I’m not suggesting that every single person must procreate.[/quote]
If this is true, then there is no moral imperative, individual in scale and universal in scope, whereby a man, for example, is obligated to procreate.
In which case, it cannot be said that non-progenitive sex, or any given homosexual, is shirking a moral responsibility and thus living in iniquity.
In which case, you and I agree. I knew we’d find common ground!
[I know that some material came after the quoted portion. Here’s the problem with it: It was a bunch of fuzzy equivocation. “Should be generally accepted…in a position to do so…hopefully…etc.” We’ve done a good job of keeping our feet on concrete up until now, and I don’t want to change that. It is a simple binary proposition–there exists a universal/individual moral responsibility to procreate, or there does not–and you’ve chosen the latter in the quoted excerpt. Any attendant equivocation will not alter the fact that without the universal moral law, you can’t speak of the violation of the universal moral law.]
[As an aside, and using your own words, a really great case could be made that a man who is repulsed by the prospect of the vagina and sexually attracted exclusively to other men is not “in a position to” procreate, at least not the old-fashioned way.]
If this is true, then there is no moral imperative, individual in scale and universal in scope, whereby a man, for example, is obligated to procreate.
In which case, it cannot be said that non-progenitive sex, or any given homosexual, is shirking a moral responsibility and thus living in iniquity.
In which case, you and I agree. I knew we’d find common ground!
[I know that some material came after the quoted portion. Here’s the problem with it: It was a bunch of fuzzy equivocation. “Should be generally accepted…in a position to do so…hopefully…etc.” We’ve done a good job of keeping our feet on concrete up until now, and I don’t want to change that. It is a simple binary proposition–there exists a universal/individual moral responsibility to procreate, or there does not–and you’ve chosen the latter in the quoted excerpt. Any attendant equivocation will not alter the fact that without the universal moral law, you can’t speak of the violation of the universal moral law.]
[/quote]
Perhaps I didn’t express myself well but that was my point all along. However the absence of a universal moral imperative does not diminish the fact that marriage, procreation and child rearing should be the norm wherever possible and encouraged, rewarded and protected by the state. It should also be an accepted norm that traditional marriage has enormous intrinsic value whereas gay unions are harmful to the individual and society as well as unhealthy and unnatural.
[quote]
[As an aside, and using your own words, a really great case could be made that a man who is repulsed by the prospect of the vagina and sexually attracted exclusively to other men is not “in a position to” procreate, at least not the old-fashioned way.][/quote]
I’ve never heard homosexuals being repulsed by female genitalia.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
It would seem that those who hold the opposing views are from the same team as well…pot calling the kettle black?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
SMH, if you mean gays can have biological children by pretending they are heterosexual, i.e., committing a heterosexual sex act, ummm…ok.
FWIW, that inadvertently on your part reinforces one of SM’s points.
Anyway, you fellers continue to have fun here. Looks like you’re having a ball, a politically correct ball.[/quote]
I’m not suggesting that every single person must procreate. I’m suggesting it should be generally accepted that it is the duty of everyone who is in a position to do so to procreate. That doesn’t mean I believe anyone should be forced to do so. It simply means it should be an accepted proposition that, hopefully, people should adhere to if they are able to do so.
[/quote]
So if we don’t need every single person to procreate why be against homosexuality? It’s a small portion of people who aren’t harming anything (unless you make logical leaps) And you are completely obsessed with controlling them? Why? If we don’t need every single person to procreate why is it a big deal to you what such a small percentage of people do?
We aren’t in danger of running out of humans. We aren’t in danger of no one wanting to procreate. You’re talking to someone who does. Someone who has gay people in his life that he loves who is still planning on procreating.
HOW DO THESE GAY PEOPLE CHANGE ME? YOU? They don’t. You have not been able to one time show that they do.
We don’t NEED to force this. It already happens. You said it isn’t the responsibility of everyone to procreate and demonstrably you cannot show that we are in danger of no one making this decision. The fear that somehow gay people are going to lead to the end of the human race requires the suspense of all sorts of rational thinking.
