Gun Control II

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
334

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I hate these people:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/feinstein-gun-control-bill-exempt-government-officials_697732.html

Feinstein Gun Control Bill to Exempt Government Officials

Not everyone will have to abide by Senator Dianne Feinstein’s gun control bill. If the proposed legislation becomes law, government officials and others will be exemp[/quote]

Why does she have so much power?
Why is she so successful in politics? ( I understand she is a major player )

Is there anything else she has contributed greatly that made her rise to the top and be so bullish?

Is she popular? Where and why?

I am baffled as to how someone who is so anti-gun rises to the top in America.
She says things that are so obviously out of touch with reality.

My understanding was that extreme liberals were a minority.

Is America essentially losing its national identity and happy to dissociate itself from their roots?

And what is the antidote for this loss of identity?

335

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I hate these people:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/feinstein-gun-control-bill-exempt-government-officials_697732.html

Feinstein Gun Control Bill to Exempt Government Officials

Not everyone will have to abide by Senator Dianne Feinstein’s gun control bill. If the proposed legislation becomes law, government officials and others will be exemp[/quote]

Why does she have so much power?
Why is she so successful in politics? ( I understand she is a major player )

Is there anything else she has contributed greatly that made her rise to the top and be so bullish?

Is she popular? Where and why?

I am baffled as to how someone who is so anti-gun rises to the top in America.
She says things that are so obviously out of touch with reality.

My understanding was that extreme liberals were a minority.

Is America essentially losing its national identity and happy to dissociate itself from their roots?

And what is the antidote for this loss of identity?[/quote]

You are from England right?
This is a blatant characterization and unfair as hell. But Murica is big. Lots of states are bigger than your country. Think about the diversity you’ll see even in your own country and extrapolate that on a grand scale. You get many different thoughts depending on the region. As well figure that something like 54 percent of the actual population is on the east coast which are by and large huge urban areas which are going to have concerns much different from places like Iowa and Colorado and be regionally a lot different from either.

Full disclosure years ago I dated an Englishwoman and I thought it was precious how when we were going on what I thought of as a short few hundred mile drive she’d gear up like we are going on a safari in some untamed wilderness so thats where I get some of my thinking that people from smaller countries don’t really understand the size and diversity we have in America.

336

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I hate these people:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/feinstein-gun-control-bill-exempt-government-officials_697732.html

Feinstein Gun Control Bill to Exempt Government Officials

Not everyone will have to abide by Senator Dianne Feinstein’s gun control bill. If the proposed legislation becomes law, government officials and others will be exemp[/quote]

Why does she have so much power?
Why is she so successful in politics? ( I understand she is a major player )

Is there anything else she has contributed greatly that made her rise to the top and be so bullish?

Is she popular? Where and why?

I am baffled as to how someone who is so anti-gun rises to the top in America.
She says things that are so obviously out of touch with reality.

My understanding was that extreme liberals were a minority.

Is America essentially losing its national identity and happy to dissociate itself from their roots?

And what is the antidote for this loss of identity?[/quote]

You are from England right?
This is a blatant characterization and unfair as hell. But Murica is big. Lots of states are bigger than your country. Think about the diversity you’ll see even in your own country and extrapolate that on a grand scale. You get many different thoughts depending on the region. As well figure that something like 54 percent of the actual population is on the east coast which are by and large huge urban areas which are going to have concerns much different from places like Iowa and Colorado and be regionally a lot different from either.

Full disclosure years ago I dated an Englishwoman and I thought it was precious how when we were going on what I thought of as a short few hundred mile drive she’d gear up like we are going on a safari in some untamed wilderness so thats where I get some of my thinking that people from smaller countries don’t really understand the size and diversity we have in America.
[/quote]

I think Alpha actually lives in America now, if I’m not mistaken.

337

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
and assuming you, as a liberal are a physical coward like most liberals
[/quote]

Wanna take this outside?[/quote]

Actions have consequences.

I guess voting for people that conspire theories that gun control is the solution to mass killings makes such persons lose credibility.

