a kid. A couple of years ago you spend ages building an awesome deck with stylized awnings and you even created the furniture by hand. People keep telling you you should do it professionally.
You start doing it professionally, and you take a few orders. People generally want the same things. A desk, a table. Maybe you’ll start getting into bigger projects if you do it full time. What happens when you get backed up, and you have to make 5 tables that are exactly alike? Are you going to love it then?"[/quote]
Well, I can see where you’re coming from, but, if this individual has been doing all of the other necessary steps that they should have been taking, then it shouldn’t be any big deal. And yes, they most likely will still love doing it (supposing that they loved doing it in the first place). The problem is that this person’s father, although having taught him how to build things, didn’t teach him how to budget/invest his money. If he had, then there really shouldn’t be a problem.
That’s why it seems that we are all having to start from scratch once we reach working age. Our parents didn’t teach us how (and very likely didn’t know how to themselves) to budget and invest money. So, it’s up to us to change the direction of our “family tree” and head in the right direction. If we then can teach these lessons to our children, it will be just that much easier for them to continue along the right financial path, and then teach it to their children, and so on and so on.
You may certainly be right about that. Honestly I haven’t come to that crossroads yet, so I’ll definetely keep those words in mind. But as of yet I haven’t encountered anything that would lead me to believe that I will ever stop loving to do what I love to do.
I’m not so sure that your description of how professional athletes view their profession is necessarily true. Yes, I don’t doubt that it is true in some cases, but I think you’d find that in any profession. Those are the people who got into the profession purely for the money in the first place. Your example of the person who was pushed from a young age to practice, practice, practice to play in AAU leagues and do whatever it took to get noticed by scouts is not an example of someone who got into the profession because they loved to do it. That’s a person who was forced into the profession in order to make big money.
Of course they’re going to think of it as a business, that’s all it’s ever been to them. Perhaps there was a point way back when when they enjoyed playing the game. But they were forced into the profession and since that point have only seen it from a business viewpoint. This person also most likely didn’t come from a background of people who were financially intelligent, or well off. So, most likely to them, this was their only chance to “make it big” and live a financially wealthy existence. Of course that’s also a generalization and I realize that it’s not always the case.
But, there are also many examples of people who got into the sport because it was truly what they loved to do. Those people regardless of salary, endorsements, etc… continue to play the game because they love to do it. Not because they will make another couple million dollars or whatever. You still see examples of professional athletes actually taking pay cuts to stay with certain teams, or refusing endorsement contracts because they don’t agree with the company’s policies. These people are the ones who are still true to themselves and play the game for the love of it.
Sadly I’ll admit that they are becoming fewer and further between. But I think that’s an indication of just how astray our society has been lead in the area of finances.
Also, as far as musicians putting out the same old music on album after album (and this also applies to professional athletes who demand multimillion dollar contracts year after year) this once again points to a lack of financial intelligence and of course greed. Most likely the reason why these people continue to “need” more and more money is because they don’t know how to manage what money they have. The very first album that went gold, or multimillion dollar contract should have been enough to sustain these people for the rest of their lives.
Instead, because they have no idea how to manage their money, and because they spend it frivolously and impulsively (both indicators of a lack of financial intelligence) they wind up spending everything they had made, and therefore need to keep making more money to continue living thier greedy self absorbed impulsive lifestyle.
I gaurantee you that if you gave me even a million dollars that I would be able to live comfortably off of it for the rest of my life, even if I quite my job right then and there.
After that point I would definetely just do what I loved to do, and that is exactly what these individuals should be doing. I mean if you’re already set for life financially, wouldn’t it just make sense to do what you loved to do? Even if it wasn’t raking you in millions of dollars?
Well, I’m not going to argue that stress can wreak havoc on any area of your life, career included. But, I’m also not suggesting that anything is crystallized either. Say you’re teaching martial arts and you’re not teaching what others want to learn. Well, then either find people who do want to learn what you’re teaching (market yourself to a broader audience for example), change what you’re teaching, or perhaps find a better way to teach what you are teaching. Perhaps it’s your teaching style and not the material that is the problem.
