Gun Control II

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
What was “amiss” is an inherent problem with the way news is delivered in the 21st Century…lack of editorial controls because of the almost instantaneous delivery of news.

Every news agency from “CNN” to “FOX” and from “Huffington” to “Bloomberg” wants to be the first with “the scoop”. It is much easier to “put it out there” first, then correct it; than to be the last to get the most up-to-date information.

“Put it out there”…then check the facts later.

Mufasa[/quote]
You are, without doubt, absolutely correct.

The thing that troubles me is that her true identity has not been reported as of yet. I have heard a couple of blurbs about her being a financial adviser, but that’s it. It’s almost as if they don’t want to mention that she worked for CitiGroup Global for 12 years. Or that she was working for Morgan Stanley at the time of her murder.

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Jay,

I bought the book you recommended me - thank you![/quote]
Anything to help someone willing to arm themselves and learn how to properly defend themselves and those around them.

I had no doubt.

[quote]I also understand people in general do not want to be served the truth.

Many a times, even in the presence of enough evidence denial takes place and one cannot make others see what their mind’s eye does not want to see.[/quote]
Is there a label for the opposite of ‘confirmation bias’? If not, we need to quoin one. It’s a widespread symptom.

[quote]Also people have deep attachments to their country and faith in the system.
Presenting them with the possibility of a horrific reality is an insult to their sensibilities and a major threat to their inner security.[/quote]
I wish I could change that to “deep attachments to their country and faith in the People”. Our People are the biggest assets to everything American. Yes, there are some crazy folks out there, but I have faith in Us as a whole.

[quote]Think of how competent you are and able to defend your self both physically, psychologically and intellectually.
Exploring difficult facts is not as bad for you as it is for many who have decided to share their trust with their government.[/quote]
Not to be conceited, but I have taken that into account.

It’s sad that there are people out there who are afraid of their own neighbors. It’s sad that so many are afraid to step on toes for fear of being labeled. It’s so much worse that people are so averse to discomfort and inconvenience that they’d rather have someone else do their dirty work for them.

[quote]Have you heard of the CIA program MK Ultra?
Is it possible the government does use children to advance their causes?[/quote]
Yes. I’ve seen some of the desired symptoms of it in a few criminal cases from around the world, but the nature of the technology makes it impossible to even point out any compelling evidence. Other than the fact of a perfectly normal, high-achieving 20-something-year-old snapping crazy one day out of the clear blue, there’s nothing to point out.

[quote]Let the reader use their own discernment.

Remember this, please: “extreme claims require extreme proof”.

Back in the day Pearl Harbor would have been called a “conspiracy theory” and now “straight history” has acknowledged what one president was willing to sacrifice to achieve his aim.
[/quote]
There were also reports of GDub being informed of the WTC attack before it happened, but hell, terrorists threaten the U.S. every single day. It’s part of their MO. They threaten until you think “just another empty threat” and drop your guard.

As far as whether or not it was planned and carried out by our government? Eh. I know the second plane didn’t look like an airliner. I know that WTC7 wasn’t hit, but collapsed anyway. I’m also sure that it was not a plane that hit the pentagon.

I know that we fought undeclared wars in two countries over supposed proof in the case, but yet the crimes for which Bin Laden was wanted by the CIA did not list involvement in the WTC attack. The CIA even admitted that there was not enough proof to make that claim. We can’t put it beside his name on a website wanted poster, but we can fight two wars over it? GTFO.

I can’t say who did it, but I can call bullshit!

Wow. I had no idea we were conversing with truthers. If I had known that, I wouldn’t have wasted my time.

[quote][quote]I also understand people in general do not want to be served the truth.

Many a times, even in the presence of enough evidence denial takes place and one cannot make others see what their mind’s eye does not want to see.[/quote]

Is there a label for the opposite of ‘confirmation bias’? If not, we need to quoin one. It’s a widespread symptom.[/quote]

There is a label for everything.

“Cognitive dissonance” is the one you’re looking for here.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
To think that GW Bush, or Barack Obama would actually be behind the murder of innocent Americans is absolutly incredible. [/quote]

Look at history and at how many innocent people have been killed by their governments. A lot of them were elected officials.

