Housing Bubble?

From page 1 of today’s WSJ – unfortunately the table doesn’t come through well, but DC is 3.3% of total national market value with only 1.8% of total national population. But at least we’re not LA, with 6.8% of value and 3.4% of population (NY was just behind…).

Booming Local Housing Markets
Weigh Heavily on Overall Sector

By GREG IP
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
June 20, 2005; Page A1

New federal housing data show that the nation’s most overheated local housing markets now make up such a large share of the total U.S. market that a sharp fall in their values could stall or slow national economic growth.

The 22 major metropolitan markets with the fastest-growing house prices account for 35% of the value of the nation’s residential real estate, but just a fifth of its population, says the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

Their share of the national real-estate market has risen quickly. In 2000, the 22 markets accounted for 27% of all U.S. residential real estate. In 1995, the figure was just 24%.

Some economists say local bubbles are less worrisome than a nationwide one because they are more likely to pop individually, in response to local events, reducing the national fallout. And Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan recently has said that the U.S. has no national housing bubble, but there are “signs of froth in some local markets.”

But the latest data suggest that real-estate values in the nation’s fastest-growing markets are getting so large that the distinction between them and the national market could become meaningless.

“It’s a widespread boom and has macro implications,” says Richard Brown, chief economist of the FDIC. “A slowdown would not only hurt these markets, but the U.S. as a whole.” (See related article.)

Says Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com, a consulting firm specializing in regional economic analysis, “If you tote up the metropolitan areas that are bubble-like, it’s closing in on half the housing stock. Another year of these price gains and I think it would qualify as a national house price bubble even though not every corner of the country is experiencing speculative activity.”

The FDIC considers a local market to be a boom market if it has appreciated 30% or more, adjusted for inflation, in the past three years. It says 55 of the country’s 362 local metropolitan markets qualified in 2004. Together, they accounted for roughly 40% of all the value of residential real estate in the country – up from about 30% in 2000.

The agency has detailed data for only 22 of those 55, though they include most of the largest and among the priciest of those 55 markets. The two largest metropolitan areas, New York and Los Angeles, each have a value of more than $1 trillion. Adding in the Boston, Washington, D.C., and San Diego metropolitan areas, the top five boom markets are valued at $4 trillion, or 24% of the national total, while those markets represent just 12% of the U.S. population of 294 million.

FDIC economists prepared the local estimates at the request of The Wall Street Journal. The FDIC is an independent federal agency that provides insurance for most bank deposits and regulates state-chartered banks that aren’t members of the Federal Reserve system.

The disproportionate concentration of housing wealth in a few markets is reminiscent of how a few technology and blue-chip companies drove the bull and bear markets in stocks starting in the late 1990s.

The Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index rose 45% from the end of 1997 to February 2000, but the average stock rose just 14%. Over the next three years, as technology companies plummeted, the index fell 36%, but the average stock fell just 2%, according to Aronson+Johnson+Ortiz, a Philadelphia money manager.

At the same time, houses are unlikely to fall anywhere near as sharply as stocks can. That’s because it’s costly for families to move, and sellers are more likely to take a house off the market if they can’t get an acceptable price.

If the 55 boom markets declined 15% while the rest of the country was flat, national housing prices would drop 6% – on a par, adjusted for inflation, with previous national housing pullbacks, but hardly a crash.

Unlike stocks, the housing market “would be more likely flat with 10% to 20% declines in some regions, or down slightly nationally with some regions looking ugly,” says Ethan Harris, chief U.S. economist at Lehman Brothers. Even local housing crashes take years to unfold, he says.

Still, a flat housing market could damp overall economic growth by restraining new construction and consumer spending financed by borrowing against home values. Mr. Harris estimates that if the overheated local markets declined 10% a year for three years, while the rest of the country rose 5% a year, it would reduce U.S. economic growth from 4% to about 2.5%.

Federal Reserve officials expect housing prices eventually to level off and restrain consumer spending. But they believe business investment and exports will increase by then and pick up the slack, maintaining overall growth for the U.S. economy.

Though the U.S. hasn’t experienced a serious, nationwide decline in home prices in the past three decades, many local markets have fallen sharply. Prices rose sharply in Southern California in the late 1980s, then collapsed in the early 1990s as the economy reeled from a national recession and deep cuts to defense spending.

“Our economy, especially in Los Angeles County, was devastated,” says Michael Bazdarich, senior economist at UCLA Anderson Forecast, an economic research center at the University of California at Los Angeles. The defense cuts alone would have caused a serious local recession, he says. But those cuts along with a reversal in home prices “combined to wreak havoc on the local economy.” The damage was amplified by mortgage defaults that brought down the region’s largest savings and loan institutions.

