[quote]pat wrote:
In the true application of occam’s razor, the opposite is true. The simplest claim with the fewest assumption is that they did have a divine encounter. It’s not reasonable to dismiss 2000 years of history as all being nuts.[/quote]
That’s just wrong. The simplest explanation is what we already use when talking about those “nutty” pagans.
And if you believe that 2,000 years means something then some ancient Egyptian must have been right about his beliefs. How about Hinduism? That’s older than Judaism. I mean, if it’s simply a question of time. Could all of those Indians, for all those millennia, been wrong? [/quote]
I never said they were wrong, you assume I believe they are wrong. And you clearly didn’t know what I was talking about when I was talking about 2000 years of history. I was talking about something very specific.
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh there is plenty of evidence for God’s existence. [/quote]
Which God? [/quote]
There, by logic, can only be one. It’s impossible for there to be more than one. So there is no ‘which one’. The question itself does not make any sense.
[quote]pat wrote:
In the true application of occam’s razor, the opposite is true. The simplest claim with the fewest assumption is that they did have a divine encounter. It’s not reasonable to dismiss 2000 years of history as all being nuts.[/quote]
That’s just wrong. The simplest explanation is what we already use when talking about those “nutty” pagans.
And if you believe that 2,000 years means something then some ancient Egyptian must have been right about his beliefs. How about Hinduism? That’s older than Judaism. I mean, if it’s simply a question of time. Could all of those Indians, for all those millennia, been wrong? [/quote]
I never said they were wrong, you assume I believe they are wrong. And you clearly didn’t know what I was talking about when I was talking about 2000 years of history. I was talking about something very specific. [/quote]
You don’t know what you are talking about, that much is clear. Your reasoning is sophomoric.
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh there is plenty of evidence for God’s existence. [/quote]
Which God? [/quote]
There, by logic, can only be one. It’s impossible for there to be more than one. So there is no ‘which one’. The question itself does not make any sense. [/quote]
OK, which gods or if you prefer, whose god/gods?
Agreed math is a discovery and not some random belief or man made invention.
[/quote]
Everything we know is ‘discovered’ we create nothing. Nobody has ever had an original thought even. We didn’t invent the car, we discovered it could be done. We didn’t invent the wheel, we discovered that something round, rolls. We didn’t invent fire, we discovered fire. We didn’t invent science, we discovered it.
That all exists beyond our knowledge of it as does much, much more we have yet to discover.[/quote]
Pre-humanist thinking. It’s also one of the tricks that the early Church used to create believers (followers). If it’s written down it must be true since we can’t create anything.
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh there is plenty of evidence for God’s existence. [/quote]
Which God? [/quote]
There, by logic, can only be one. It’s impossible for there to be more than one. So there is no ‘which one’. The question itself does not make any sense. [/quote]
OK, which gods or if you prefer, whose god/gods?
[/quote]
You are making an assumption here that man’s reason and perception is able to accurately describe, worship, communicate or even understand an omnipotent being.
As in, you’re trying to trick Pat into the “so many gods have been worshiped by man, no one can be the correct one” trap, when it isn’t even a trap if one take a moment to remember human fallibility. It doesn’t matter if one man describes it as 100 gods, another calls him Jesus and another speaks to the trees in the forest.
An omnipotent being will understand we as people are pretty dumb, and are bound to get some of the messages confused, if such a being is. Just because people describe something in different ways, different multiples, different names or whatever, doesn’t preclude an omnipotent being.
So the answer to your question is, was and always be “God”.
Agreed math is a discovery and not some random belief or man made invention.
[/quote]
Everything we know is ‘discovered’ we create nothing. Nobody has ever had an original thought even. We didn’t invent the car, we discovered it could be done. We didn’t invent the wheel, we discovered that something round, rolls. We didn’t invent fire, we discovered fire. We didn’t invent science, we discovered it.
That all exists beyond our knowledge of it as does much, much more we have yet to discover.[/quote]
Pre-humanist thinking. It’s also one of the tricks that the early Church used to create believers (followers). If it’s written down it must be true since we can’t create anything. [/quote]
Then I suppose “post humanist” thinking is the arrogant notion that humans are significant in any way, and we are suddenly great because we have iPhones and movies and shit?
There are at LEAST two ‘Gods’…The Bible says Satan is the ‘‘God’’ of this World (2 Corinthians 4:4),
and one of the 10 Commandment is: ‘‘thou shalt not have any God before me’’…Interesting
that the commandment DOES NOT say, ‘there are no other Gods in existence’.
