[quote]borrek wrote:
Jeff R wrote:
borrek, I found the website you took your information from (be careful about using verbatim quotes without citation.)
I would certainly hope you found it, I linked it right above where I started quoting. That is how citation works.
What you’ll find (if you are interested) is that the cell wasn’t confined to 4 guys. It was at least 17 members. What happened is that the 4 guys were captured, then ksm was captured, then waterboarded (he wasn’t talking prior to the waterboarding), then the CIA put the pieces together (including more direct questions to ksm), then more of the cell was captured and the plot was foiled.
Let me repeat, the plot didn’t end with the capture of the four guys.
According to the US government the plot did end with the capture of the four guys.
I will quote again (from the archive of the press briefing I nicely supplied you with: Press Briefing on the West Coast Terrorist Plot by Frances Fragos Townsend, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism)
“The cell leader was arrested in February of 2002, and as we begin – at that point, the other members of the cell believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward.”
This is pretty clear and easy to understand. Maybe waterboarding brought the rest of the cell into detention, but it did not foil the plot. The plot was done before the first drop fell.
It’s important to let me know if you are interested in the actual facts. If you are going to think about the rest of the information, I’ll continue to discuss this with you. If not, we are done.
Thanks in advance,
jeffR
Brother you were done before you started. Kudos on the hubris though. Difficulty was fairly low, but execution was pretty good. Overall I give it an 8.5[/quote]
I wanted to put a little more distance between us: I stand corrected: Your quotes did come from that briefing.
Second, from your link: [quote]And you can see from the timeline the arrests, one by one, it’s the cell leader, it’s KSM, it’s the members of the cell, it’s ultimately Hambali. I mean, the chronology of it makes very clear that these people continued to plot against us not only past 9/11, but Hambali continued through JI and his operatives to plot other attacks. And so it was critical that they all be gotten and put in custody in order to disrupt potential attacks against the United States. So, I mean, there is no question in my mind that this is a disruption. And this is – it’s not about credit, it’s about protecting the American people. And the American people are absolutely safer as a result of these arrests.[/quote]
Again, what you will find is that the LA plot had was led by a guy called hambali. He was the head of the Guruba cell. That cell had 17 members. They were the major cell involved in the “second wave” aka…LA.
The information from ksm WATERBOARDING–led to the capture of hambali.
Don’t believe me? Google “Steven G. Bradbury” and “John A. Rizzo.”
They’ll spell it out for you.
In summary, no waterboarding, no capture of hambali.
I’d have to give you a C-. You’d get a D, but, you did actually quote the White House.
Where you fell woefully short, is your insistence on believing only once source from 2006. What you didn’t take into account (hence the poor grade) is the recently released memo’s. Then you failed to realize that al qaeda isn’t a monolithic entity. There are multiple cells operating with the same purpose. One fails, the other goes forward. It’s their insurance policy.
The actionable intelligence from ksm/waterboarding lead to the disruption of the FAR LARGER Guruba cell.
To achieve higher grades, you must do your own work. Do your own thinking.
Good luck.
JeffR