Mortgage defaults remain low, but a reversal in home prices could change that. Goldman Sachs mortgage analysts say a delinquent borrower in a rising market can use the equity in his home to qualify for a new loan, but loses that option when prices stagnate or decline.

Goldman Sachs studied the experience of Southern California’s Orange County, where subprime mortgages – those issued to less-creditworthy borrowers – issued in 1992 defaulted at far above the national average, while subprime mortgages issued in 1999, during the current boom, defaulted far less. They estimate that in a region with strong price appreciation now and a subprime default rate of about 1%, several years of declining prices could push defaults to 8% to 10%.

But analysts say even overheated local markets are unlikely to suffer as much as Southern California did a decade ago. The FDIC’s Mr. Brown defines a housing bust as a decline of 15% or more, unadjusted for inflation, over five years. For that to happen, he says, “historically, you need severe local economic conditions.” The markets where house prices are appreciating the most “are pretty well diversified economies” that don’t depend heavily on a single industry like defense or energy, he says.

However, the FDIC cautions that in the past year, national factors such as low mortgage rates and easier lending standards are displacing local factors in driving home prices, so previous experience may be less useful.

Mr. Zandi of Economy.com adds that local housing collapses in New England and Southern California in the late 1980s and early 1990s “infected the broader banking system.” Banks today are better capitalized, and thanks to consolidation, less exposed to any single region, he says. Moreover, banks have “securitized” many of their mortgages – that is, repackaged them as standalone securities and sold them to investors and to federally chartered companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

But for the same reason, he warns, “No one really has a grip on who has the risk.” If something goes wrong in the mortgage market, a lack of transparency could cause investors to shun good and bad borrowers alike, he says.

The low long-term interest rates of recent years are a key factor tying all local bubbles together in the U.S., says Edward Leamer, chief economist at the UCLA Anderson Forecast. If those rates rise sharply, they will “kill off those bubbles all at the same time.”

David Lereah, chief economist at the National Association of Realtors, says a local market becomes most vulnerable to collapse when it experiences rapid price appreciation, rising inventories of unsold homes and a high concentration of lending on loose terms, such as interest-only mortgages.

At present, he says, no market is experiencing a “meaningful” rise in inventories – in fact, the hottest markets tend to have less inventory than average. He says those markets also tend to have the most limited supply of new housing because of land shortages or regulatory constraints.

Write to Greg Ip at greg.ip@wsj.com

Las Vegas is also getting ridiculous in the condo market. Way too many people with several hundred grand to blow on a second or third home. As of today, I know of 55 different condo towers that are being planned.

I really hope the housing market hits bottom in about 5 years when I am looking to buy something.

[quote]hspder wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Thank you for putting numbers to what I was trying to say – I think your example illuminates it nicely.

You’re welcome!

BostonBarrister wrote:
BTW, are you an economics professor or a business-school professor?

Well, both…

My PhD dissertation (thesis) was on Microeconomy and Game Theory. I’m an Associate Professor of Economics currently teaching students on the MBA program at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business.

BostonBarrister wrote:
And for you to be even considering a move from Stanford to Seattle, I assume there would be some other factors involved other than just a change in scenery…

I’ll admit I can’t say I’m seriously considering Seattle yet. I’d give it a 20% chance at this point. I mentioned mainly to illustrate my point that a lot of people are no longer feeling that the Bay Area is “worth it”.

Also I can’t really describe what’s going on at Stanford’s GSB, but it’s basically “losing its magic”. A lot of the more brilliant academia and the best students are fleeing to other parts of the country, looking for a place where they can “breathe” better.

There’s a lot of political discussion going on too, and I don’t necessarily like the way it’s going.

That builds a lot on my frustration, of course, since it’s the interaction with students and academia that makes this job interesting.

One alternative I have is completing my forever-in-progress PhD thesis on String Theory and move back to the School of Humanities and Sciences. However that could quickly backfire because they’re focusing on bio-tech and even though Stanford has a particle accelerator all the “fun with muons” is to be had at Europe’s CERN these days.

The other dillemma is that the GSB is offering me a lot of money to stay.

So I have to decide betwen beeing rich with dumb students, poor with unknown students or middle-class with average students and crappy weather.

Decisions, decisions…
[/quote]

What do you mean by dumb students? Unmotivated?
And how does one school’s students differ from another’s? I would think you’d find all types of students no matter where you teach.