It is just the way the world works.

[/quote]

Huh? I was joking about internet toughness.[/quote]

I misunderstood you completely.
Did not realize you were joking - I’m used to you being ultra serious.
[/quote]

lol, I’ve been accused of that from time to time. I can let my hair down too!

338

[quote]groo wrote:

Full disclosure years ago I dated an Englishwoman and I thought it was precious how when we were going on what I thought of as a short few hundred mile drive she’d gear up like we are going on a safari in some untamed wilderness
[/quote]

Lol

339

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I hate these people:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/feinstein-gun-control-bill-exempt-government-officials_697732.html

Feinstein Gun Control Bill to Exempt Government Officials

Not everyone will have to abide by Senator Dianne Feinstein’s gun control bill. If the proposed legislation becomes law, government officials and others will be exemp[/quote]

Why does she have so much power?
Why is she so successful in politics? ( I understand she is a major player )

Is there anything else she has contributed greatly that made her rise to the top and be so bullish?

Is she popular? Where and why?

I am baffled as to how someone who is so anti-gun rises to the top in America.
She says things that are so obviously out of touch with reality.

My understanding was that extreme liberals were a minority.

Is America essentially losing its national identity and happy to dissociate itself from their roots?

And what is the antidote for this loss of identity?[/quote]

You are from England right?
This is a blatant characterization and unfair as hell. But Murica is big. Lots of states are bigger than your country. Think about the diversity you’ll see even in your own country and extrapolate that on a grand scale. You get many different thoughts depending on the region. As well figure that something like 54 percent of the actual population is on the east coast which are by and large huge urban areas which are going to have concerns much different from places like Iowa and Colorado and be regionally a lot different from either.

Full disclosure years ago I dated an Englishwoman and I thought it was precious how when we were going on what I thought of as a short few hundred mile drive she’d gear up like we are going on a safari in some untamed wilderness so thats where I get some of my thinking that people from smaller countries don’t really understand the size and diversity we have in America.
[/quote]

I think Alpha actually lives in America now, if I’m not mistaken. [/quote]

It would still apply though. It takes a long time to really see how different America is. I’ve lived East Coast, Midwest and Mountain West and those areas alone are very very different.

Our politics are a bit of special blend of hypocrisy as well that I am sure has a special homegrown flair. Just like I find it fascinating when whichever house of parliament has its members get up and play the dozens with each other, but I don’t think I really get it exactly.

340

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I think Alpha actually lives in America now, if I’m not mistaken. [/quote]

Yes. I waited two years of being immersed in the culture before opening my mouth.

I gather California has a lot of illegal and legal immigrants - so they are not American they are Mexican.

Then you get the feminists and the gays and the lesbians that I understand are also primarily liberal voters, is that right?

So I suspect they, too, like the Hispanics, vote not necessarily with America’s best interest at heart but with their personal identity and agendas at heart - my hunch.

Then you have democrats who are middle of the road " I’m not against the Second" but they vote democrat anyway even though the party puts out their most extreme liberal candidates that do not represent their voice.
And so again because the mild democrats are identified first with being a political party “I am a democrat” and second with being American - therefore they can overlook America’s best interest in the name of their personal political identity.

I don’t know enough about the black Americans to make a fair comment but so far I perceive and dislike liberals using them as pets - which psychologically gives the impression that a being is like a family member and loved but still inferior ( a valued and important member of the family but not as valuable as the real children ) - that will not heal the slavery wound of the past and can only backfire in the long run.

So is Sen. Frankenstein really popular and a true representative of the majority or is it all smoke and mirrors?

341

[quote]smh23 wrote:

I can let my hair down too![/quote]

That would be nice!
Adding a touch of levity from time to time is always refreshing.

342

[quote]groo wrote:
Just like I find it fascinating when whichever house of parliament has its members get up and play the dozens with each other, but I don’t think I really get it exactly.
[/quote]

They are a lot more vicious with one another.

Candidates here are not really asked questions that would truly challenge them or even show them up.