I’m also not suggesting that you’re going to be able to fully support yourself by doing your dream vocation right off the bat. Sure, you may need to work at a “job” for a while until you reach the point where your vocation can sustain you. You may even choose to continue working at other part time jobs even when your vocation can sustain you in order to speed up your wealth building process, increase your quality of living, or perhaps afford something that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford.
Eventually though, if you really do put all of your effort into something that you love to do and you continue to get better and better at it. And you can humble yourself to be able to adapt to the demands of those who are paying you to do it. Then, at least in my opinion, you can succeed in doing it for a living.
Great discussion so far. Keep it coming.
Sentoguy
[quote]Mustang50 wrote:
Gents,
Ive stumbled unto this website and found the keys to become strong via structured programs and knowledge from over seas.
However other parts of my life are still lacking therefore I’m asking for help from people on here.
I want to be successfull! I have a struggling business and I havent finished school yet at the ripe old age of 27.
I feel like i’m in a video game were I can’t get to the next leval!!!
I followed a program for weights and became successful(in the weight room).
So are there any programs for “life” that one can follow to become a success in that area as well? Websites, books you name it…
Regards,
[/quote]
Compete. Always compete. I have achieved a lot more than I would ever have thought possible. And I think that - if I may be so bold as to call myself a “success” - my success comes from a burning, insane desire to win.
When I realized that “winning” could be applied to life, not just sports and games, etc. things really started popping for me. I think things will always go well for me because I consider myself a winner.
It’s funny. I was just talking to my wife about this the other day. For me the word “win” has almost a magical sound to me. It always has. She looked at me like I was crazy. But I think this philosophy has made me who I am.
WIN!
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
They can at any point call in the loan. So, unless you happen to have almost a million dollars laying around then you are playing with fire. And I’ll admit that this doesn’t happen often, in fact it’s rare. But it can happen.
[/quote]
I have never heard of a standard home mortgage being “called in.” There are more speculative types of loans, but if you have credit and a decent income, you shouldn’t be doing that anyway. If the bank/lending institution needs the cash, they would probably sell your mortgage to another institution. If they don’t, and you have a history of paying your mortgage on time, there’s no reason you couldn’t move your mortgage somewhere else. I really, really don’t think there’s anything to fear, there.
[quote]AdamC wrote:
So what is successful exactly?
[/quote]
To make as much (or as little) money as your heart desires. Only people who couldn’t make a lot of money say “Money isn’t important.” It’s just like the little guys who go around saying, “Thin is in.”
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Smarter than who? The average idiot on the street?
Certainly not smarter than their educated employees but less scrupulous, more cut throat and better connected is a great description.
Funny how all the schmucks working in cubes say this!
If you engineers are so smart, why haven’t you figured out a way to make mid-to-high six figures; and how to get out of a cubicle?[/quote]
I have my own office and I do well enough to own my nice house in a nice neighborhood.
We never make the huge bucks because we actually have work to do and cannot spend all our time stabbing people in the back and figuring ways to cut benefits.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
To make as much (or as little) money as your heart desires. Only people who couldn’t make a lot of money say “Money isn’t important.” It’s just like the little guys who go around saying, “Thin is in.”
[/quote]
Why is it so hard to admit that a little luck/nepotism/underhandedness goes into being a corporate executive, rather than pure, transcendent superiority?
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
There are examples of this, I am sure. Prove these three ingredients are required, though.[/quote]
Are there any examples that you can show where CEOs of large corporations were hired based on their IQ score and how nice they are?
I’m betting you find zero examles.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
They can at any point call in the loan. So, unless you happen to have almost a million dollars laying around then you are playing with fire. And I’ll admit that this doesn’t happen often, in fact it’s rare. But it can happen.
I have never heard of a standard home mortgage being “called in.” There are more speculative types of loans, but if you have credit and a decent income, you shouldn’t be doing that anyway. If the bank/lending institution needs the cash, they would probably sell your mortgage to another institution. If they don’t, and you have a history of paying your mortgage on time, there’s no reason you couldn’t move your mortgage somewhere else. I really, really don’t think there’s anything to fear, there.[/quote]
Hi Nephrom,
Well, yes you’re right if you are up to date then they most likely won’t single you out. But, if they are low on funds and you either have many loans out with them, or they decide to do a large scale “calling in”, basically they do it on a bunch of loans, then I know of instances where it has happened. Like I said, it’s not common place, and it probably won’t happen, but it could.
