I am not saying that clomid didn’t boost your T, it may have to a certain degree. I would call falling asleep in the gym not a definite sign of low T, I have never had that problem neither does anyone else I know of with low T. Not to say it’s not but you cannot quantify success on something like that as symptoms differ from individual to individual. I was only ever focussed and a little energetic in the gym.
Many are mixed hypo. Varying degrees of dysfunction in both pituitary and testes.
Reason for all the labs together is that they are interlinked and can fluctuate. Are you still on clomid? Be on it for this blood test also if you haven’t got TT again. Concentrations of shbg,e2 are dependent upon TT at a particular time as well.
interesting. I will call and see if they can add TT. When i mean falling asleep, i dont mean like i was mentalling tired, i mean like i felt a physical drain so much from picking up weights that i would just lay there. I dont know if you’ve ever had the feeling, but it would feel like my body was just worn out… but after doing not much work. I dont know. When my levels ran 400 something, I thought the two were connected. Certainly a, at the time, 25 year old should not have that low T.
I have that problem anywhere other than gym. Maybe had more of that problem after being diagnosed,suggesting more of a mental shift to when I did not think I could have T problems.
Anyway even without TT, It should be useful to an extent and we’ll know if it’s the problem I think it is.
Hopefully you’ll find someone who’ll help you fix whatever the problem is. At our age, these problems should be far away. I also don’t understand how the “cut offs” work. How can someone else determine normals for your body in terms of hormones, it’s purely individual. Some people function very well with lower T. I got my brothers tested just to see, his was 450 or something, he’s active beyond I could ever be and has good libido and gains muscle easily.
I am still on clomid. I dont plant to get off it unless i determine its making things worse. All treatment i seek is likely to be self treatment, as I have never found a doctor to want to help out a guy that looks physically fit and has medium range T
I actually called to have them add TT. Hopefully, they will.
I dont understand the doctors either. I just know it costs a lot of money and time to find someone willing to play ball, and i move around lot, so i get screwed by that too. If i could fix my issue wtih Anastrozole, i would be the happiest person. I can order clomid/anastrolzone for cheap enough online… injections and so forth would be incredibly costly.
Let’s wait for the blood work then and take it from there. I’m sure anastrozole is needed in any case. 50mg clomid will make e2 soar. If shbg is high as suspected, problems are harder to take care of.
Do not mind but I think you needed to do a lot more reading and understanding before self medicating. I have attained so much knowledge despite finding a good doc that I can now know what’s going on. Being a passive patient is bad enough, self medication and not knowing what it’s going to do is more risky. This is because the explaination I gave you above as to how clomid works and fails for most people. You should have know whether you’re primary or secondary at least before being on any drug.
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the doctor decided that clomind would be the test to see if i was primary or secondary. When the clomid increased the T, they determined that i was secondary ? (i forget which is which). Remember, i am not really self medicating, i am only continuing treatment by my doctor (urologist) in nashville. now that I am in ohio and they will not prescribe the same thing, I had to order it myself. During my lapse, i did feel worse than now.
My biggest concern, again, is the sex issue, which has been persistent since i was 23. I think its lack of sex drive. A girl can turn me on, but i quickly lose it, probably cause i do not feel the need for sex.
the lab results finally came back (they were in no hurry)
E2 came in at 369.4 on a scale of 60-190pg/ml
FSH came in normal at 6.8 on a scale of 1.6-8.0 miu/ml
SHBG 62 on a sale of 10-50 nmol/l
LH 14.1 on a scale of 1.5-9.3
What i gather from this is i need Armidex, and everything should be good??
They also ran a test for ACTH, PLasma… which i do not know if it is related, but it came out wayyyy high at 514 on a scale of 6-50pg/ml
How much clomid are you on? LH is too high driving large T—>E inside the testes, AI can’t control it there. Drop clomid dose by half and add 1mg anastrozole a week in EOD doses. This will help alot. See the HPTA restart thread, it will help you. Need to taper of clomid to see if system can stand on it’s own.
My suspicion about SHBG was correct. Control E2 and drop clomid dose to half, blood work and symptoms after 4-6 weeks should be better representation.
I use 50mg every other day of clomid.
Without clomid, and this has been tested twice, my T levels drop in half and im tired as piss.
I am trying to get a prescription for anastrozole right now, if i cant, i will have to wait for an order to come in
Are you sure on lowering the dose of clomid? if my T level is right where i want it, can I not just add in the anastrolzole to control the E2?
