Homosexual Propaganda Exposed

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
But there is no gay marriage amendment to the federal constitution so it’s not unconstitutional. And the founders would be horrified at such a notion. They’d consider my views radical and ultra liberal.
[/quote]

Marriage is a state issue but the 14th Amendment opines that “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

Not allowing homosexuals the same legal benefits as heterosexual married couples is near impossible to defend, legally, based on the pretext of that amendment. This was the same amendment used by the Supreme Court to strike down legal bans on interracial marriage (i.e., anti-miscegenation laws) in the landmark Loving v. Virginia case in the mid-1960s.

Granted, the historical background is different where interracial marriage bans are concerned, which is why the appellate courts have cautiously interpreted its application to same-sex marriage cases, BUT you can’t make the argument that disallowing same-sex couples the same privileges as heterosexual couples, be it in the form of a marriage or civil union, is a deprivation of the liberty of said consenting adults (liberty of choice in a marriage partner with applicable equal benefits )sans the due process of law.

On a side note, I think the word homophobia is poorly applied to debates like this. Most people likely do NOT have an irrational fear of homosexuals or same-sex sexual behavior, even those that have a personal, moral objection to said behavior; therefore, implying that someone is a homophobe is a brass assumption that someone has an anxiety disorder in the form of a phobia, which is a rash judgement unless you are a clinical psychologist who has diagnosed that person. I think the misuse of the word does everyone a disservice on both sides of the argument and, quite frankly, it’s a standard ad hominem crutch that usually has no place in a legitimate debate.
[/quote]

I’m not against giving legal rights to gays in same sex unions. I’m against recognising same sex marriage. To recognise same sex marriage is to change the very definition of what marriage is, and has been for thousands of years. Pursuit of happiness could be interpreted as almost anything. Should we allow a father to marry his adult daughter by mutual consent? They’re just pursuing happiness right? I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.

[quote]H factor wrote:
So Sex just happened to stumble upon three completely far right websites tailored to the type of thinking he is espousing in this thread by google?

He didn’t click on the first, second, third, or fifth image, but the 4th one. The one that is from a disgusting website like spearhead?

Also he didn’t search with web for that, but images?

He “magically” happened to have the three links for the stuff we are talking about in this thread be from obscure websites that place an emphasis on the type of things we are talking about but from extreme points of views similar to what he has espoused throughout the thread.

Someone got caught. Someone is trying really hard to say “it’s not what you think it is!” It was an accident. I just happened to be wearing a white sheet the same night as those guys!

You’d have to be an idiot to think this was an accident, but Sex is going to try and play that card because he can’t play any other one. He got exposed.

[/quote]

Lol! You’re really insane aren’t you? Desperately trying to ‘expose’ me and paint me as an extremist. I’m just a supporter of traditional marriage. Not a fucking klansman. Good grief…

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I doubt that. They were very much against slavery but didn’t have the support to outlaw it at the time.
[/quote]

George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Patrick Henry were all slave-owners.[/quote]

I know.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I’m not against giving legal rights to gays in same sex unions. I’m against recognising same sex marriage. To recognise same sex marriage is to change the very definition of what marriage is, and has been for thousands of years. Pursuit of happiness could be interpreted as almost anything. Should we allow a father to marry his adult daughter by mutual consent? They’re just pursuing happiness right? I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]

How is it any different than changing the definition of marriage based on race? At one time you couldn’t legally marry someone of the opposite race under the legal definition of marriage.

The state’s recognition of marriage being something different than what the church recognizes does not erode the church’s teaching in scripture, and churches should be under no legal obligation to perform ceremonies that violate their fundamental beliefs or principles. I completely understand the concerns about the erosion of marriage, and while I think it’s a valid argument, I don’t personally see how it is legally defensible to continue to forbid marriage between two consenting adults.

The incest issue raises different questions not really pertinent to the debate, because as a culture there is virtually no one who is advocating for being granted the right to marry his or her own child, notwithstanding the procreative genetic issues with offspring of said marriage - i.e., a third party could (child) be involved to his or her detriment with no say in the matter. There are, however, millions of homosexuals in legal limbo here.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
News flash: homosexuals want to gain acceptance as human beings in our society and are using “tactics” to do so; film at 11. [/quote]

I do accept homosexuals as human beings. I just don’t accept their behaviour and lifestyles.[/quote]
OK, and?

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]
We hate what we fear.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Lol! You’re really insane aren’t you? Desperately trying to ‘expose’ me and paint me as an extremist. I’m just a supporter of traditional marriage. Not a fucking klansman. Good grief…
[/quote]

Exposing you? By looking at the websites you link us to in a thread? By wondering if the websites you read is why you have some of the thoughts you do? You never really addressed that despite me asking you about it multiple times.

Ok Sex I want to believe that you aren’t a regular reader of those type of websites because you agree they are horrific right? You accidentally found your way there because no way would you actually want to read those type of sites?

