High Taxes on Junk Food

Off Topic
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Whether or not corn can be used for energy is irrelevant to the fact that high-fructose CS is not good for health, while corn by itself is not bad. Hence these issues have to be uncoupled. Taxing corn syrop seems like a good way to do so.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
tremelo24 wrote:
…
You make excellent points… but I would much rather see corn production increased in this country, and corn consumption by humans (eating it) decreased by at least 50%.

How is this possible (what the fvck am I talking 'bout)? We need more flex fuel vehicles that ‘run on corn’ so we can tell the Mid East to fuck off once and for all. Bush could easily fix his legacy if he took this initiative seriously…

Corn is a lousy energy source. This is another example of the strong corn lobby.

[/quote]

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[quote]zarathus wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I do not think the answer is taxing unhealthy foods or subsidizing unhealthy ones. That screams fascist to me. I think a better solution is a better breakdown on health and life insurance. Where some measures of fitness are instituted and also lack of risk factors such as good blood pressure and cholesterol.

I might be inclined to agree with you, but why would that (insurance instead of up-front cost sin taxes) be less fascist?

Also, what about genetic factors in cholesterol, even if such predeposed people aren’t neccesarily at a risk of heart disease? Do you want to sin tax people for things that they don’t have a level of complete control over and may or may not lead to heart disease? An analagous situtation would be to tax me more since I’m taller, as I’m “predisposed” to advancement and high-income (for the record, I’m 6’2, and a poor graduate student). [/quote]

I think it’s less coercive to give people preferred rates for health and life insurance that is at least roughly representative of their health and really a better estimation of likely insurance payouts. Less coercive than placing a artifical tax on foods that aren’t healthy. The former affords people more choices. If they are induced enough by cheaper rates to adopt healthier behaviors, that’s great.

Cholesterol and blood pressure are GREATLY controlled by diet and exercise. Those who train for size, strength, and performance are generally doing good things for their health, but they are not necessarily eating or training in a way to promote optimal health. There are certainly problems with this analysis. It’s far from crystal clear to what extent elevated blood pressure and cholesterol are a true risk to people who are training and eating right. But they are at least indicators.

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[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
I still can’t figure out where it’s the government’s job to give me health care in the first place. Someone want to fill me in? I certainly agree that they shouldn’t be subsidizing farmers but that’s really just because it’s again none of their damn business what farmers do with their excess, plus it’s bad for the economy. Henry Hazlitt makes a fantastic case for this specifically in a few of his economics books. Paternalistic government makes me sick and it’s so heavily ingrained in American life that they don’t even see it.

Mike[/quote]

I think that you should stop paying into health insurance. God forbid that you get some disease entirely outside of your control that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat, you should definitely pay for it all yourself!

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[quote]tremelo24 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Corn is a lousy energy source. This is another example of the strong corn lobby.

Believe it or not, I agree with you. Here is my logic though…

Hydrogen powered vehicles are 10 years away at a minimum. In the meantime, we can begin extracting the Middle East’s fist out of our collective asses if we at least make the attempt to find an alternative.

If we can cut our reliance on them, funding for terrorism would drop dramatically. In the meantime, the increase in corn demand (I am viewing this through rose colored lenses admittedly) would help cut down on the government subsidies. I’m sorry, but I am all for American dollars staying in this country. We are hemorrhaging enough as it is.[/quote]

Even Bush said that we need to be focusing on developing alternative fuel sources. Though it may just be lip service with him.

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[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
You pro tax guys don’t get it.

All we have to do is stop subsidizing corn and the like.

This will make corn more scarce and expensive.

Cows will eat less corn and more grass leading to healthier beef.

Less corn syrup will be forced into every food product.

The solution is simple. Implementation would be difficult. The corn lobby is rich and powerful.

[/quote]

Not the corn lobby per se, but the food manufacturers industries along with the HUD and USDA. The USDA and HUD want cheap food for poor people. The food manufacturers (If you can call something that has to be manufactured “food”) want cheap raw material to make corn flakes and twinkies and what not. This is why they support subsidizing ag commodities. The actual agricultural producer doesn’t have a powerful voice himself, except as a pitiful appeal to sentiment.

I agree that eliminating subsidies would be the way to go. Then producers would have to find alternative crops, markets and methods or go broke. That’s capitalism.

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I think hydrogen powered vehicles are a load of steaming shit invented by the petrochem industry to make more money and keep a stranglehold on infrastructure. Here’s why.