If however you miss a payment, or there is a big drop in the market, then you could be in trouble.
I’m not saying that real estate isn’t an effective way to build wealth, I’m just saying that actually buying the property rather than taking loans out on it is a better way to go. It can take longer, but all of the money coming in (aside from the money required for upkeep) is all yours, as opposed to having to pay the majority of it directly to the bank.
Good training,
Sentoguy
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
unearth wrote:
If the most intellingent amoung humans ran everything the world would be a much different place.
If the “most intelligent” are so intelligent, why haven’t they figured out a way to take over the world? Perhaps because they are not nearly as intelligent as they think!
[/quote]
Desire for power and intelligence do not go hand in hand.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Smarter than who? The average idiot on the street?
Certainly not smarter than their educated employees but less scrupulous, more cut throat and better connected is a great description.
Funny how all the schmucks working in cubes say this!
If you engineers are so smart, why haven’t you figured out a way to make mid-to-high six figures; and how to get out of a cubicle?[/quote]
I don’t want to put words in your mouth, so I’ll ask for clarification of your argument.
Are you saying that wealth directly correlates to intelligence, where the most intelligent are the wealthiest (i.e. Bill Gates is the most intelligent man alive)?
Please explain.
Making the most “money” or “winning” are not necessarily good measures of success… they are too shallow.
If you find yourself unhappy and whatever when you don’t have money, you’ll be surprised to find that you are the same person even if you do start to earn more money.
Our society places to much importance on monetary wealth, or the appearance of wealth, and too little on quality of life. They are not actually the same thing.
well for one dont take advice from people that arnt successful.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Firstly, I really don’t agree with this notion that one needs to build their credit. Yes, it could come in handy if one needed to take out a loan. But, if you budget and invest your money right you shouldn’t need to do this. And yes, it is possible to buy a house without taking out a loan. It takes much longer, and requires that you know what you’re doing, but it can be done.
I would really warn you about using real estate debt to build your credit/wealth. Yes, it can work and I’m not saying that there aren’t people who have done this successfully. But, I also know several people personally who have had this come back to bite them in the ass.
Real estate is one of those rare investments that is pretty much gauranteed to continue to grow in value over a long enough period of time, and assuming that it is well maintained. But, also realize that you don’t actually own it, the bank/credit union/whoever you borrowed the money from does. They can at any point call in the loan. So, unless you happen to have almost a million dollars laying around then you are playing with fire. And I’ll admit that this doesn’t happen often, in fact it’s rare. But it can happen.[/quote]
First off, calling debt due:
Most states (all of them, I think?) follow the lien theory of mortgage law which is basically the person with the mortgage owns the title of the house unless there is a foreclosure.
You miss a payment, you go into foreclosure, the mortgagee can push for acceleration. I also believe that the majority of states have various clauses that allow for late payments to save someone from a foreclosure, atleast laws like that exist where I invest.
Second, credit. I’m not using real estate to build credit. It may have a beneficial secondary effect, but my credit was solid before investing, and it would have been difficult for me to get favorable mortgages if it wasn’t. It can do more for credit than anything else (the higher the debt, the longer the history and the more on-time payments the better your credit), but that doesn’t mean you should look at it entirely as a credit building tool.
As for the processes by which you procure a house without an atypical loan, there are a few I’m aware of and I’m sure there are some I’m not, it’s not a road I’d travel down when first time buyers have so many incentives (pulling money out of IRAs without penalty, favorable mortgages that are government sponsored, etc) to go for an atypical mortgage.
Thirdly, the need to build credit. Some people come late to the game, or some people want to buy a house young. Credit plays a pivotal role in this. Credit plays a pivotal role in almost everything in the financial sector. You cannot take credit for granted, and even though I know you aren’t directly trying to say that it’s worth me pointing out the importance of it.
Things I didn’t think about. I don’t think I’d ever go in and argue with a car dealer though. If you’re buying new (you shouldn’t) you may as well go through the fleet manager online.