I mean can we at least agree on how bad those places are? You can agree that the messages and musings of what is found on the websites you linked to are disgusting and vile? Would you agree?

[quote]JR249 wrote:

How is it any different than changing the definition of marriage based on race? At one time you couldn’t legally marry someone of the opposite race under the legal definition of marriage.

[/quote]

Marriage is between one man and one woman. Race has nothing to do with it. Inter racial marriage being illegal was an historical anomaly.

But the state also defines marriage as between man and woman. And so it should as it is in the interest of the civil society to do so.

Well they already are. Radical gay activists are prosecuting religious people for refusing to participate in gay weddings. Which shows exactly the kind of danger the gay rights movement represents to civil society.

We don’t allow fathers to marry their adult daughters by mutual consent. There are many kinds of sexual behaviour that the state regulates.

NAMBLA has been pushing for the ‘right’ to molest children. Mormons and others have pushed for the ‘right’ to engage in polygamy. It doesn’t mean we should allow it.

As I’ve said I don’t have anything against extending all the same rights to people in gay unions. However I don’t accept gay marriage.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]
We hate what we fear. [/quote]

Really? I fear G-d but I don’t hate him.

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Lol! You’re really insane aren’t you? Desperately trying to ‘expose’ me and paint me as an extremist. I’m just a supporter of traditional marriage. Not a fucking klansman. Good grief…
[/quote]

Exposing you? By looking at the websites you link us to in a thread? By wondering if the websites you read is why you have some of the thoughts you do? You never really addressed that despite me asking you about it multiple times.

Ok Sex I want to believe that you aren’t a regular reader of those type of websites because you agree they are horrific right? You accidentally found your way there because no way would you actually want to read those type of sites?

I mean can we at least agree on how bad those places are? You can agree that the messages and musings of what is found on the websites you linked to are disgusting and vile? Would you agree? [/quote]

Some of things you quoted from the sites I strongly disagree with. For example preventing girls from obtaining higher education. My mother was an academic for 40 years and one of the smartest people I have ever known.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]
We hate what we fear. [/quote]

Really? I fear G-d but I don’t hate him.[/quote]
Maybe you have reason to fear Him.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Lol! You’re really insane aren’t you? Desperately trying to ‘expose’ me and paint me as an extremist. I’m just a supporter of traditional marriage. Not a fucking klansman. Good grief…
[/quote]

Exposing you? By looking at the websites you link us to in a thread? By wondering if the websites you read is why you have some of the thoughts you do? You never really addressed that despite me asking you about it multiple times.

Ok Sex I want to believe that you aren’t a regular reader of those type of websites because you agree they are horrific right? You accidentally found your way there because no way would you actually want to read those type of sites?

I mean can we at least agree on how bad those places are? You can agree that the messages and musings of what is found on the websites you linked to are disgusting and vile? Would you agree? [/quote]

Some of things you quoted from the sites I strongly disagree with. For example preventing girls from obtaining higher education. My mother was an academic for 40 years and one of the smartest people I have ever known.[/quote]

So you wouldn’t read sites like Mass Resistance or Spearhead?

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]
We hate what we fear. [/quote]

Really? I fear G-d but I don’t hate him.[/quote]
Maybe you have reason to fear Him. [/quote]

We all do.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]
We hate what we fear. [/quote]

Really? I fear G-d but I don’t hate him.[/quote]
Maybe you have reason to fear Him. [/quote]

We all do.
[/quote]
No, we don’t. That’s what Jesus taught us.

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Lol! You’re really insane aren’t you? Desperately trying to ‘expose’ me and paint me as an extremist. I’m just a supporter of traditional marriage. Not a fucking klansman. Good grief…
[/quote]

Exposing you? By looking at the websites you link us to in a thread? By wondering if the websites you read is why you have some of the thoughts you do? You never really addressed that despite me asking you about it multiple times.

Ok Sex I want to believe that you aren’t a regular reader of those type of websites because you agree they are horrific right? You accidentally found your way there because no way would you actually want to read those type of sites?

I mean can we at least agree on how bad those places are? You can agree that the messages and musings of what is found on the websites you linked to are disgusting and vile? Would you agree? [/quote]

Some of things you quoted from the sites I strongly disagree with. For example preventing girls from obtaining higher education. My mother was an academic for 40 years and one of the smartest people I have ever known.[/quote]

So you wouldn’t read sites like Mass Resistance or Spearhead? [/quote]

I would read them critically. Mass Resistance has an enormous amount of information on the gay rights movement. I have read it in the past. However as I stated I came across Spearhead for the first time yesterday whilst looking for a graph of marriage rates during a discussion about them in this thread.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Well they already are. Radical gay activists are prosecuting religious people for refusing to participate in gay weddings. Which shows exactly the kind of danger the gay rights movement represents to civil society.

