Hillary: Let's Talk!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
thunder:

Who do you see as the strongest GOP candidate?

Honestly, I think the very best candidate for the GOP nomination is not even a candidate - Fred Dalton Thompson.

He knows policy, there isn’t a Democrat on the face of the earth that could outdo him in a debate, and he has the right balance of national figure/Washington outsider. Plus he is big, has a commanding personal presence (gravitas), and has a bipartisan history of attacking corruption in government.

As for the names already in tentatively in the ring, I think McCain probably stands the best chance. Rudy would be interesting, especially in a race against Hillary (with all those NY electoral votes up for grabs) - I also think that Rudy’s social liberalism would be less of an issue because of his national security profile, law and order attitude, and general prudence on fiscal matters. [/quote]

Love to see Thompson run.

22

Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico has declared his candidacy. The Democrats could do a lot worse than Richardson. A decent fiscal track record, from a Western state (could appeal to the non-coastal flyover states), and is dedicated to energty policy.

And he doesn’t carry Hillary’s baggage, Obama’s shallowness, or John Edwards’ attachment to Kerry and his failure of a campaign.

23

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Countries in decline tend to run up huge debts and the people try to preserve their standard of living through legislation.

It therefore follows that a politician who promises to solve problems with LESS freedom, with more regulations and controls, will win the support of the sheeple.

This pattern (minus the voting for some) has recurred throughout history: Britain, Holland, Spain, China, Ancient Rome.

That’s a big reason the Dems won in '06 and will win in '08. The winner will be Hillary Clinton.[/quote]

You do realize Bush has limited our freedoms more than any president since Lincoln?

It’s about a return to non-idealism. We need a president who understands reality. Who approves of competence over loyalty.

I don’t know if Hilary is that candidate, but I do hope so.

24

I think that DUBYA has made it EXTREMELY difficult for the Republicans to win the White House (which to me is more “symbolic” a win than winning control of Congress).

Will the GOP candidates attempt to distance themselves from him over the next 18 months?

Boy…if they do, the DEMS are going to have a field day. But do they have much of a choice?

Mufasa

25

Beowolf:

Putting Dubya and Abraham Lincoln in the same sentence just gave me a little seizure…

Whew…I’m okay now…

Mufasa

26

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Beowolf:

Putting Dubya and Abraham Lincoln in the same sentence just gave me a little seizure…

Whew…I’m okay now…

Mufasa[/quote]

Lincoln was one of the most hated presidents ever, until he was assassinated. He’d get 2 or 3 deaths threats/day, was called ‘ni##er’ and ‘ni##er-lover’ by the adoring masses, and was shredded by the papers (before Stanton shut them down). Many thought he wanted to be a dictator.

If this was 1864, most people on this board would be ranting about him more than GWB now, I’d guess.

27

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico has declared his candidacy. The Democrats could do a lot worse than Richardson. A decent fiscal track record, from a Western state (could appeal to the non-coastal flyover states), and is dedicated to energty policy.

And he doesn’t carry Hillary’s baggage, Obama’s shallowness, or John Edwards’ attachment to Kerry and his failure of a campaign.[/quote]

Speaking of shallowness, I can’t help thinking of John Edwards spending an afternoon in New Orleans helping them out. It was like Sean Penn in a row boat going from house to house after the storm. I would have been more impressed with both of them if they would have hired a few hundred guys to help them and actually do something other than have their picture taken with a shovel or an oar in their hand. I’m sure both could have afforded it.

And if they did and I missed it or they didn’t let anyone know, I apologize in advance.

28

Headhunter:

You made me think about something that I was on my mind as I first viewed President Nixon’s Funeral then President Ford’s…

How we hear NOTHING good about our President’s until they die. I kept saying to myself “How come I didn’t know this stuff when they were ALIVE?”

Even now, Clinton and his legacy is being reassessed.

Maybe what DUBYA has done or not done will have to wait the passage of time?

I don’t know…

Mufasa

29

I think Edwards will be one of the early exits from the race.

Mufasa

30

Mufasa,

Excellent thread so far.

I am of the opinion that hillary cannot and will not win the Presidency.

Name a single Southern state that would vote for her? Realistically, you can’t win without that block.