The power wielded by government attracts evil men. I don’t trust any of them.

[/quote]

Not trusting a politician is a far cry from accusing one of them of a mass scale murder with hundreds of accomplices.

now get busy and point out a handful of…two or three… examples in American history where the government turned on it’s own people perpetrated an enormous hoax and killed hundreds of innocent civilians.

For my peeps that have been following along and paying attention to a few key posters. I know you have recognized something rather ‘organized’ about their posts. Here is some pertinent info regarding what they do and how they do it;

COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum.

There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a ‘uncontrolled forum.’

Technique #1 - ‘FORUM SLIDING’

If a very sensitive posting of a critical nature has been posted on a forum - it can be quickly removed from public view by ‘forum sliding.’ In this technique a number of unrelated posts are quietly prepositioned on the forum and allowed to ‘age.’ Each of these misdirectional forum postings can then be called upon at will to trigger a ‘forum slide.’ The second requirement is that several fake accounts exist, which can be called upon, to ensure that this technique is not exposed to the public. To trigger a ‘forum slide’ and ‘flush’ the critical post out of public view it is simply a matter of logging into each account both real and fake and then ‘replying’ to prepositined postings with a simple 1 or 2 line comment. This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list, and the critical posting ‘slides’ down the front page, and quickly out of public view. Although it is difficult or impossible to censor the posting it is now lost in a sea of unrelated and unuseful postings. By this means it becomes effective to keep the readers of the forum reading unrelated and non-issue items.

Technique #2 - ‘CONSENSUS CRACKING’

A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at www.abovetopsecret.com) is ‘consensus cracking.’ To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made - but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger ‘evidence’ or disinformation in your favour is slowly ‘seeded in.’ Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then ‘abort’ the consensus cracking by initiating a ‘forum slide.’

Technique #3 - ‘TOPIC DILUTION’

Topic dilution is not only effective in forum sliding it is also very useful in keeping the forum readers on unrelated and non-productive issues. This is a critical and useful technique to cause a ‘RESOURCE BURN.’ By implementing continual and non-related postings that distract and disrupt (trolling ) the forum readers they are more effectively stopped from anything of any real productivity. If the intensity of gradual dilution is intense enough, the readers will effectively stop researching and simply slip into a ‘gossip mode.’ In this state they can be more easily misdirected away from facts towards uninformed conjecture and opinion. The less informed they are the more effective and easy it becomes to control the entire group in the direction that you would desire the group to go in. It must be stressed that a proper assessment of the psychological capabilities and levels of education is first determined of the group to determine at what level to ‘drive in the wedge.’ By being too far off topic too quickly it may trigger censorship by a forum moderator.

Technique #4 - ‘INFORMATION COLLECTION’

Information collection is also a very effective method to determine the psychological level of the forum members, and to gather intelligence that can be used against them. In this technique in a light and positive environment a ‘show you mine so me yours’ posting is initiated. From the number of replies and the answers that are provided much statistical information can be gathered. An example is to post your ‘favourite weapon’ and then encourage other members of the forum to showcase what they have. In this matter it can be determined by reverse proration what percentage of the forum community owns a firearm, and or a illegal weapon. This same method can be used by posing as one of the form members and posting your favourite ‘technique of operation.’ From the replies various methods that the group utilizes can be studied and effective methods developed to stop them from their activities.

Technique #5 - ‘ANGER TROLLING’

Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to ‘stage’ a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to ‘lead’ the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you ‘do not care what the authorities think!!’ inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.

Technique #6 - ‘GAINING FULL CONTROL’

It is important to also be harvesting and continually maneuvering for a forum moderator position. Once this position is obtained, the forum can then be effectively and quietly controlled by deleting unfavourable postings - and one can eventually steer the forum into complete failure and lack of interest by the general public. This is the ‘ultimate victory’ as the forum is no longer participated with by the general public and no longer useful in maintaining their freedoms. Depending on the level of control you can obtain, you can deliberately steer a forum into defeat by censoring postings, deleting memberships, flooding, and or accidentally taking the forum offline. By this method the forum can be quickly killed. However it is not always in the interest to kill a forum as it can be converted into a ‘honey pot’ gathering center to collect and misdirect newcomers and from this point be completely used for your control for your agenda purposes.

