[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Tuna help me out man :)[/quote]
I’ll try 
How can I help?
I am having a hard time… I don’t know if I should just get off trt… I don’t feel we have found why My FT runs low all the time. KS man said “The association of fatty liver disease with metabolic disorder and insulin resistance points to your hormone problems as a cause of the problem. So look to that issue for treatment”.
I asked two different people what it meant and they both took it differently lol. I was very symptomatic but I’m finding a lot of symptoms with low T are the same as thyroid or adrenal symptoms. My total T was always between 5 and 700… free T always low… lh always between 2-4… I am scared of TRT as i don’t what is correct and i don’t know what to think…I have a very well known TRT doc who see’s 2500 people a month and has two offices telling me quote "Your E2 (estradiol) is perfectly normal.
Using hcg to prevent testes from shrinking is an exercise in idiocy. They’re going to take an expensive injection twice a week for the rest of their lives just to keep their balls a little bigger??"… Also 90% of his guys use the 200 mg/ml at one ml per week. and some are at 300 per week… The guy takes the time out of his day to answer my questions via email and i believe he does this out of the goodness of his heart…
My family doctor tested me over and over again until he got a low normal result and told me it came back and I am fine. then i had another test to be sure and it was low again… The day I had that test i was in extreme fatigue and went to my urologist and decided to try the shots as i was so fatigued that what did I have to lose… To be honest this site has scared me more. I really don’t know what to believe and although maybe my libido is up I do not feel a lot better…
I am on my 7th week so not to late to get off the shots and restart I figured… How long Before you started to really feel improved by trt? Would you recommend me trying a restart and finding out whats wrong? Problem is once I get off I will most likely not be able to get a script again and i do have more energy and have been sleeping better or less… I work in construction and the days were killing me and i spent my nights sleeping off pain and fatigue…
Although i still do have a lot of pain it seems to be worse at the end of the week. I have the ability to get hcg an AI’s but only off lable and who knows what they are putting in that shit…Anyways I know it’s a lot but just your opinion would be good
Edit/
Also the urologist now has me on 150 per week cause I am young he said and may need a little more. I have done two shots and that dose and he wanted me to wait a month for blood work. I still have not had any blood work since i started trt. I should get my thyroid results today…
NEW THYROID LABS
TSH (1.08)…35-5.00 mIU/L
T4 FREE (17)…12-22 pmol/L
FREE T3 5.8… 2.6-5.7 pmol/L HIGH
THYROGLOBULIN AB (<20.)…<41 kIU/L
THYROID PEROXIDASE (<10.)…<35 KIU/L
Doc tells me this has nothing to do with body temperature and this isn’t a problem and he can’t help me!!
Has no idea what RT3 is? Honestly I have a fatty liver and pancreas, low free T, low body temps, my blood sugar has dropped twice in the past 8 months, once to the point I was in an ambulance but my fasting glucose seems to be normal.
Every time I enter he sends me out with nothing and says nothing we can do. This time it was I can’t help you… should I report this guy or what??? This is terrible
Do your own rT3 lab at lef.org, the lab work is on sale this month: Products | Blood Testing
As long as we are looking at adrenals: DHEA
rT3 blocking fT3 and lowering body temps makes sense. So now we are into AM cortisol test, do at 8AM.
Canada… oops, you can’t do your own labs…
Should you have been on TRT? Based on the initial labs I would have suggested dealing with E2 with AI and consideration of any liver issues that could cause that. And a good broad spectrum probiotic in case there is some bacterial issues freeing up estrogens from metabolites in the liver bile.
And the thyroid issues, then see where T goes.
With high E2, SHBG will be up and FT low.
We know that TRT + [thyroid or adrenal issues] = shitty experience.
KS gave you some good answers.
Your liver and pancreas don’t function optimally. This is why E2 is high and you have blood sugar problems.
What is your HBGA1C and SBGH?
As for HCG I posted before what shutdown LH on TRT does infertility, small nuts, no endogenous T, decreased DHEA, progesterone, and pregnenolone production. Doc is wrong even if he has 2,000 patients.
Should you have been on TRT? Personally I think TRT is a last option and the first thing to do is address other issues. It is also not a case where TRT was uncalled for.
