[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
And by your logic, soldiers are somehow less of a person than a civilian?[/quote]
There’s something about blindly following orders from the hierarchy that I find utterly repulsive. Not enough to wish soldiers death though.
[quote]lixy wrote:
What’s certain, is that it would have killed a higher proportion of people who signed up to kill and be killed than the civilian nightwares caused by nukes.[/quote]
Soldiers don’t sign up to be killed. They sign up to win wars.
“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.”
I really could care less, you think they would not have used this weapon if they had the chance? Of course they would. We’re Gaijin, sp, or whatever. And we blew the crap out of them. They had the chance to surrender and did not do it, so screw em.
[quote]hatesmiles wrote:
Atomic bombing hundreds of people is “right”? Come on even if it was a nececity it does not make killing innocent people right thing to do.[/quote]
It’s war , people get killed and things get broke. They bombed Pearl Harbor.
[quote]lixy wrote:
There’s something about blindly following orders from the hierarchy that I find utterly repulsive.[/quote]
Supremely ironic coming from a muslim.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
lixy wrote:
There’s something about blindly following orders from the hierarchy that I find utterly repulsive.
Supremely ironic coming from a muslim.[/quote]
How so? What sort of hierarchy binds a Muslim?
[quote]hatesmiles wrote:
Atomic bombing hundreds of people is “right”? Come on even if it was a nececity it does not make killing innocent people right thing to do.[/quote]
The huminitarian slant went by the wayside as the war progressed. The 2/13/45 bombing of Dresden is a perfect point. While they did have some war-machine industry there, it hardly justified leveling a whole city. The idea of the allies was to totally break the will of the every-day people, to a point, they had no qualms of taking out a whole neighborhood in collateral damage to get the intended military related target.
A land-invasion of Japan was on the drawing board, the tenacity of the Japanese and their digging in and hunkering down skills were what led up to the atomic bomb being used. The US troop casualty prediction was way too high and the “reach out and touch someone” plan was implemented.
BG
[quote]lixy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
lixy wrote:
What’s certain, is that it would have killed a higher proportion of people who signed up to kill and be killed than the civilian nightwares caused by nukes.
Certain my balls. There would have been a plethora of civilian deaths if we’d had to take that mainland.
I didn’t mean that civilians wouldn’t have died. Just that the ratio civilian/military would have been lower. [/quote]
Honestly lixy, I’m not sure that’s the case either. Look at the battle of Okinawa:
The battle has one of the highest number of casualties of any World War Two engagement: the Japanese lost over 100,000 troops, and the Allies (mostly United States) suffered more than 50,000 casualties, with over 12,000 killed in action. Hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed, wounded or attempted suicide. Approximately one-fourth of the civilian population died due to the invasion. from wiki
You can argue that maybe the ratio would have been lower, but it’d be hard to prove. And it total numbers, I’m convinced more civilians would have died.
[quote]lixy wrote:
There’s something about blindly following orders from the hierarchy that I find utterly repulsive.[/quote]
You must really love Japanese culture then, huh? Now too, but especially then.
It was a necessary decision that undoubtably saved thousands of Americans, perhaps as many or more Japanese. The poll’s results are nevertheless expected. -Some- people who never had a stake in the war or were living sometime during the era always like to think that things could have been done differently.
[quote]lixy wrote:
HG Thrower wrote:
And by your logic, soldiers are somehow less of a person than a civilian?
There’s something about blindly following orders from the hierarchy that I find utterly repulsive. Not enough to wish soldiers death though.[/quote]
There are organizations that must be run in this manner, and there are times when there is no time for question. A military with a weaker leadership isn’t safe for its personnel or its country.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Right choice that ultimately saved many lives.[/quote]
This. How so many people of my generation miss this astounds me.
One American life saved >>>> 100, 000 enemy lives or enemy citizens. So if I can save one soldier and it costs me 100000 of the other guys, I really don’t care.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
One American life saved >>>> 100, 000 enemy lives or enemy citizens. So if I can save one soldier and it costs me 100000 of the other guys, I really don’t care.[/quote]
What is wrong with you?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
tom63 wrote:
One American life saved >>>> 100, 000 enemy lives or enemy citizens. So if I can save one soldier and it costs me 100000 of the other guys, I really don’t care.
What is wrong with you?[/quote]
Nothing, my soldiers and citizens are more valuable to me than the enemy. Saving one soldier’s life to me is more valuable than sparing the enemy. What is so hard to understand?
My son is interested in the military. If I could drop a bomb that would save just his life and kill 100,000 people I would. I would not make a decision that would kill a US serviceman while sparing enemy lives.
It’s not a hard concept to grasp. the lives of my countrymen are more valuable to me than our enemy. Again, my kid dead or 100000 of the enemy dead, i chose on the saide of my kid or countrymen.
[quote]lixy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
lixy wrote:
There’s something about blindly following orders from the hierarchy that I find utterly repulsive.
Supremely ironic coming from a muslim.
How so? What sort of hierarchy binds a Muslim?[/quote]
The Caliph? Imams? Ulema? The 4 Schools?
We need to drag that other Muslim guy back in here who pwn3d you last time, lixy. Remember him telling you how abysmal your understanding of jurisprudence was?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
This. How so many people of my generation miss this astounds me.[/quote]
I second your lament, even as I am not entirely sure what your generation is (I assume current young people).
There is a disappointing disconnect in appreciating the “terrible arithmetic” of war among younger folk.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
One American life saved >>>> 100, 000 enemy lives or enemy citizens. So if I can save one soldier and it costs me 100000 of the other guys, I really don’t care.[/quote]
One American soldier > 100,000 enemy SOLDIERS, sure. It is never as black and white as you say though. And you say, “enemy citizens”. What makes these citizens “enemies”? It is that kind of attitude which explains why so much of the world dislikes America, and it is that attitude in Americans that just pisses me off.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
What makes these citizens “enemies”? It is that kind of attitude which explains why so much of the world dislikes America, and it is that attitude in Americans that just pisses me off.[/quote]
There is a large part of the world that really likes and appreciates America and the Americian attitude.
The ‘‘citizens’’ got exactely what they deserved for supporting the war effort of the japanese, in fact America was extremley forgiving to the Japanese. Perhaps ask some Chinese what their view of how Japan was treated after the war, interesting to hear their view, suffice to say people in Nanking still think the Americans are wonderfull.
Speaking to my relatives who served in the Pacific, they wanted to put the entire japanese race to death, as i have said before America has been and is still is a beacon in a sea of darkness.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
tom63 wrote:
One American life saved >>>> 100, 000 enemy lives or enemy citizens. So if I can save one soldier and it costs me 100000 of the other guys, I really don’t care.
One American soldier > 100,000 enemy SOLDIERS, sure. It is never as black and white as you say though. And you say, “enemy citizens”. What makes these citizens “enemies”? It is that kind of attitude which explains why so much of the world dislikes America, and it is that attitude in Americans that just pisses me off.[/quote]
You’re a weenie. Again, I would chose a course of action that guaranteed 100% safety for USA soldiers and citizens, no matter what the cost of enemy lives. They could always give up.
Yep funny thing that Bataan death march, or the Rape of Nanking that the Japanese refuse to acknowledge. They were the enemy, they did not surrender when they had the chance. and we blew them up. what’s the problem here.
Some people are just fairies. Willing to apologize for what the US does at every turn, but refusing to acknowledge things like war atrocities from our enemies.