CONCLUSION

Remember these techniques are only effective if the forum participants DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEM. Once they are aware of these techniques the operation can completely fail, and the forum can become uncontrolled. At this point other avenues must be considered such as initiating a false legal precidence to simply have the forum shut down and taken offline. This is not desirable as it then leaves the enforcement agencies unable to track the percentage of those in the population who always resist attempts for control against them. Many other techniques can be utilized and developed by the individual and as you develop further techniques of infiltration and control it is imperative to share then with HQ.

Initiate forum slide, gentlemen. I’ll just post it again later.

Hell, I might just make it another thread. Think I could get it stickied?

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Let’s look at what a conspiracy would entail:

The children listed as killed–they had to be real kids. You can’t make up the names of children and then pretend that they’ve been living in a community and attending public school. You can’t bandy the names of fake children and their fake parents about the national airwaves without people in the community stopping and asking, “Wait, has anyone ever heard of these people before?”

So, what happened to the kids then? They’re going to be hidden forever? Going to have to assume new names and new identities? And, since the parents of the children can’t all get up and move away from the town at once, who’s going to be taking care of these children? Surely they aren’t going to be hidden in the basements of their old houses for decades?

What about all of the first responders. All paid off? Or were they tricked with fake blood and fake corpses? If the former: when were they notified of this? How were they notified? Would the planners and executors of one of the most daring cover-ups in American history call a bunch of local cops and EMT’s into a room and say, “hey guys, we’re going to be faking like two dozen deaths here in a month or two. Need you on board. Cool?”

What about the hundreds of neighbors and distant relatives interviewed in the aftermath? Were they in on it, or are they being duped like the rest of us? How is little Jane Doe going to be hidden from Uncle Bob for the rest of her life?

And most importantly: with this army of actors and fakers and bribe-takers, are we to believe that there isn’t a single one among them tempted by the notoriety that he or she would win by blowing the whistle? Not one who got drunk at a holiday party and found it impossible not to let on about an earth-shattering secret of national consequence?

Contending with the above we have the tinfoil-hat crowd–the guy who solved “Lost,” that is–and his bulletproof evidence: a little girl who shares clothing with her sister and a hysterical interviewee who laughed in a moment of grief.

[/quote]

In case someone who is entertaining this “idea” wants to respond.

An interesting situation has presented itself in Mexico.

A group of people have turned to vigilante-ism to protect itself from insane level of crimes and corruption.

"Now he has joined hundreds of other men in the southern Mexico state of Guerrero who have taken up arms to defend their villages against drug gangs, a vigilante movement born of frustration at extortion, killings and kidnappings that local police are unable, or unwilling, to stop.

Vigilantes patrol a dozen or more towns in rural Mexico, the unauthorized but often tolerated edge of a growing movement toward armed citizen self-defense squads across the country.

“The situation Mexico is experiencing, the crime, is what has given the communities the legitimacy to say, `We will assume the tasks that the government has not been able to fulfill,'” said rights activist Roman Hernandez, whose group Tlachinollan has worked with the community forces."

At least we can thank Eric Holder that they have guns.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
For my peeps that have been following along and paying attention to a few key posters. I know you have recognized something rather ‘organized’ about their posts. Here is some pertinent info regarding what they do and how they do it;
[/quote]

Wait, so there is a mini-conspiracy taking place within this discussion of a larger conspiracy whereby some posters are plotting to control the forum?

A conspiracy within a conspiracy?

My man, you need to stop taking whatever drugs are making you this…

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
For my peeps that have been following along and paying attention to a few key posters. I know you have recognized something rather ‘organized’ about their posts. Here is some pertinent info regarding what they do and how they do it;
[/quote]

Wait, so there is a mini-conspiracy taking place within this discussion of a larger conspiracy whereby some posters are plotting to control the forum?

A conspiracy within a conspiracy?

My man, you need to stop taking whatever drugs are making you this…[/quote]

Listen it wasn’t your turn and I mean you logged into the wrong user name and goddamit if we are going to scroll his posts to irrelevancy you need to quote his bigass long ones. Get with the program you don’t want to get sent to the reeducation division again. Prime minister of disinformation Lewinsky is vicious.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Wait, so there is a mini-conspiracy taking place within this discussion of a larger conspiracy whereby some posters are plotting to control the forum?