As I’ve said I don’t have anything against extending all the same rights to people in gay unions. However I don’t accept gay marriage.[/quote]

Where in the U.S. has a church been criminally or civilly prosecuted for performing a gay marriage? I’d be interested in valid evidence for this.

I may be wrong, but it appears that you believe that changing the legal definition of marriage erodes its scriptural sacredness. However, marriage is both a legal and ceremonial process. The two are often coterminous, but it is also possible to have one without the other - e.g., I can get married at the courthouse without having to step foot in a church, and I could have a rabbi, priest, pastor, etc. perform a ceremonial, religious marriage without obtaining the formal legal recognition of being married.

There are a lot of scriptural references in the Bible to government, and nowhere does it command a theocracy. In fact, Christ said his kingdom was not of this world. Consequently, having a man-made revision of the legal concept of marriage doesn’t change the scriptural context, but I think we have to agree to disagree because everyone is obviously adamant of their own opinions in this thread and no one is going to change.

Perhaps Ron Paul’s idea has the most merit here. His suggestion is to get the government out of the marriage business altogether. This means that states legally call the process a “civil union,” and define it as the state wishes, as long as it does not violate the 14th Amendment. Hence, if you obtain a certificate of civil union at the local courthouse, gay or straight, you can opt to have a marriage ceremony in a separate venue, e.g., a church, a temple, the free-thought place of congregation, etc., but marriage ceremonies would be just that, and not a term any longer sanctioned by law. The benefits of civil unions remain coterminous to those of marriage, but it keeps the state neutral where the actual term “marriage” is concerned.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Lol! You’re really insane aren’t you? Desperately trying to ‘expose’ me and paint me as an extremist. I’m just a supporter of traditional marriage. Not a fucking klansman. Good grief…
[/quote]

Exposing you? By looking at the websites you link us to in a thread? By wondering if the websites you read is why you have some of the thoughts you do? You never really addressed that despite me asking you about it multiple times.

Ok Sex I want to believe that you aren’t a regular reader of those type of websites because you agree they are horrific right? You accidentally found your way there because no way would you actually want to read those type of sites?

I mean can we at least agree on how bad those places are? You can agree that the messages and musings of what is found on the websites you linked to are disgusting and vile? Would you agree? [/quote]

Some of things you quoted from the sites I strongly disagree with. For example preventing girls from obtaining higher education. My mother was an academic for 40 years and one of the smartest people I have ever known.[/quote]

So you wouldn’t read sites like Mass Resistance or Spearhead? [/quote]

I would read them critically. Mass Resistance has an enormous amount of information on the gay rights movement. I have read it in the past. However as I stated I came across Spearhead for the first time yesterday whilst looking for a graph of marriage rates during a discussion about them in this thread.
[/quote]

And none of the stuff I posted about Mass Resistance gives you hesitation about supporting the website? None of it gives you hesitation to read it when it doesn’t even attempt to hide its bias? Being against helping bullied gay kids, filming people as they walk in the bathroom, none of this makes you think you know these people are actual lunatics and I shouldn’t support this kind of hate? When you use the term radical gay activists would you not call these activities radical anti-gay advocates?

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]
We hate what we fear. [/quote]

Really? I fear G-d but I don’t hate him.[/quote]
Maybe you have reason to fear Him. [/quote]

We all do.
[/quote]
No, we don’t. That’s what Jesus taught us. [/quote]

Uh huh…

‘I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.’ - Luke 12:4-5

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I agree with you about homophobia. The Greek phobos means fear. However in modern parlance a homophobe is used to refer to someone with a hatred of homosexuals.[/quote]
We hate what we fear. [/quote]

Really? I fear G-d but I don’t hate him.[/quote]
Maybe you have reason to fear Him. [/quote]

We all do.
[/quote]
No, we don’t. That’s what Jesus taught us. [/quote]

Uh huh…

‘I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.’ - Luke 12:4-5[/quote]

The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.-

Do you believe a website that fights against help for bullied gay children is following what Jesus would want?

Would Jesus support secretely filming people as they walk in the bathroom?

See I think people like Mass Resistance and Spearhead are going to be in the hottest parts of hell if it actually exists.

[quote]JR249 wrote:

Where in the U.S. has a church been criminally or civilly prosecuted for performing a gay marriage? I’d be interested in valid evidence for this.

[/quote]

Florists and bakers have been prosecuted for refusing to bake cakes and send flowers to gay weddings. That is a breach of the first a amendment.

I have provided mostly secular arguments against gay marriage. I won’t go through them all again because I have already repeated them ad nauseous in this thread.

It should be a duty of the state to protect the institution of marriage. It’s certainly not an exclusively religious issue.

I agree.

I agree with you however as I said I have given numerous secular reasons why it is in the interests of the civil society for the state to protect the institution of marriage.

Ron Paul is a radical libertarian/paleoconservative and doesn’t understand that the state has an obligation to protect the institution of marriage.