And what is rich? Is the GSB offering THAT much more money that you will qualify as rich? Just curious is all…

In all honesty, this bubble is not going to burst as long as we have people willing to burn all their income on a home, just so that their kids can have access to a decent high school. Our Governator might effectively push the market even further if he fails to inject a LOT more money into Public Schools, and making the “hot spots” – like Palo Alto and Cupertino – even hotter.

  • I laugh my ass off at “parents” who only want to live in certain zip codes so their children have access to the “best” schools. I read an article recently, in the NYorker I think, where a real estate agent talks about how parents in Silicon valley hand them maps with streets comprising a certain school district outlined. These people then say " find me something in this district.’ The kind of house and cost is secondary to the school district!

I’m a jr. high teacher, and I think these people are unbelievably lazy and irresposible. What they are saying when they limit themselves to only the “best school districts’ is this: I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY CHILD’S EDUCATION. IN TYPICAL AMERICAN FASHION, I EXPECT MONEY TO SOLVE EVERY PROBLEM AND DO EVERYTHING FOR ME. I PAY TOP DOLLAR FOR MY HOUSE BECAUSE ITS IN A GREAT SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND SO MY CHILDREN WILL BECOME GREAT STUDENTS THANKS TO THEIR TEACHERS. IF THEY BECOME MEDIOCRE, AND END UP IN A STATE SCHOOL, IT IS THE SCHOOL’S FAULT. I PAID BIG MONEY FOR THIS HOUSE AND DISTRICT, DAMMIT! MY CHILD SHOULD BE IN WHARTON SOB!!”

“The best school district is a parent who is proactive in their child’s education, pushes them to succeed, instills academic discipline and awakens intellectual curiosity.”

  • copyright Sonny S, 2005

Two of my biggest pet peeves are people who assume that money will solve their problems, and that refuse to accept responsibility for their own situations and lives. When you are a parent, that extends to taking responsibility for their children’s situation.

BTW, I became a homeowner on June 2nd :slight_smile:

Mortage payments here I come!

Sorry BB, didn’t mean to kill your thread with my rant!

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
What do you mean by dumb students? Unmotivated?[/quote]

Not unmotivated – let’s call them “People that are unwilling or unable to think in logical or scientific terms”. Which, considering I teach Economy (a science) presents a huge challenge.

And if you’re wondering how these people event get accepted into the GSB, remember that many people are extremely successful by being good at selling themselves and “winning” discussions – using very good people skills – even if they have no idea what they’re talking about.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
And how does one school’s students differ from another’s? I would think you’d find all types of students no matter where you teach. [/quote]

I’d think that too, but reality is quite different; different schools attract different people from different regions.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
And what is rich? Is the GSB offering THAT much more money that you will qualify as rich? Just curious is all…[/quote]

That’s a complex discussion right there (not all my income comes from my salary – actually only a small part of it), but in broad terms, staying at Stanford was indeed the smarter economical decision, especially because they still let me go to other places for some quarters to do research, like this one, where I’m at Princeton (quite near your neighborhood – a couple of weekends ago my wife and I actually drove up to Hoboken and took the PATH to Manhattan on both days and spent them there. One of my favorite places in the world, actually, I spend as much time as I can up there…).

[quote]Sonny S wrote:

  • I laugh my ass off at “parents” who only want to live in certain zip codes so their children have access to the “best” schools. I read an article recently, in the NYorker I think, where a real estate agent talks about how parents in Silicon valley hand them maps with streets comprising a certain school district outlined. These people then say " find me something in this district.’ The kind of house and cost is secondary to the school district!

I’m a jr. high teacher, and I think these people are unbelievably lazy and irresposible. What they are saying when they limit themselves to only the “best school districts’ is this: I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY CHILD’S EDUCATION. IN TYPICAL AMERICAN FASHION, I EXPECT MONEY TO SOLVE EVERY PROBLEM AND DO EVERYTHING FOR ME. I PAY TOP DOLLAR FOR MY HOUSE BECAUSE ITS IN A GREAT SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND SO MY CHILDREN WILL BECOME GREAT STUDENTS THANKS TO THEIR TEACHERS. IF THEY BECOME MEDIOCRE, AND END UP IN A STATE SCHOOL, IT IS THE SCHOOL’S FAULT. I PAID BIG MONEY FOR THIS HOUSE AND DISTRICT, DAMMIT! MY CHILD SHOULD BE IN WHARTON SOB!!”

“The best school district is a parent who is proactive in their child’s education, pushes them to succeed, instills academic discipline and awakens intellectual curiosity.”

  • copyright Sonny S, 2005[/quote]

Amen.