A conspiracy within a conspiracy?

My man, you need to stop taking whatever drugs are making you this…[/quote]

Are we part of the COINTELPRO operatives who are trying to control the forum, do you think? He refers to “a few key posters.”

If so, I need to make some phone calls. I haven’t gotten paid by them for my efforts.

Patience, my friends.

[photo]38097[/photo]

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Let’s look at what a conspiracy would entail:

The children listed as killed–they had to be real kids. You can’t make up the names of children and then pretend that they’ve been living in a community and attending public school. You can’t bandy the names of fake children and their fake parents about the national airwaves without people in the community stopping and asking, “Wait, has anyone ever heard of these people before?”

So, what happened to the kids then? They’re going to be hidden forever? Going to have to assume new names and new identities? And, since the parents of the children can’t all get up and move away from the town at once, who’s going to be taking care of these children? Surely they aren’t going to be hidden in the basements of their old houses for decades?

What about all of the first responders. All paid off? Or were they tricked with fake blood and fake corpses? If the former: when were they notified of this? How were they notified? Would the planners and executors of one of the most daring cover-ups in American history call a bunch of local cops and EMT’s into a room and say, “hey guys, we’re going to be faking like two dozen deaths here in a month or two. Need you on board. Cool?”

What about the hundreds of neighbors and distant relatives interviewed in the aftermath? Were they in on it, or are they being duped like the rest of us? How is little Jane Doe going to be hidden from Uncle Bob for the rest of her life?

And most importantly: with this army of actors and fakers and bribe-takers, are we to believe that there isn’t a single one among them tempted by the notoriety that he or she would win by blowing the whistle? Not one who got drunk at a holiday party and found it impossible not to let on about an earth-shattering secret of national consequence?

Contending with the above we have the tinfoil-hat crowd–the guy who solved “Lost,” that is–and his bulletproof evidence: a little girl who shares clothing with her sister and a hysterical interviewee who laughed in a moment of grief.

[/quote]

In case someone who is entertaining this “idea” wants to respond.[/quote]
It would only take a handful of actors. I could probably pull it off with the blue team, the red team, the ‘victims’, and the first responders, along with some supporting actors after the fact just for media coverage credibility. Care would have to be taken to suppress any pictures and videos of the scene, and to suppress the video from the school’s security system.

There is an article in the Newtown Bee containing an interview with the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance crew. One member of the crew noted that “they did everything but drive the truck for me back there” and “I’ve never seen anything like it. You’d think it was an exercise drill”.

http://newtownbee.com/News/News/2012/12-December/2012-12-20__18-52-18/Ambulance+Crew+Responded+To+Newtown’s+Best,+Worst+Moments+In+Recent+Days

And then you have the video of the Governor plainly stating that he and the Lieutenant Governor were “spoken to” about “something like this playing out in our state” that is all over the place.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Let’s look at what a conspiracy would entail:

The children listed as killed–they had to be real kids. You can’t make up the names of children and then pretend that they’ve been living in a community and attending public school. You can’t bandy the names of fake children and their fake parents about the national airwaves without people in the community stopping and asking, “Wait, has anyone ever heard of these people before?”

So, what happened to the kids then? They’re going to be hidden forever? Going to have to assume new names and new identities? And, since the parents of the children can’t all get up and move away from the town at once, who’s going to be taking care of these children? Surely they aren’t going to be hidden in the basements of their old houses for decades?

What about all of the first responders. All paid off? Or were they tricked with fake blood and fake corpses? If the former: when were they notified of this? How were they notified? Would the planners and executors of one of the most daring cover-ups in American history call a bunch of local cops and EMT’s into a room and say, “hey guys, we’re going to be faking like two dozen deaths here in a month or two. Need you on board. Cool?”

What about the hundreds of neighbors and distant relatives interviewed in the aftermath? Were they in on it, or are they being duped like the rest of us? How is little Jane Doe going to be hidden from Uncle Bob for the rest of her life?