Is there a rule or a reason why the tough questions are not asked?

343

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I think Alpha actually lives in America now, if I’m not mistaken. [/quote]

Yes. I waited two years of being immersed in the culture before opening my mouth.

I gather California has a lot of illegal and legal immigrants - so they are not American they are Mexican.

Then you get the feminists and the gays and the lesbians that I understand are also primarily liberal voters, is that right?

So I suspect they, too, like the Hispanics, vote not necessarily with America’s best interest at heart but with their personal identity and agendas at heart - my hunch.

Then you have democrats who are middle of the road " I’m not against the Second" but they vote democrat anyway even though the party puts out their most extreme liberal candidates that do not represent their voice.
And so again because the mild democrats are identified first with being a political party “I am a democrat” and second with being American - therefore they can overlook America’s best interest in the name of their personal political identity.

I don’t know enough about the black Americans to make a fair comment but so far I perceive and dislike liberals using them as pets - which psychologically gives the impression that a being is like a family member and loved but still inferior ( a valued and important member of the family but not as valuable as the real children ) - that will not heal the slavery wound of the past and can only backfire in the long run.

So is Sen. Frankenstein really popular and a true representative of the majority or is it all smoke and mirrors?

[/quote]

The crux of the matter is this. You will find no universal agreement on what America’s best interest is. Both liberals and conservatives that aren’t politicians at least believe they have America’s best interests at heart. And amazingly those best interests coincide with their own personal world view. Obviously you think conservatives have America’s best interests at heart or Republicans and they think so to, however it doesn’t make it so.

Career politicians of both stripes have self interest at heart…and realistically speaking if someone is some sort of Rand fan or free market capitalist this is the way they should be. Why should they hold their personal goals secondary to something that helps society but hurts them personally as these things aren’t always the same. This is what I see as an inherent problem in this school of thought as it ultimately boils down to rational self interest being having societal rules that benefits that person the most. Most politicians of either stripe do nothing that doesn’t gain for them personally. And largely speaking using a rational self interest model people should vote for politicians that do things that benefit them the most personally.

To be honest your post comes off insultingly racist to minorities to me.

344

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I think Alpha actually lives in America now, if I’m not mistaken. [/quote]

Yes. I waited two years of being immersed in the culture before opening my mouth.

I gather California has a lot of illegal and legal immigrants - so they are not American they are Mexican.

Then you get the feminists and the gays and the lesbians that I understand are also primarily liberal voters, is that right?

So I suspect they, too, like the Hispanics, vote not necessarily with America’s best interest at heart but with their personal identity and agendas at heart - my hunch.

Then you have democrats who are middle of the road " I’m not against the Second" but they vote democrat anyway even though the party puts out their most extreme liberal candidates that do not represent their voice.
And so again because the mild democrats are identified first with being a political party “I am a democrat” and second with being American - therefore they can overlook America’s best interest in the name of their personal political identity.

I don’t know enough about the black Americans to make a fair comment but so far I perceive and dislike liberals using them as pets - which psychologically gives the impression that a being is like a family member and loved but still inferior ( a valued and important member of the family but not as valuable as the real children ) - that will not heal the slavery wound of the past and can only backfire in the long run.

So is Sen. Frankenstein really popular and a true representative of the majority or is it all smoke and mirrors?

[/quote]

I’ve never even heard of Se. Frankenstein until this bill came out.

As an aside, I would caution you to not dismiss how radical the far right can be as well. Your post, most of which I tend to agree with, is nice, but the right (far right in my mind) has issues as well.

Me personally, I tend to be conservative, but I feel many so called conservatives are really only concerned about themselves and not what’s best for the country as a whole. There is something to the “good ol boy” mantra, but it only fits a small and hopefully diminishing percentage.

345

Simpson-Bowles is all the evidence anybody needs that A) serious-minded and intelligent statesmen/women are more alike than different, regardless of their “label” as either liberal or conservative, and B) the sensible course of action is rarely popular, especially among the partisan hacks.