It wasn’t meant as an insult.
Even if you budget and invest your money correctly, you can still be overworked.
Anyone who excels in a profession that is on display publicly will eventually become somewhat jaded, it is the cost of living, and will eventually see it as a business. I’m sure Michael Jordan still cares for the sport of basketball, but you can’t tell me that every move he makes within that sport he doesn’t weigh as a business decision. It removes some purity from the initial joy of doing something.
Greed can supersede all of this. Not all musicians spent money willy nilly and have none left. They release what they are told to release because they want more. When you cross the line of producing something because you enjoy producing something and producing something because it will make you more money it’s not what it once was to you.
[quote]I’m also not suggesting that you’re going to be able to fully support yourself by doing your dream vocation right off the bat. Sure, you may need to work at a “job” for a while until you reach the point where your vocation can sustain you. You may even choose to continue working at other part time jobs even when your vocation can sustain you in order to speed up your wealth building process, increase your quality of living, or perhaps afford something that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford.
Eventually though, if you really do put all of your effort into something that you love to do and you continue to get better and better at it. And you can humble yourself to be able to adapt to the demands of those who are paying you to do it. Then, at least in my opinion, you can succeed in doing it for a living.[/quote]
I agree that if you dedicate a significant amount of time to something outside of a structured job (a structured job as in you advance on a standard or no pay raise schedule schedule with little opportunity for advancement, generally this would fall under the heading of a small company or a company with less than 25 employees) you can eventually be successful provided you don’t suffer from a terrible string of bad luck or you aren’t somehow sabotaged (external forces like a stock market crash, or rapid inflation in the cost of goods to supply your desired profession, etc) then you will eventually be successful.
But you’re going to have to do a lot of shit before you reach that point. I would argue, as far as the philosophy of quality of life is concerned, that if you keep your head down and trudge through shit long enough it won’t matter if you end up being successful doing what you enjoy because you’re going to have that taste of shit in your mouth for the rest of your life.
From a purely external viewpoint, working, and working, and working, and working until you make it in what you want to do may be admirable and ultimately desired as it leads to success, but from a first person viewpoint I would say there are times when a person would just be better accepting the position they eventually reach, saving and investing competently, and getting out as fast as possible and living life below the means they may have wanted to for the preservation of their sanity if not their soul.
[quote]unearth wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:
There are examples of this, I am sure. Prove these three ingredients are required, though.
Are there any examples that you can show where CEOs of large corporations were hired based on their IQ score and how nice they are?
I’m betting you find zero examles.[/quote]
carefully read what I wrote. carefully and then once more. never said that both those were required either.
You work hard, save money, make investments that give a solid return. Do things outside your normal work schedule that have the potential to payoff in the long run, be it buying a house to fix and resell, whatever.
At 23 I am investing about 25% of my monthly income, no questions. I am also working on some ventures on the web that may or may not pan out, but it doesn’t hurt to try.
You just have to look at where you are, where you want to be, when you want to get there, and how can you do it without sacrificing all your free time.
Oh yeah, don’t do quixtar/amway.
Maybe I have it wrong, I am still just a kid anyways, but I have people that I can go to for advice on these things, and they are helping me get to where I want to be in 10-15 years.
Why is it no one has mentioned winning the lottery? Wouldn’t that be easier than all of this “hard work to accomplish your goals” crap??
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
If you engineers are so smart, why haven’t you figured out a way to make mid-to-high six figures; and how to get out of a cubicle?[/quote]
Quite a few of the guys in my office are in that range, and most of the PE’s in my office are not in cubicles.
[quote]
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
To make as much (or as little) money as your heart desires. Only people who couldn’t make a lot of money say “Money isn’t important.” It’s just like the little guys who go around saying, “Thin is in.”
nephorm wrote:
Why is it so hard to admit that a little luck/nepotism/underhandedness goes into being a corporate executive, rather than pure, transcendent superiority?[/quote]
As for luck, there’s more than a little.
Also, looking only at successful people is a very bad way to get a clear picture of how to do things best on average – you get fooled by survivor bias if you don’t take into account people who acted the exact same way and failed – and how the percentages work out between the two categories for any given behavior.