יהוה is the ‘One’ and only God however that created the Universe and is the Almighty.
[quote]Karado wrote:
There are at LEAST two ‘Gods’…The Bible says Satan is the ‘‘God’’ of this World (2 Corinthians 4:4),
and one of the 10 Commandment is: ‘‘thou shalt not have any God before me’’…Interesting
that the commandment DOES NOT say, ‘there are no other Gods in existence’.
יהוה is the ‘One’ and only God however that created the Universe and is the Almighty.
Agreed math is a discovery and not some random belief or man made invention.
[/quote]
Everything we know is ‘discovered’ we create nothing. Nobody has ever had an original thought even. We didn’t invent the car, we discovered it could be done. We didn’t invent the wheel, we discovered that something round, rolls. We didn’t invent fire, we discovered fire. We didn’t invent science, we discovered it.
That all exists beyond our knowledge of it as does much, much more we have yet to discover.[/quote]
Pre-humanist thinking. It’s also one of the tricks that the early Church used to create believers (followers). If it’s written down it must be true since we can’t create anything. [/quote]
No, it’s plain fact. Give me an original thought or create something original with no precedent. I won’t hold my breath. We can reorganize things, but those ‘things’ already exist.
[quote]pat wrote:
Oh there is plenty of evidence for God’s existence. [/quote]
Which God? [/quote]
There, by logic, can only be one. It’s impossible for there to be more than one. So there is no ‘which one’. The question itself does not make any sense. [/quote]
OK, which gods or if you prefer, whose god/gods?
[/quote]
You are making an assumption here that man’s reason and perception is able to accurately describe, worship, communicate or even understand an omnipotent being.
As in, you’re trying to trick Pat into the “so many gods have been worshiped by man, no one can be the correct one” trap, when it isn’t even a trap if one take a moment to remember human fallibility. It doesn’t matter if one man describes it as 100 gods, another calls him Jesus and another speaks to the trees in the forest.
An omnipotent being will understand we as people are pretty dumb, and are bound to get some of the messages confused, if such a being is. Just because people describe something in different ways, different multiples, different names or whatever, doesn’t preclude an omnipotent being.
So the answer to your question is, was and always be “God”. [/quote]
That ‘trick’ has been so played out it has no effect, at all. The fact that an ‘Uncaused-cause’ or Necessary Being must exist washed away in the sewer of ancient understandings or misunderstandings. It’s a fact deduced by logic. It is neither more or less than that.
[quote]Karado wrote:
There are at LEAST two ‘Gods’…The Bible says Satan is the ‘‘God’’ of this World (2 Corinthians 4:4),
and one of the 10 Commandment is: ‘‘thou shalt not have any God before me’’…Interesting
that the commandment DOES NOT say, ‘there are no other Gods in existence’.
יהוה is the ‘One’ and only God however that created the Universe and is the Almighty.
[/quote]
True. Islam is more monotheistic in that regard. [/quote]
[quote]Karado wrote:
There are at LEAST two ‘Gods’…The Bible says Satan is the ‘‘God’’ of this World (2 Corinthians 4:4),
and one of the 10 Commandment is: ‘‘thou shalt not have any God before me’’…Interesting
that the commandment DOES NOT say, ‘there are no other Gods in existence’.
יהוה is the ‘One’ and only God however that created the Universe and is the Almighty.
[/quote]
True. Islam is more monotheistic in that regard. [/quote]
Ahhh…Colonel Ketchup is joining with Colonel Mustard? Can you together help complement the perfect hot dog?
The Bible also said Baal was the god of the Philistines. I would imagine that even the most devout Muslim would admit the Philistines worshiped the god, Baal. Would that make that Muslim a heretic for implying there is more than one god?
Sheesh, you two are thicker than I expected.[/quote]
What does Canaanite idol worship have to do with Islam? Has there been anyone worshipping Ba’al (the name simply means “The Lord”, by the way) in the last 1400 years? Are there any Philistines anymore?
Agreed math is a discovery and not some random belief or man made invention.
[/quote]
Everything we know is ‘discovered’ we create nothing. Nobody has ever had an original thought even. We didn’t invent the car, we discovered it could be done. We didn’t invent the wheel, we discovered that something round, rolls. We didn’t invent fire, we discovered fire. We didn’t invent science, we discovered it.
That all exists beyond our knowledge of it as does much, much more we have yet to discover.[/quote]
Would you say all of those discoveries you listed are facts, or merely beliefs and inventions like dmaddox stated?