Traditional marriage has the exact same value as it always has. If you disagree then you must have opposed every single change in marriage that has ever existed. Society has consistently been making changes. You seem to be very against these changes, but with no real good logical reason. It’s why the number of people who feel like you has rapidly been dwindling. You don’t have a good leg to stand on other than assertion.
I’m getting ready to partake in a traditional marriage and I feel it has value even though some homosexuals can do the same thing. Why do THEY change how I feel? They don’t. You think they do. You’re lost in the past.
You’re scared. You read stuff that makes you scared. You think stuff that makes you scared. You imagine these huge problems that are easily shot down.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
Perhaps they have friends or family members who are the target of your bigotry.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
I tell you what makes me wonder some stuff. You and the person you are talking to have not only started multiple threads on the subject, but have descriptively talked about gay sex in explicit terms on here which you’d be hard pressed to find from everyone who is defending it.
You both have multiple postings talking about men in a sexually explicit manner. Do you really need me to find the posts you both know you’ve made to remind you? Cause I can think off the top of my head more than one occasion from both of you.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
I tell you what makes me wonder some stuff. You and the person you are talking to have not only started multiple threads on the subject, but have descriptively talked about gay sex in explicit terms on here which you’d be hard pressed to find from everyone who is defending it.
You both have multiple postings talking about men in a sexually explicit manner. Do you really need me to find the posts you both know you’ve made to remind you? Cause I can think off the top of my head more than one occasion from both of you. [/quote]
SM always posts in the AM. The thought of gay men having gay sex is keeping him up at night.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
I tell you what makes me wonder some stuff. You and the person you are talking to have not only started multiple threads on the subject, but have descriptively talked about gay sex in explicit terms on here which you’d be hard pressed to find from everyone who is defending it.
You both have multiple postings talking about men in a sexually explicit manner. Do you really need me to find the posts you both know you’ve made to remind you? Cause I can think off the top of my head more than one occasion from both of you. [/quote]
SM always posts in the AM. The thought of gay men having gay sex is keeping him up at night.[/quote]
Find a post like that from me or any other person in this thread defending homosexuals. You can find more than one from the two god fearing Christian family values promoting men in here. In fact you can find a lot of them, because you’d be shocked at how often two of these pro family guys talk about stuff like that on a bodybuilding forum.
So if we don’t need every single person to procreate why be against homosexuality? It’s a small portion of people who aren’t harming anything (unless you make logical leaps) And you are completely obsessed with controlling them? Why? If we don’t need every single person to procreate why is it a big deal to you what such a small percentage of people do?
[/quote]
We need as many people as possible to procreate. I posted the numbers. It’s basic math. If the trend continues western countries will be depopulated. It’s not paranoia it’s fact based on current fertility rates and trends. I’ve explained why it’s happening. You deny that’s happening in the face of insurmountable evidence.
Western civilisation is already in a rapid decline. And like Rome we are granting citizenship to more fertile people from the third world.
Do you have basic math skills? Women must have on average two children each just to maintain the current population. Germany has a fertility rate of 1.36 children per woman. Get that? Their population is in rapid decline.
Well for one thing the gay rights activists discriminate against heterosexuals. For another they mock and devalue the institution of marriage. They cause public health problems. They contribute to the declining fertility rate. They overturn the norms and mores of civil society. They promote and encourage sexual deviancy, promiscuity and sexual permissiveness.
Evidently not enough.
We don’t need to be in danger of no one procreating. We only need to be in danger of the fertility rate dropping below 2 births per woman.
It certainly does. Which is why I never made such a claim. I merely said it was one of many factors that contribute to declining fertility rates.
The fact that large numbers of neo-liberals disagree with me only makes me more confident in my position.