Using biofuels, particularly corn doesn’t require a massive change in existing infrastructure, same fuel tanks, trucks, pumps, engines, etc. So the only ones who stand to gain are those who produce or market raw materials and those who invest in production technologies. Not the oil companys’ ball game. If they push hydrogen technology then they have new engines, systems and what not for the auto companies to produce (heavily invested in and supportive of the petrochem companies) as well as brand new infrastructure all over the country, because hydrogen isn’t compatible with existing gas station equipment.

Honestly, the best solution is to plan communities to eliminate sprawl and encourage foot traffic and bicycling. Riding a donkey, horse, mule or oxen is a better choice too, and would be preferable, in my opinion.

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[quote]rg73 wrote:
Fat is good for the economy. I’m not sure why the government would want to step in and stop their gravy train.

Fat people are a win-win-win. They buy the junk food, which is made with the subsidized corn syrup. So the farmers are happy, the junk food peddlers are happy. The consumer is happy. Then the consumer gets fat. This creates a market for diet books, for gyms, personal trainers, specialized diets, supplements, plastic surgery, etc.

Fat folks keep a lot of other people employed. Then you have the fat folks that don’t get off their ass. Then they need serious medical intervention. Well that makes the big pharma companies happy. It keeps the doctors and nurses busy. Keeps the insurance companies pushing paper. Add in new trends like car makers having to make new models for fat asses, and you add yet another layer of consumption into the game.

Fat keeps the economy rolling. We don’t manufacture shit anymore. So we make fat people. And that allows all these new jobs to exist. If we had a bunch of healthy people, eating a lot less and better food, and not needing to buy into fad diets, pilates and whatever other junk we get today, well, there would be a lot of unemployed people in this country.

So sure, we can get rid of fat people. But we’d best start actually making something, or doing something as a country that does not revolve around the servicing of the obese.

[/quote]
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[quote]tremelo24 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Corn is a lousy energy source. This is another example of the strong corn lobby.

Believe it or not, I agree with you. Here is my logic though…

Hydrogen powered vehicles are 10 years away at a minimum. In the meantime, we can begin extracting the Middle East’s fist out of our collective asses if we at least make the attempt to find an alternative.

If we can cut our reliance on them, funding for terrorism would drop dramatically. In the meantime, the increase in corn demand (I am viewing this through rose colored lenses admittedly) would help cut down on the government subsidies. I’m sorry, but I am all for American dollars staying in this country. We are hemorrhaging enough as it is.[/quote]

I would agree if I thought it would work. As it is I just think it is a big corporate give away. I am not a big believer in hydrogen either.

American vehicles are grossly inefficient. Countless people commute in SUVs that get well under 20 MPG.

Too many people drive and almost no one walks or rides bikes. Too bad we don’t have more bike paths etc to get around. Every comunty shhould have these but they don’t.

A good way to keep the fat off of people is to get them walking and riding bikes around town running errands.

Doesn’t waste gas either.

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Look how happy and jolly they look now!

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I know I wouldn’t have a problem w/the government giving healthier foods more support and junkier foods less support. But if this type of tax were introducted, I’d sure hope that the tax revenues would go to relevant spending, like health care research and the provision of health services.

At the end of the day, I think it’s hard to deny that the obesity epidemic is a very real problem, with very real costs assoicated with it… and it’s time for government to step up and address this problem, in my opinion.

71

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

I think that you should stop paying into health insurance. God forbid that you get some disease entirely outside of your control that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat, you should definitely pay for it all yourself!
[/quote]

Hell, if I could in fact stop paying into Medicare, Medicade, ect, I might in fact have enough money to pay for health insurance and squirrel away more for a retirement. I have nothing against health insurance. I just don’t see where it’s the government’s job. I mean hell, gov’t is so deeply ingrained in our lives that most people don’t see it and take it for granted.

Example: Daylight savings time. So apparently it’s their job to regulate time as well. Marriage licenses. It seems who I marry is between she, I and God (or as your flavor compels you for my more eccentric friends). Marriage licenses were first issued because the gov’t felt the need to approve of INTERRACIAL marriages. How F’ed up is that?

But now we just get our little paper from Uncle Sam every time someone gets married because it’s the easy thing to do. It appears to me that most people on here pride themselves for not being lazy. But I guess that only applies for working out eh?

Mike

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[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
…

Example: Daylight savings time. So apparently it’s their job to regulate time as well. …[/quote]

I think everyone should be able to set the time anyway they want. Hell we might as well be able to change the calendar too.

I have decided it is Friday 5 PM for me.