I hereby elect the above as one of the best posts ever on this forum and proceed to print it out and take it with me back to Stanford and staple it on every Realtor office I can find within a 100 mile radius. :slight_smile:

Now seriously man, if everyone there realized the same as you do, we’d be in much better shape as a region.

And congrats on becoming an owner over there in the Tri-State area. This region rocks, and if it weren’t for the weather, some slight logistical problems, and the fact that both the NY and the NJ Governors suffer from severe mental disabilities (irrespective of their parties – the Governator might be silly sometimes, but at least he has a brain inside his skull) I’d move here in a split second.

After the fall

Jun 16th 2005
From The Economist print edition

Soaring house prices have given a huge boost to the world economy. What happens when they drop?

PERHAPS the best evidence that America’s house prices have reached dangerous levels is the fact that house-buying mania has been plastered on the front of virtually every American newspaper and magazine over the past month. Such bubble-talk hardly comes as a surprise to our readers. We have been warning for some time that the price of housing was rising at an alarming rate all around the globe, including in America. Now that others have noticed as well, the day of reckoning is closer at hand. It is not going to be pretty. How the current housing boom ends could decide the course of the entire world economy over the next few years.

This boom is unprecedented in terms of both the number of countries involved and the record size of house-price gains. Measured by the increase in asset values over the past five years, the global housing boom is the biggest financial bubble in history (see article In come the waves | The Economist ). The bigger the boom, the bigger the eventual bust.

Throughout history, financial bubbles?whether in houses, equities or tulip bulbs?have continued to inflate for longer than rational folk believed possible. In many countries around the globe, house prices are already at record levels in relation to rents and incomes. But, as demonstrated by dotcom shares at the end of the 1990s, some prices could yet rise even higher. It is impossible to predict when prices will turn. Yet turn they will. Prices are already sliding in Australia and Britain. America’s housing market may be a year or so behind.

Many people protest that house prices are less vulnerable to a meltdown. Houses, they argue, are not paper wealth like shares; you can live in them. Houses cannot be sold as quickly as shares, making a price crash less likely. It is true that house prices do not plummet like a brick. They tend to drift downwards, more like a brick with a parachute attached. But when they land, it still hurts. And there is a troubling similarity between the house-price boom and the dotcom bubble: investors have been buying houses even though rents will not cover their interest payments, purely in the expectation of large capital gains?just as investors bought shares in profitless firms in the late 1990s, simply because prices were rising.

Homes as cash machines

One other big difference between houses and shares is more cause for concern than comfort: people are much more likely to borrow to buy a house than to buy shares. In most countries, the recent surge in house prices has gone hand-in-hand with a much larger jump in household debt than in previous booms. Not only are new buyers taking out bigger mortgages, but existing owners have increased their mortgages to turn capital gains into cash which they can spend. As a result of such borrowing, housing booms tend to be more dangerous than stockmarket bubbles, and are often followed by periods of prolonged economic weakness. A study by the IMF found that output losses after house-price busts in rich countries have, on average, been twice as large as those after stockmarket crashes, and usually result in a recession.

The economic damage this time could be worse than in the past because house prices are more likely to fall in nominal, not just real terms. Not only do houses in many countries look more overvalued than at previous peaks, but with inflation so low, prices would have to stay flat for at least a decade to bring real prices back to long-run average values. Most important of all, in many countries this house-price boom has been driven far more by investors than in the past, and if prices start to dip, they are more likely to sell than owner-occupiers. In America this could mean the first fall in average house prices since the Great Depression. Owners who have been using their home like an ATM to extract cash, or who were relying on rising house prices to provide them with a comfortable pension, will suddenly realise that they need to start saving the old-fashioned way?by spending less of their income.

The Fed frets

The lesson from recent experience in Australia, Britain and the Netherlands is that, contrary to conventional wisdom, a big rise in interest rates is not necessary to make house prices falter. This is bad news for America. Even if prices there initially just flatten rather than fall, this will hurt consumer spending as the impulse to borrow against capital gains disappears. It is by encouraging such borrowing that rising house prices have given a bigger boost to America’s economy than elsewhere. Two-fifths of all American jobs created since 2001 have been in housing-related sectors such as construction, real-estate lending and broking. If house prices actually fall, this boost will turn into a substantial drag.

No wonder that the Federal Reserve is starting, belatedly, to fret about house prices. By holding interest rates low for so long after equities crashed, the Fed helped to inflate house prices. This prevented a deep recession, but it may have merely delayed the needed economic adjustments. Ideally, the Fed should have tried to cool the housing boom by raising interest rates sooner and by giving clear verbal warnings to buyers, as Britain’s and Australia’s central banks have done. Even now some stern words from Alan Greenspan, the Fed’s chairman, could restrain more house-price inflation.