I’m resigned to the fate of western civilisation. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to abandon my beliefs to make things easier for the neo-liberals. They’re going to have to fight me every step of the way.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
Perhaps they have friends or family members who are the target of your bigotry. [/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
I tell you what makes me wonder some stuff. You and the person you are talking to have not only started multiple threads on the subject, but have descriptively talked about gay sex in explicit terms on here which you’d be hard pressed to find from everyone who is defending it.
You both have multiple postings talking about men in a sexually explicit manner. Do you really need me to find the posts you both know you’ve made to remind you? Cause I can think off the top of my head more than one occasion from both of you. [/quote]
Settle down sailor. I said I wasn’t suggesting anything. I knew the moment you minced into this thread that you were a straight up guy.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
I tell you what makes me wonder some stuff. You and the person you are talking to have not only started multiple threads on the subject, but have descriptively talked about gay sex in explicit terms on here which you’d be hard pressed to find from everyone who is defending it.
You both have multiple postings talking about men in a sexually explicit manner. Do you really need me to find the posts you both know you’ve made to remind you? Cause I can think off the top of my head more than one occasion from both of you. [/quote]
Settle down sailor. I said I wasn’t suggesting anything. I knew the moment you minced into this thread that you were a straight up guy.[/quote]
Yeah. Imagine that. I’m straight despite having a homosexual in my family. I want to procreate despite living in Western civilization like many other heterosexuals even though homosexuality exists.
In fact I’m a walking talking example of your assertions being false.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
I tell you what makes me wonder some stuff. You and the person you are talking to have not only started multiple threads on the subject, but have descriptively talked about gay sex in explicit terms on here which you’d be hard pressed to find from everyone who is defending it.
You both have multiple postings talking about men in a sexually explicit manner. Do you really need me to find the posts you both know you’ve made to remind you? Cause I can think off the top of my head more than one occasion from both of you. [/quote]
SM always posts in the AM. The thought of gay men having gay sex is keeping him up at night.[/quote]
Actually it’s neuropathic pain from multiple fractures, fractured vertebrae and insomnia keeping me awake. Also I have to work most of the day so I don’t get as much time to respond to all the nitwits.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Like I said, the pro homosexual team on this thread sports pretty much the same cast of characters it always does here on PWI. Why is that?
Why the passion?
I’m not trying to level a veiled accusation against any of y’all that you yourselves are homosexuals, I’m just wondering why youse guys seem so ardent in your pleas about this subject?[/quote]
They do seem to be getting very hot under the collar. It’s almost as if they see it as a personal attack on them. Of course I’m not suggesting anything either…still it makes you wonder.[/quote]
I tell you what makes me wonder some stuff. You and the person you are talking to have not only started multiple threads on the subject, but have descriptively talked about gay sex in explicit terms on here which you’d be hard pressed to find from everyone who is defending it.
You both have multiple postings talking about men in a sexually explicit manner. Do you really need me to find the posts you both know you’ve made to remind you? Cause I can think off the top of my head more than one occasion from both of you. [/quote]
Settle down sailor. I said I wasn’t suggesting anything. I knew the moment you minced into this thread that you were a straight up guy.[/quote]
Yeah. Imagine that. I’m straight despite having a homosexual in my family. I want to procreate despite living in Western civilization like many other heterosexuals even though homosexuality exists.
In fact I’m a walking talking example of your assertions being false. [/quote]
I don’t recall asserting that no one procreates or that everyone is gay. Perhaps instead of straw men and red herrings you could explain why you think the fertility rate has declined so much and so rapidly in the west.
I would say most individuals aren’t necessarily supporting the opposing view point. What’s being challenged is the premise and the conclusion drawn.
Trying not to speak for others, but generally, it’s not that we support the opposing viewpoint, it’s just that we can’t come up with reason to hate on homosexuals, therefore, we really don’t care.
And if you don’t want your view challenged, why post at all? Were you hoping that everyone would swoop in and join in on a CJ hating on homosexuals?
If your goal is to change people’s minds, you must then address the issues with the arguments outlined by shm drawn on tangible facts we can hang our hats on.