Your LH was 4 and FSH 6 you were not repressed total T was average, but free T low. SBGH is probably high. Glucose can also mess with your temps. Thyroid looks good. Free T3 and T4 are ok. RT3 could be a problem. Insulin can also affect SBGH.
How old are you? What is your average BP?
Have you checked your adrenals?
ACTH
Cortisol
DHEAS
Living in Canada you are probably vit D deficient.
Your symptoms are coming from messed up hormones from liver and pancreas issues and problems with glucose regulation. Hypoglycemia - Wikipedia
Spread out your meals to help with glucose control.
You can try the three supplements for estrogen I mentioned before and check if that helps your liver clear estrogen.
Honestly, you are on TRT now and should try to make the best of it.
150 mg a week. Split them to 50 mg injections EOD subq.
Add HCG
Control estrogen. supplements and probably arimidex
Check adrenals
Correct any deficiencies of Vit D, b-12
Rule out any serious issues of pancreas like insulinoma
Stabilize glucose
With your possibly high SBGH you might need a higher dose of T to increase free T. That would increase E2 as well so you will probably need arimidex.
If you carry a lot of body fat, burning it off will help lower E2. TRT can lower glucose. Spread out meals include some complex carbs with each meal and carry a chocolate bar around incase you start feeling low.
Find a good doc.
Labs
TT
FT
SBGH
E2
Insulin
Cortisol
ACTH
IGF1
CMP
HGBA1C
Insulin
DHEA-S
CBC
Vit D
Ferretin
B12
RT3
Thank you very much to both of you!!! Info is great…shitty doctors suck…I have no idea how i can get the other labs you say i should get. i have a refural for an endo who is suppose to be good i have to drive an hour but shit happens. Problem is who knows how long i will have to wait to see him. Dont’t know what else to say… completely frustrated as now i have no family doctor…
I am 34 years old
i dont know what BP is?
Am fasting 2012/06/21
I found a set of labs
acth 2.7 …<10 pmol/L
rhuem factor <10… <14
hydroxy VitD 67… insufficiency 25-75 nmol/L I supplement every day since this
antinuclear ab… negative
glucose serum …5.2…3.6-6.0 normal fasting glucose
cholesterol 5.09… <5.20
triglycerides 0.49… <2.30 mmol/L
hdl cholesterol 1.28 … M: >=1.00 mmol/L
LDL cholesterol calc 3.59 … mmol
TC/hdl ratio…4.0
B-12…321 way above par
Farritin 141ug/L…80 to 300 Ug/l
Tsh… 0.62… 0.35-5.00 miu/l
hemoglobin aic 0.57… 0.40-0.60 non diabetic
cortisol random 256…65-540 nmol/L
psa 0.34ug/L
HEMOGLOBIN 147…M:135-170
RBC…4.77…M:4.20-5.70 X 10E12/L
HEMATOCRIT…4.77…m:4.20-5.70
I think there are some websites that let you convert units, I’m not as familiar with Canadian units. I you could convert them that would help.
Edit: JCS Clinical Laboratory Units Conversion
Get a cheap glucose meter for diabetics and measure your glucose before meals and 2 hours later.
BP is blood pressure.
Cortisol random?
It should be done about 8 am
Ya I didn’t know anything before and still know very little. It was done at 10: 40 am. But because I was fasting I’m assuming I slept in that day lol. My bp is up and down. Ill check it tomorrow and report. the hemo 0.57 was a typo. Thanks so much for ur help guys!!! Ill try to figure out how to convert the labs.
Good thing its a typo lol 0.057 would be insane
Still though its not a good sign you’ve had to go to the hospital for low sugar and I’m amazed these docs aren’t looking further.
Do get a meter and start looking for patterns of what causes your sugar to drop.
Ya man i am amazed also… seriously just discouraged… I will get a meter… Thanks again. Are you 24 years old?
I would be able to tell you ,right away i would say stress caused it… I was at a concert and and I felt a bit overwhelmed and for some reason the death of my best friend popped in my head and a few second later i was on the ground… I had eaten 4 times that day. and had one drink… glocose dropped to 2 they figured it out in the ambulace gave me come coke and a candy and sent me on my way lol…
Unemployed 22 year old.