Of course, by the time American prices begin to fall, probably sometime next year, they will not be Mr Greenspan’s headache. He will have retired and someone else will be in his job. If weaker house prices push the economy towards recession, the awkward truth is that America’s policymakers will have much less room to manoeuvre than they did after the stockmarket bubble burst. Short-term interest rates of only 3% leave less scope for cuts. In 2000, America had a budget surplus. Today it has a large deficit, ruling out big tax cuts.

The whole world economy is at risk. The IMF has warned that, just as the upswing in house prices has been a global phenomenon, so any downturn is likely to be synchronised, and thus the effects of it will be shared widely. The housing boom was fun while it lasted, but the biggest increase in wealth in history was largely an illusion.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
Two of my biggest pet peeves are people who assume that money will solve their problems, and that refuse to accept responsibility for their own situations and lives. When you are a parent, that extends to taking responsibility for their children’s situation.

BTW, I became a homeowner on June 2nd :slight_smile:

Mortage payments here I come![/quote]

Are you still in NY, or are you in the Bay Area? I noted your Bay Area references, and references to the Governator?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Are you still in NY, or are you in the Bay Area? I noted your Bay Area references, and references to the Governator?[/quote]

Those were quotes from my posts, BB… :slight_smile:

Aha. I’s gonna have to learn him about the quote function…

[quote]research, like this one, where I’m at Princeton (quite near your neighborhood – a couple of weekends ago my wife and I actually drove up to Hoboken and took the PATH to Manhattan on both days and spent them there. One of my favorite places in the world, actually, I spend as much time as I can up there…).
[/quote]

As I read your quote, I have a smile ear-to-ear because one of the reasons I purchased my condo in jersey City is its a 15 minute walk to the PATH, which should help come resell time or when it comes to finding rommmates.

Also, there is no problem with street parking, which is great for me since I drive to work.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
As I read your quote, I have a smile ear-to-ear because one of the reasons I purchased my condo in jersey City is its a 15 minute walk to the PATH, which should help come resell time or when it comes to finding rommmates.

Also, there is no problem with street parking, which is great for me since I drive to work.
[/quote]

Smart guy! Buying close to public transit is always smart – it’s the kind of location that will keep more of its value even in a recession, especially with rising oil prices…

Are you willing to share with us how much you paid for the condo? Just curious… Something like that (incl. the closeness to public transit) would cost about $400k in San Jose these days, so I was wondering how much it would be up in Jersey City…

(by the way, I’m still in Princeton – but leaving at the end of the month. I might go up to NYC again this weekend…).

No, I don’t mind. I paid 154 K for a somewhat large (930 sq. foot) condo.
Its a 2 bedroom, but since it had a large separate LR, I converted it into a 3rd bedroom.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

hoosierdaddy wrote:

My parents bought our 2500 sq ft house in Northern VA for 160k roughly 13 yeras ago. It’s worth a little under 800k now. Don’t beleive me? Ask barrister what nova real-estate is like, esp the fairfax county region.

Marmadogg wrote:

The appreciation your parents have realized will not continue and the sad fact is fairfax county is one of the few areas that is due for a correction.

Your parents should sell now and pocket the money.

The market here is indeed insane, and it seems to be one of those that most people (of those who think there are local bubbles) think will experience a correction, otherwise known as a large loss of the paper value.

Given though, if your parents have held for 13 years they should still keep a good bit of their appreciation – just maybe not a lot of it from the last few years.

Really, if I were in their position I would definitely consider selling – I’d rent and I’d put the capital gain into a nicely diversified set of mutual funds.

But then again maybe they just really love their house, and want to live in it for another 15 years – in that case, I’m sure they’re ignoring all the hubbub.[/quote]

Don?t you think your statement is a bit presumptuous there are many different factors that will determine property value? An example being fuel costs. Or a European trend to charge for road use. These are factors that have never been present before.

In my opinion, there may be some type of correction. But our government, banks and large financial institutions won?t let it collapse. That would put them all out of business. Rather than a correction it could balance back out by a long stagnant period.

[quote]Soco wrote:
Las Vegas is also getting ridiculous in the condo market. Way too many people with several hundred grand to blow on a second or third home. As of today, I know of 55 different condo towers that are being planned.

I really hope the housing market hits bottom in about 5 years when I am looking to buy something. [/quote]

Phoenix is comparable market wise. Phoenix and Vegas are driven by California investors. I have a friend in Oxnard Cal. That spent $450,000 for a very modest home. So investors come to Vegas or Phoenix they think they died and went to heaven.