And most importantly: with this army of actors and fakers and bribe-takers, are we to believe that there isn’t a single one among them tempted by the notoriety that he or she would win by blowing the whistle? Not one who got drunk at a holiday party and found it impossible not to let on about an earth-shattering secret of national consequence?

Contending with the above we have the tinfoil-hat crowd–the guy who solved “Lost,” that is–and his bulletproof evidence: a little girl who shares clothing with her sister and a hysterical interviewee who laughed in a moment of grief.

[/quote]

In case someone who is entertaining this “idea” wants to respond.[/quote]
It would only take a handful of actors. I could probably pull it off with the blue team, the red team, the ‘victims’, and the first responders, along with some supporting actors after the fact just for media coverage credibility. Care would have to be taken to suppress any pictures and videos of the scene, and to suppress the video from the school’s security system.

There is an article in the Newtown Bee containing an interview with the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance crew. One member of the crew noted that “they did everything but drive the truck for me back there” and “I’ve never seen anything like it. You’d think it was an exercise drill”.

http://newtownbee.com/News/News/2012/12-December/2012-12-20__18-52-18/Ambulance+Crew+Responded+To+Newtown’s+Best,+Worst+Moments+In+Recent+Days

And then you have the video of the Governor plainly stating that he and the Lieutenant Governor were “spoken to” about “something like this playing out in our state” that is all over the place.[/quote]

I’m not going to argue back and forth on something like this, but I will leave you with this: you’re spitting into a volcano and calling yourself a fireman. The breadth and depth of the evidence against you is staggeringly real, and in response you are hanging on minutiae like a vague sentence spoken at a rushed press conference and intended only to set up the old line about “you’re never prepared for something like this.”

Furthermore, you are casually shrugging most of my criticisms: who are the actors and how were they chosen? How were the first responders approached? How is their compliance assured? How is their silence going to be assured in the interminable future? Is it possible that dozens if not hundreds of fakers could be involved in a ruse of this devastating magnitude without a single one blowing the whistle or confiding in a big-mouthed spouse or friend? What happened to the kids who’ve supposedly died? Where are they? Who is caring for them? Will they be hidden forever more from their extended families? How? And how will the silence of a bunch of eight year old kids be assured?

I will suggest to you without intending to insult that your eagerness to believe that Sandy Hook was a hoax should disturb you somewhat. Tiribulus enjoys making the point that most of us go through life with a false sense of certainty; he is correct: we can’t truly be sure that Newtown was not a hoax, just as we can’t truly be sure that Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States and we can’t truly be sure that the Earth revolves around the sun. We can’t even prove that our lives have happened as we believe that they have.

But let’s set aside the inherent uncertainty of the human condition for a moment: Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President. The Earth revolves around the sun. And twenty children died by gunshot on December 14, 2012 in Newtown, CT. These are [i]the only[/i] conclusions that a rational human being can reach on the evidence available to him.

Anyone who refuses to believe those first two is crazy. Anyone who refuses to believe the last is both crazy and so lacking in compassion as to be nearly inhuman.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

I’m not going to argue back and forth on something like this, but I will leave you with this: you’re spitting into a volcano and calling yourself a fireman. The breadth and depth of the evidence against you is staggeringly real, and in response you are hanging on minutiae like a vague sentence spoken at a rushed press conference and intended only to set up the old line about “you’re never prepared for something like this.”[/quote]

What evidence? Point out where there has been any credible evidence that says Adam Lanza actually walked into that school and shot those people. Pictures? Video? Eyewitnesses? A Chief Medical Examiner who can actually say what caliber the entry wounds were?

You have not been paying attention.

Your eagerness to believe, despite a complete lack of evidence, is what is disturbing.

Your trust of a government that has admitted to a plan of brainwashing people into giving up their means of defense is clear evidence of ignorance and a sociopathic nature.

Documented and proven.

Documented and proven

Again, what evidence? We have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed, and that’s it.

Lacking in compassion? For who? The millions of families who are going to be stripped of their ability to defend themselves as a result of this?

I am compassionate. I am also a realist. I do not believe for one second that the proposed bans that are a direct result of this event will stop any crimes.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

You have not been paying attention.

[/quote]

Explain this.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

You have not been paying attention.

[/quote]

Explain this.[/quote]
No.

Read back through my posts and figure it out for yourself.