Yeah stress is a bitch, sorry about your loss.
It has happened twice though?
Anyways take care and keep us updated.
[quote]Tunapancake wrote:
Unemployed 22 year old.
Yeah stress is a bitch, sorry about your loss.
It has happened twice though?
Anyways take care and keep us updated.[/quote]
Yes It’s happened twice… second time i caught it and drank some OJ and got a snack… i actually was at a clinic but it had gone back up by the time i got there
[quote]KSman wrote:
Should you have been on TRT? Based on the initial labs I would have suggested dealing with E2 with AI and consideration of any liver issues that could cause that. And a good broad spectrum probiotic in case there is some bacterial issues freeing up estrogens from metabolites in the liver bile.
And the thyroid issues, then see where T goes.
With high E2, SHBG will be up and FT low.
We know that TRT + [thyroid or adrenal issues] = shitty experience.
[/quote]
Thanks for your help… I have been quite frustrated and undereducated and It’s frustrating not knowing what the right thing to do is… I really do appreciate it.
[quote]Tunapancake wrote:
What KS described is for someone who is not on TRT. High E2 causes pitutiary repression as does prolactin. If the case is secondary and E2 is high lowering E2 could normalize LH and thus T.
E2 can also bind to T receptors and block T from working.
I don’t know much about IR, but under 12.5 mg you should be safe. Were your temps low? If so you can check if they are improving and stop IR once they normalize. You also need to check if FT3 and FT4 are low.
If you can’t get AI you can get it through research chems. If you over respond to arimidex you can try aromasin.
There is also a supplement called estrosmart that can help. High dose indole 3 carbinol, calcium d glucorate, DIM, can help the liver clear E2 as well as diet modifications. Eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables and avoid soy.
I don’t know about AI studies but HCG at 250iu should be safe. You should probably get some unless you want infertility, small nuts, no endogenous T, decreased DHEA, progesterone, and prenognelone production.[/quote]
Tuna where do I find these supplements? heath food store, GNC? or have to order them?
[quote]iw84aces wrote:
[quote]Tunapancake wrote:
What KS described is for someone who is not on TRT. High E2 causes pitutiary repression as does prolactin. If the case is secondary and E2 is high lowering E2 could normalize LH and thus T.
E2 can also bind to T receptors and block T from working.
I don’t know much about IR, but under 12.5 mg you should be safe. Were your temps low? If so you can check if they are improving and stop IR once they normalize. You also need to check if FT3 and FT4 are low.
If you can’t get AI you can get it through research chems. If you over respond to arimidex you can try aromasin.
There is also a supplement called estrosmart that can help. High dose indole 3 carbinol, calcium d glucorate, DIM, can help the liver clear E2 as well as diet modifications. Eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables and avoid soy.
I don’t know about AI studies but HCG at 250iu should be safe. You should probably get some unless you want infertility, small nuts, no endogenous T, decreased DHEA, progesterone, and prenognelone production.[/quote]
Tuna where do I find these supplements? heath food store, GNC? or have to order them?[/quote]
I use amazon.
Reverse T3 (also called Reverse Triiodothyronine) - Stop The Thyroid Madness hmmmm rt3 made in the liver!
Bump for jonmb11
I will be Editing this. These are my first labs after starting TRT. Yes i know it isn’t enough and i have been trying but docs just won’t do what i ask so here is some and i get more on thursday. these labs are 6 days in to my one week proticol. Yes I know but i can’t get doctors on board in the damn country and i don’t want to go underground as i feel im lucky in some ways to have the guy i have… Am i over prescribed? tell me what you think guys…
PSA 0.36… UG/L
TT 33.5 … 7.6-31.4 nmol/L HIGH
E2 124… <157
FT 62.1… 31.0-94.0 p,ol/l
GLOCOSE FASTING 4.9… 3.6-6.0 NORMAL FASTING GLUCOSE
CHOLESTEROL 4.27 < 5.20
TRIGLYCERIDES 0.52… <2.30 nmol/L
HDL O.99… >=1.00 mmol/L LOW
LDL 3.04
TC/HDL-C RATIO 4.3
AST 32…<37 U/L
ALT 59… <46 U/L HIGH
DHEAS-S 7.1…4.34-12.2 UMOL/L