As Thunder pointed out, you want to have near 100% GOP participation in any election, run hillary.

I’m serious. She is a Republican campaign manager’s wet dream. She has a quote that says, “We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”

Run that next to mao, stalin, castro, and lenin saying the same things.

Then run her “baking cookies” commentary and you lose an enormous amount of the “soccer mom” votes.

Then you could run the fact that the clinton’s charged the Secret Service rent. This rent happened to be exactly their mortgage payment per month on their New York home!!!

Furniture, her health care reform failure, the list goes on and on and on…

On a side note, Mufasa, do not for one second believe that there is a Truman-like rewriting of billy boy’s legacy within any center to right of center persons.

We think he is just as slimy as ever.

As for my preference, I am firmly in the Rudolph Giuliani camp.

Have you heard the man off the cuff? Have you heard him formally interviewed?

He has what Bush lacks: stage presence. He has a physical presence that is hard to ignore.

Bush is right on his major decisions, wrong on his presentation.

While the presentation doesn’t matter as much to me as content, there is a significant portion of the electorate that cares about appearance.

Imagine the effect of Giuliani looking into the camera and speaking directly to al qaeda!!!

With his universally acclaimed clean up of New York, imagine him talking about crime on a national level.

Finally, the democrats cannot reasonably bring up any personal foibles after bill clinton. They would be instantly roasted as the ultimate hypocrites.

In summary, I hope rodham is the nominee!!! I pray she is running against Giuliani.

JeffR

31

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Beowolf:

Putting Dubya and Abraham Lincoln in the same sentence just gave me a little seizure…

Whew…I’m okay now…

Mufasa[/quote]

I was just comparing them in the way they’ve limited freedom :). Lincoln actually had decent reasoning, even though I still believe he was wrong to limit freedom. It’s like a driver who breaks the speed limit (constitution) to catch a criminal. Lincoln was a responsible, talented driver, who returned the car to it’s normal speed right after catching the bad guy. Bush is a drunk driver who hit three kids and and old man trying to catch another car, and has no intention of slowing down.

Too anyone who watches the Daily Show:
Lincolns just Dubya’s first bid for legacy. He’ll end up settling for something around Harding ^_~.

32

I really think that Rudy will be the GOP candidate to deal with. Excellent management skills, fiscally conservative, detail oriented, and an extremely articulate individual.

I mean, damn, he’s America’s mayor. His leadership after 9/11 was outstanding. Period. If Nagan would have had half his ability as a mayor, things would have been very different in NO I’m sure.

Giuliani in '08

33

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I really think that Rudy will be the GOP candidate to deal with. Excellent management skills, fiscally conservative, detail oriented, and an extremely articulate individual.

I mean, damn, he’s America’s mayor. His leadership after 9/11 was outstanding. Period. If Nagan would have had half his ability as a mayor, things would have been very different in NO I’m sure.

Giuliani in '08[/quote]

I’m sure Rudy would have had the integrity to stay in NYC if Katrina would of hit there and not left for Albany.

34

GREAT points, guys!

(This is how I remember the “Political” Forum!)

Guiliani…I’m going to have to pay much closer attention to him and learn a little more as the year progresses. He does sound formidable.

I’m still a naive person to the Political Process, guys. I still feel that you get on a “slippery slope” when you don’t Vote “for” someone but “against” another.

I guess that the reality these days is that it’s a rare Politician who can really galvanize the masses.

Mufasa

35

A Giuliani nomination would both require and mark the end of the Rovian method electioneering. Have conditions changed sufficiently that numbers on the religious right that will be turned off with his nomination no longer outweigh those gained from the middle? Are those votes lost already, making the nomination itself reasonable?

I will say though that if the Republicans decide to turn 180 this time and put up a fiscally conservative and socially moderate canditate like Giuliani, then they just might win back my vote.

36

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Headhunter:

You made me think about something that I was on my mind as I first viewed President Nixon’s Funeral then President Ford’s…

How we hear NOTHING good about our President’s until they die. I kept saying to myself “How come I didn’t know this stuff when they were ALIVE?”

Even now, Clinton and his legacy is being reassessed.

Maybe what DUBYA has done or not done will have to wait the passage of time?

