what are you doing to fix your terrible Thyroid numbers?
TSH > 1 means that there are issues.
TSH >2 means that you have a problem that needs to be fixed.
Have you ever run a complete Thyroid panel?
TSH
Total T4
Total T3
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
AM Cortisol
ferritin
Yikes - your doctor dismissed your results of your ACTH test that showed basically NO REACTION!!! and you still want to continue seeing this doctor because?
Go see that out of network doc. Check with your insurance but most will still cover lab work ordered by any doctor as long as you go to an in-network lab group (like Quest or LabCorp)
[quote]PureChance wrote:
what are you doing to fix your terrible Thyroid numbers?
TSH > 1 means that there are issues.
TSH >2 means that you have a problem that needs to be fixed.
Have you ever run a complete Thyroid panel?
TSH
Total T4
Total T3
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
AM Cortisol
ferritin
Yikes - your doctor dismissed your results of your ACTH test that showed basically NO REACTION!!! and you still want to continue seeing this doctor because?
Go see that out of network doc. Check with your insurance but most will still cover lab work ordered by any doctor as long as you go to an in-network lab group (like Quest or LabCorp)[/quote]
so you want your TSH to be lower in the range? I always thought it was higher and I was in the middle.
The range for TSH is insanely wide and peaks at ‘5’ for some labs. Medical panels have asked that the range be narrowed. Lab ranges really are what the labs find statistically in a population of samples, which obviously includes some very ill people. Rarely to lab ranges get adjusted to define what is though to be healthy. The two obvious examples are the lowering of serum glucose limits and cholesterol limits. In those cases, the ranges are no longer statistical measures but are tools to direct doctors and patients to healthier outcomes.
But for the most part, mainstream doctors associate normal range with a satisfactory situation that does not require any intervention at all. For most docs, the concept of seeking an optimal level to improve health does not exist. If you are normal range, you are healthy. These docs are in disease management. If you do not have a disease or abnormality, they will not do anything. Doctors mostly do not practice health management or optimization. Insurance companies drive much of this as they do not pay for anything that does not have a disease ‘code’. So in many regards, preventative medicine does not exist. The exceptions are tobacco cessation, reduction of cholesterol, management of serum glucose; which all reduce the costs for insurance companies. They pick the low hanging fruit - by mostly defining new disease states and lab ranges.
Are there exceptions, yes, you can find doctors who are into health optimization, but sadly, finding one, or often one you can afford is an exception. Most are destined to get caught up in a medical system where the doctors are corporate puppies who do not know how to think on their own and are actively discouraged from doing otherwise.
When I used it for gyno symptoms I started with 20mg daily before bed until symptoms cleared and then 10mg daily for maintenance I could tell it did something as I started to shoot monster load while I used it.
[quote]KSman wrote:
You need hCG, but you might need more FSH to get the sperm count up. This naturally lead to consideration of using a SERM that can create high LH and FSH, just what you need. Clomid has been around for a long time and has been used for fertility for men and women. So there is a lot of info out there. However, clomid can have deep estrogenic sides. Nolvadex is a better option in terms of avoiding estrogenic side effects.
So now you have two choices. SERMs are easier to obtain than hCG for domestic non-legal sources. hCG can be mailed in from overseas. But there are some legal concerns as some States have criminalized hCG by putting it in the same class of substances as anabolic steroids.
What form of TRT are you using. Lab numbers, ranges?[/quote]
It’s actually far more practical and safer and less of a hassle to do this:
See a urologist who deals with fertility problems.
Have him/her prescribe HCG or clomid. Neither medication is expensive with or without insurance. [/quote]
This is what I did and although my count fluctuates wildly I have been as high as 65 million while on 175mg T. Take it for what it’s worth but before even starting T I was at 880 thousand…
I want to report that my wife is pregnant and I will no longer have to worry about fertility from this point on since I only wanted two kids and we are now on three. Thanks for your help.
I also want to report that I am seeing a new D.O. Doctor and she is converting me over to compounding cream for my t-replacement. We are also doing the ZRT labs saliva testing and some blood testing for a more comprehensive look at my system. I’m hoping this is the right path for me.
igloo - you may want to consider continuing HCG use. when on T replacement, your body stops producing LH and FSH. Those effect more than just sperm production. There are interactions with pregnenolone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, cortisol, etc. I am not 100% clear on all of it, but HCG seems to have a much wider impact then simply maintaining testicular size and function.
more information (i.e. - additional tests) is always a good thing (in my opinion).