Endo refused treatment. Agreed that e2 was high, said clomid is “old school” and it causes more problems than good. Said I should do trt, but refused to treat with that method either.
I’ve read too much on trt showing that once off trt, it’s very hard for you to ever produce on your own. If I can produce on my own, I don’t want to lose that ability. Not to mention how hard it is to get doctors to do anything, I move around a lot. If I ever had a lapse, it would be a mess. Clomid/arimidex is about $200/year online. I think this is a safer to stay on this path than the trt path. Correct?
The problem with TRT now is the one which everyone “in range” faces, the doctors have to run it by the medical board and they are clueless, everything in range is not supposed to be treated according to them. My personal opinion of clomid is poor, but that does not mean that nobody can benefit from it. It’s used as a vital part of PCT for bodybuilders and works great. If one can make it work,then awesome, nothing better than having T produced internally but many don’t feel well on clomid and when it comes to not being able to get a restart, then i believe a proper TRT protocol is safer, more beneficial for long term rather than an external drug.
For your previous question, more does not mean better, LH is high and driving too much E2 in the testes,this will not be controllable by anastrozole. Reducing the dose will put it at levels we can hope that the body can retain and E2 can be controlled better. Read the HPTA restart thread as pointed before. You’ll have to see if it works, if not TRT is my recommendation rather than clomid forever.
Listen to what @KSman has to say, much of it you will find in the thread pointed to you. I also do not understand the practices we see from doctors in the States. They don’t even acknowledge blood work done at another doctors, like that can be forged or something stupid. Don’t see why doctors can’t work with others or atleast value the diagnoses of a fellow specialist. In my country, labs are independent and results are accepted by every doc and follow ups can be done by another doctor if i have to move to another city.
You E2 is way too high. An AI is the way to go.
So the doc put you on clomid, but doesn’t know about controlling e2? Strange.
TRT can be beneficial and dosing can be very well controlled, but there are downsides also. You E2 would likely be high on TRT also.
Interesting. I did read he thread you were referring to. Very informative. I will do as you say and dose down on the clomid. My arimidex will be here in 5-15 days
The original Doctor that put me on clomid is in a different state. Since then, I’ve gotten it from overseas. This doctor was simply trying to collect a paycheck. Refused treatment entirely, saying I’m such an ‘abnormal’ case. To me, it all looks pretty simple after listening to what you guys had to say. I’m on clomid, probably too much, it’s increased e2, I simply need to block that. I don’t know what’s so abnormal. it seems like LH should be higher on clomid. I don’t know, doctors suck
Personally, I would probably rather stick to clomid than go the trt route. My T was 502 when tested before treatment. Not anything special, but I was at least producing it. I know if I go off clomid for a week, or even a month, that I won’t crash or have major issues
I received my arimidex today. I also got nolvadex in case, as i hear this is an alternative to clomid. I took .5MG today since I do not have the kit to measure it out right now. On the way home, I will get a dropper and all that and cut to .15mg/day. I will get labs done in a week from today to see where things are at. I have been lowering the dose of clomid for a week or so now.
I have so far taken 2mg of arimidex since I got it. I dont feel bad, im not tired or anything like that, but I have absolutely no sex drive. nothing happens even with Cialis. I highly doubt i crashed my estradiol. I am wondering if I am not taking enough. I imagine that taking .15mg eod would work for maintenance, but with an e2 level over 350, do I need more right now to knock that down?>>
You may also want to lower your clomid dosage a smidge. Your numbers are very high (LH and TT).
KSMan indicates (I don’t understand exactly how this happens) that if you drive TT very high, aromatization (T → E2) occurs in the testicles and is unable to be prevented by an AI.
I have lowered dosage on clomid to 25mg EOD… I’ve never had this bad of an issue. I just took 1mg of arimidex for the hell of it. I will get labs on wednesday and see where things stand. i’ve dosed down to 25 eod of the clomid for 3 weeks or so?
Would switching from clomid to nolvedex be a good idea ? I think that was supposed to be the advantage of it, if i recall
E2 is unlikely to be affected by a change from clomid to nolva. The pathway is T → E2 no matter what stimulates the T.
I’d take a stable regimen for at least 2-3 weeks before I went for bloodwork. 4 weeks is ideal. Taking 1mg arimidex then testing 2 days later isn’t necessarily what I would do.