I don’t recall “endorsing” gay marriage actually, though I probably tend to lean toward letting 2 people who want to spend the rest of their lives together do so with the same benefits (tax and financial-related, etc.) as any other 2 people who want to do so. Again, if you take child rearing out of the equation and are just talking about a couple wanting to be together, to me that’s a no-brainer, case-closed, let them be together and don’t discriminate against them because they are who they are. Whether the state should formally use the word “marriage” to describe their union . . . I don’t know; maybe, maybe not. I don’t really care, personally, so I’ll let everyone else fight over the semantics.
But minus the kid issue, I have no problem with them being together, living together and having all the same benefits, and neither SHOULD you, because at some point it becomes pretty shitty to instill on people your VERSION of what is and isn’t “moral” in such a way that it oppresses them for something that most agree nowadays is not something of their choice. You mean to tell me that trying to artificially force someone who’s clearly wired to be gayer than gay to live a phony sham life and put on a front of getting married, having kids, etc., only for it all to blow up years down the road, and the chaos that that causes – you mean to tell me you think that’s a BETTER way??
As for your slippery slope argument regarding drug users as being analagous to gays, it’s not even apples and oranges – it’s further than that, so as to be completely irrelevant. (a.) Drug users don’t start out addicted to drugs. They’re not going to be addicted to a substance before they even tried it. So at some point, usually in adulthood or adolescence, they made a conscience choice to go down that unwise path, which ultimately ended up in them getting addicted. Very different than someone who’s hard-wired to be gay. They WERE wired that way to begin with. If you’re a gay guy, you get wood over men, not over women. Might seem weird, but it’s reality. (b.) Drug use is indeed harmful to the greater good of society as it costs money not only to treat drug users (therapy, hospital visits, etc.) but also in that it ruins lives when otherwise productive people crash down that path of addiction and sometimes lose everything (job, family, money, etc). Furthermore, there is a direct correlation between drug use/dealing and other crime in an area. I.e., a crappy neighborhood where there’s lots of drug dealing going on will also have lots of gun crime, prostitution, murder, violence, etc. Funny, I don’t think that stuff is a huge problem in the Chelsea district of NYC or the Castro in San Francisco . . . . 
Now, one COULD get into the whole argument for legalization of drugs, but that’s a whole other issue. (Not that I’m sure where I stand on that – I haven’t done enough research into it).
[quote]tedro wrote:
Damici wrote:
I pretty much agree with all of with Malonetd said. Tedro, other than throwing your own idea of “morals” into the equation (which not everyone necessarily agrees with) you haven’t really made any argument. You made a couple of claims, but they’re just that – can you provide any evidence to back up the idea about which children grow up to be more “quality” and law-abiding? I haven’t seen any yet.
I didn’t expect to change your mind, I was just supplying you with arguements. You are correct in that these arguments are simply claims, as providing proof for which types of families will raise the best generation would be nearly impossible. I can only ask you to use your best judgement and decide for yourself whether or not children are better off with two heterosexual parents? I’m not saying all gays make bad parents, rather that children need a male and a female influence, and it is in the best interest of society to encourage this traditional family.
As for the slippery slope argument, that never held an ounce of weight with me. Sex with minors or with animals has never and will never be justified in any modern Western society, nor do I see one iota of reason to fear that it ever will be. Sex outside of marriage is just fine with me – I have plenty of it, and will continue to do so, thank you very much. Bottom line: as long as everyone is consenting and everyone is of legal age, people should be allowed to do whatever the fuck that want. It’s not your business (or mine).
You are free to make whatever decisions you want, but do you think that these desicions make you a very good role model?
You’re final argument leads to another slippery slope, one that the libertarians are probably ok with. Drug users are consenting and do not hurt anybody else, should we legalize all of them?
The ONE argument that might have some credibility to it in my eyes – and I’m not sure how I feel about this – is when you get into the subject of raising kids and whether or not gay couples should be able to do so. I’m not sure where I fall out on that. I would have to think that the ideal situation is for them to be raised in a stable, heterosexual family by a man and a woman, and to have both influences in their upbringing. But are there gay couples that’ve raised perfectly stable, smart, sane, good (and usually straight, believe it or not) kids? Yeah, there are. Is that better than being raised in a bad, neglectful or abusive hetero household? Of course. But I wouldn’t say that it’s ideal. Not sure where I fall out on this aspect of it.
I am sure that there are many gay couples out there that would make much better parents than some of the heterosexual parents. The fact is that by endorsing gay marriage you are encouraging this type of family.
BUT, as far as gay couples just wanting to live and be together, away from them having kids, I couldn’t care less, and neither should you.
I’ve respected your opinion and have not told you what you should and shouldn’t care about, I ask you to do the same. I care because I want my children and grandchildren and their children to live in a free, moral America. I don’t want the gay agenda shoved down their throat. I don’t want some liberal-hippie-commies controlling this country and crying every time somebody may be slightly offended. I want them to live in a free society where people are moral, respectful, and just.
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That’s because humans are hard-wired to desire (and HAVE sex). You wouldn’t want to be forced by society to have to live a life of celibacy one bit, so why do you feel you can take it upon yourself to try to force others to do so? Because YOUR “morals” tell you that it’s somehow “wrong,” and you shall therefore ban them from doing so, or else suffer the consequences??