There have been a few studies showing that smaller doses can be effective. Try 10mg. If you really want to know, get tested for LH/FSH later. You do not need these to be high, all you really need is what promotes a decent sperm count. You do not need LH levels to produce T, that is what your injections are for.
For those who have shrinkage from TRT induced HPTA shutdown, they would be able to note improvements just as they would with hCG injections. A sperm count could also be warranted in some situations.
I was taking nolva 10mg/day.
I’m not going to continue with the nolva. I’m going to go on the compounding cream t replacement for a month and then do the ZRT labs testing with my new doctor. When we get the results back from that, we will have a better picture at what else we should put in with the compounded medication (HCG, T3/T4, etc.).
I am happy to be getting off the injections though, they put me in a position to retain a lot of water; even when I did the 2x/week injections.
I am not a fan about saliva tests because I really do not understand the implications of the numbers, and no one else here I expect. This really becomes an issue with E2.
After these results they started me on levothyroxine for my thyroid along with my testosterone treatment. I am hoping to be able to come off adderall in a week when my morning fatigue lifts. I am hoping that things will finally start to get better for me.
Anyone have any useful information in regards to thyroid or my test results for me? I am blessed to have such an intelligent group of individuals to discuss this with.
Those thyroid levels really are low. Monitor waking body temperatures as this can be a good dosing guide. Your cortisol might improve if your adrenals are basically healthy and were inhibited by a low thyroid levels. We do know that restoring T and/or thyroid can make adrenal fatigue worse.
I have little experience with cortisol levels: your lowish cortisol levels may explain why you found adderall useful, it was masking the problem. I think that you will need to watch your cortisol levels and be watching for symptoms when T and thyroid have good labs. If you hit the wall, cortisol may be the reason and then you would also be checking its companion rT3.
You should be able to loose weight and gain muscle mass.
would you consider Levothyroxine an adequate treatment to start with? There is so much b.s. out there with people complaining that when they started their thyroid meds they gained 20/30+ lbs. I’ve read that Armour thyroid replacement is more effective; I questioned my doc about it and she told me that she is shying away from it because about a year ago there was a big shortage on it and her clients couldn’t get it so she had to switch them all over to levothyroxine/synthroid.
I didn’t think my cortisol levels were low except for at night which wasn’t a big deal to me since I’d be sleeping. I was actually really happy to see my cortisol in the middle of normal range.
NeelyDan- I completely agree with you! I’ve had this drag on my life for so long because of a thyroid deficit and my TSH always came back in the range of normal, high end, but still normal. If only I would have found a doc to test my T3 and T4 five years ago I could have stayed away from drugs like ephedrine and adderrall.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Those thyroid levels really are low. Monitor waking body temperatures as this can be a good dosing guide. Your cortisol might improve if your adrenals are basically healthy and were inhibited by a low thyroid levels. We do know that restoring T and/or thyroid can make adrenal fatigue worse.
I have little experience with cortisol levels: your lowish cortisol levels may explain why you found adderall useful, it was masking the problem. I think that you will need to watch your cortisol levels and be watching for symptoms when T and thyroid have good labs. If you hit the wall, cortisol may be the reason and then you would also be checking its companion rT3.
You should be able to loose weight and gain muscle mass.[/quote]
Its been a little more than 4 weeks now and I have gained 8-10lbs after starting T4 @ 50mcgs/day. I am a bit distraught and have been recently been going to bed earlier and sleeping later with a tougher time getting out of bed in the morning. I used to stay up until 11pm-12pm and now I have been going to bed between 9pm and 10pm and sleeping until 7am. I am looking for a little direction. I am getting blood work done in two weeks and having a follow up to adjust meds in 4 weeks from today. Libido is still fine. The first week I was supplementing T4, I felt pretty damn good, but since then its all fucked. What would you think?
[quote]PureChance wrote:
I think that your extra T4 is dumping straight to Reverse T3 because you don’t have enough cortisol to compensate for the extra T4.
have you checked out stopthethyroidmadness? they can give you details about how T4 messes with a huge number of people and why.[/quote]
I have read it, yes. Its a good site, but I also somehow feel like I’m being sold so I want to do this by testing and not logical thinking. I will ask my doc to test TSH, T3, T4, rT3, Free T, E2 and total T when she gets back next week. Anything else you would recommend? I know the doc talked about going this route first and if we needed to later we would put me on a t4/t3 daily med and find what works. I have been craving sugar like no tommorrow lately and having frontal lobe headaches quite a bit.