[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
They were very real to the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Norse.
You’d be in big trouble had you implied that they were not to the devout believers in Sparta, Alexandria and Oslo. [/quote]
And that’s the problem with the religious. It is real to them and that’s enough for it to be real. Belief is not truth. [/quote]
And one day it will be Real Truth to you also. Just wait.
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Who said it wasn’t already? The problem with most who claim to be religious is that they are fundamentalists. Faith without doubt. [/quote]
Is it doubt or their unwillingness to question? You can not doubt God exists and be a believer. You can question God of why? King David in the Bible did it all the time. I also question God about why things happen the way they do. It is hard to see through my eyes, but when you look back at history you can see parts to the question why.
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It’s their unwillingness to search for the truth. They don’t have faith, they have simply been convinced. It’s not about the existence of God but the arrogance to believe they know God, speak for God…speak with God. Fundamentalists believe everything we need to know about existence is known. It has been shown to us by God via whomever claimed he speaks for Him. The things we don’t know, don’t need to be known. Any question that cannot be answered with scripture is not worth pondering, let alone answering. [/quote]
How do you come to have any opinion at all in life without being convinced of it? I think you should rephrase what you’re saying here because to me it doesn’t make any sense. I am convinced of all my currently held opinions or believes on science, on the Patriots, on the Chiefs being 9-0 and lucky, all of that. You don’t reach a single belief in your life that you aren’t “simply been convinced of”.
I’d also take issue with your comment that Fundamentalists believe everything we need to know about existence is already known…blah blah blah scripture and not pondering. I’ve never met one that thought we should stop researching drugs, or medical procedures, or physics, or math, or biology, or chemistry, or cryptography, or anything. You made a silly statement with that, it is indefensible and I believe that you know it. Your feelings on religion aside–or for that matter certain hot button issues currently being quarreled over–that is a manifestly false statement and you cannot defend it. The most you can say is that you haven’t really bothered talking to them very much. [/quote]
Faith requires, by definition, the presence of doubt. If someone says they KNOW God exists how is it possible? They actually have irrefutable evidence? No. Yet somehow they are convinced He exists. Now, you take someone who believes God exists. He knows there is no proof. He knows he cannot prove He exists to someone else. He believes God exists but he doesn’t say he knows God exists. You can say that, that person is also convinced however, if you read what I wrote, I qualified convinced with simply. One goes from convinced to belief then belief creates truth. The other goes from truth to belief to being convinced. There is a difference between those who need to be convinced and those who need to see the truth. It’s like a detective who is convinced that someone is guilty and then looks for the evidence that supports that belief versus the one who follows the evidence.
Do you know what fundamentalist means? Tell me how many support stem cell research? Evolution? Gay rights? None do otherwise they wouldn’t be fundamentalists. Besides that, I wrote existence. I didn’t write math, science, etc. I am talking about questions like why are we here? What are we supposed to do? Questions involving the human condition.