I don’t know…

Mufasa

[/quote]

The tragedy of the Bush presidency is the lost opportunity. We Republicans always hoped for a Republican Congress and Presidency; pass the Contract, get terms limits, a balanced budget, a permanent lock on the bureaucracy. But, like so many hegemons before us, entrenched interests sold out their country’s future to retain their power today. The Dems and Republicans are all the same — power-mad maniacs.

Just look at the sheer demagoguery around Social Security: a program GUARANTEED to bankrupt us, yet when solutions are proposed: “You want old people to eat catfood! They want to take away your check!!” Pure evil.

Guess we have to go through another Dark Ages before humanity gets a ‘third’ chance.

37

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Okay; let’s get it started!

Hillary is now officially in, so I’ll start the discussion:

  1. I think that she will EASILY win the Democratic Nomination.

  2. I think that she will be a distinct target for some Wacko (Political and/or Religious)

[/quote]
I don’t think she will win it easily. She is a media darling but I think she is polarizing and will further divide the democrats.

She’s definately a target. That’s politics. She will be protected by the news media from many attacks though. What ever happens she will likely come out smelling like a rose.

[quote]
Questions:

  1. How much of the “I am very curious about the possibilities” vote will she get? (Like the 12% that Perot got in his serious run).

First woman (It can be done; don’t forget Golda)

First, First Lady

First, First Gentleman AND Ex-President

I think the “possibilities” vote could be HIGH!

  1. What Republican has the best chance of beating her? Any? All?

Let’s discuss…

Mufasa[/quote]

I think the curiousity vote will be low.
IMO, if she is nominated she will lose. She is less likable than Kerry, and thats pretty bad. Kerry couldn’t beat Bush in '04.

I thought a roll of toilet paper could have beat Bush. Kerry came off as such a cock sucker that he still lost. I think I could’ve beat Bush. He was unpopular then, but Kerry just seeme worse.

I see the same thing for Hillary. Extreme left and everybody knows it. She too left for a lot of lefties. Outsie the very sympathetic northeast she will have a hard time. I sure as fuck ain’t gonna vote for her.

If somebody else wins the nomination I believe our next president will be a democrat. If she is the nominated democratic candidate, then the next president will be republican. I even believe Bush could beat her if he could run for a 3rd term.

38

[quote]olderguy wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
I really think that Rudy will be the GOP candidate to deal with. Excellent management skills, fiscally conservative, detail oriented, and an extremely articulate individual.

I mean, damn, he’s America’s mayor. His leadership after 9/11 was outstanding. Period. If Nagan would have had half his ability as a mayor, things would have been very different in NO I’m sure.

Giuliani in '08

I’m sure Rudy would have had the integrity to stay in NYC if Katrina would of hit there and not left for Albany.[/quote]

Very true I think

39

[quote]etaco wrote:
A Giuliani nomination would both require and mark the end of the Rovian method electioneering. Have conditions changed sufficiently that numbers on the religious right that will be turned off with his nomination no longer outweigh those gained from the middle? Are those votes lost already, making the nomination itself reasonable?

I will say though that if the Republicans decide to turn 180 this time and put up a fiscally conservative and socially moderate canditate like Giuliani, then they just might win back my vote.[/quote]

Rudy is the EXACT type of Republican I would be happy to vote for. I truly hope he makes a serious run for the white house in '08.

40

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
etaco wrote:
A Giuliani nomination would both require and mark the end of the Rovian method electioneering. Have conditions changed sufficiently that numbers on the religious right that will be turned off with his nomination no longer outweigh those gained from the middle? Are those votes lost already, making the nomination itself reasonable?

I will say though that if the Republicans decide to turn 180 this time and put up a fiscally conservative and socially moderate canditate like Giuliani, then they just might win back my vote.

Rudy is the EXACT type of Republican I would be happy to vote for. I truly hope he makes a serious run for the white house in '08.
[/quote]

Rudy’s politics might not be his only problem. Reading the NY papers everyday tells me his business dealings might come in to play. Not that he is doing anything wrong, but who he is doing business with could be his problem. I assume you are aware he lost/had stolen, his briefcase with his campaign stategy in it. Most of the concerns within were about his business dealings. Bernie Kerick won’t help. But if he takes off, none of that will matter. It should be interesting.