346

^smh23’s “two Pauls” test: if both Paul Ryan and Paul Krugman are opposed to something, chances are great that it’s exactly what needs to be done.

347

I am learning very fast.

I am also noticing that using free speech to express one’s mind freely gets a person to be judged and labeled immediately.

This is very predictable.

Also there is a difference between being concerned for yourself in not wanting your rights taken away versus being concerned for yourself in wanting the government to take things from people to give to you - and to take away rights from other people because you consider your agenda superior.

Not all self interest is equal.

We all have equity.

348

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
I am learning very fast.

I am also noticing that using free speech to express one’s mind freely gets a person to be judged and labeled immediately.

This is very predictable.

Also there is a difference between being concerned for yourself in not wanting your rights taken away versus being concerned for yourself in wanting the government to take things from people to give to you - and to take away rights from other people because you consider your agenda superior.

Not all self interest is equal.

We all have equity.

[/quote]

Speech is free, but not free from consequence.

349

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
I am learning very fast.

I am also noticing that using free speech to express one’s mind freely gets a person to be judged and labeled immediately.

This is very predictable.

Also there is a difference between being concerned for yourself in not wanting your rights taken away versus being concerned for yourself in wanting the government to take things from people to give to you - and to take away rights from other people because you consider your agenda superior.

Not all self interest is equal.

We all have equity.

[/quote]

I’ll go in order since some of this likely is a response to me.
Of course expressing what one thinks gets judged as it should. Being able to say largely whatever you like doesn’t mean you are in a judgment free zone. Predictable and as it should be. After all opinions are like assholes we all have them and most of them stink.

I would only agree with the rest of the post in that certainly all self interest is not created equal the self interest that benefits me and mine is more valuable than that which benefits you if you subscribe to that ethics. We take rights away from people all the time that don’t subscribe to our agenda.

This is why I say your post is racist.

You set up both Hispanics and Blacks as monolithic voting blocks in which one clearly votes against what you see to be America’s best interest in favor of their own personal interest as well as one being the pets of another block of voters that vote against America’s best interest in your opinion. In opposition to the other group of voters which I can only take to be conservative whites which you believe have votes that equal to America’s best interests.

So it for one insults both blacks and Hispanics by saying in both cases they vote against America’s best interests and in the case of blacks says you think liberals treat them as some kind of pet.

Also it sets up a dichotomy where these minorities which you separate by race defacto don’t know or don’t care about America’s best interest.

350

[quote]smh23 wrote:
^smh23’s “two Pauls” test: if both Paul Ryan and Paul Krugman are opposed to something, chances are great that it’s exactly what needs to be done.[/quote]

haha. This made me laugh pretty hard.

As for all the talk of banning guns:

Banning drugs sure has stopped people from getting high, so I guess banning guns is the best idea ever.

Pro-Choice politicians banning guns under the “save the kids” bannor is hilarious as well.

351

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
^smh23’s “two Pauls” test: if both Paul Ryan and Paul Krugman are opposed to something, chances are great that it’s exactly what needs to be done.[/quote]

haha. This made me laugh pretty hard.

As for all the talk of banning guns:

Banning drugs sure has stopped people from getting high, so I guess banning guns is the best idea ever.

Pro-Choice politicians banning guns under the “save the kids” bannor is hilarious as well.[/quote]

I think the conspiracy guys would be better served by thinking that highly divisive politics like this that in my opinion won’t go anywhere take a lot of focus off of issues like the economy and focus it in largely fruitless debates. I can’t see Congress pushing any new gun legislation through but I’ve been fooled before.

352

[quote]groo wrote:
I can’t see Congress pushing any new gun legislation through but I’ve been fooled before.
[/quote]

Neither do I to be honest. Thsi lady’s bill will die quickly, however, Bam has OFA up and running pretty hard, so the “small things” distraction team you are talking about is going to push on strong.

Only 1440 more days until some other jackwagon will be president and lie and cheat and steal, all the while flashing pretty little trinkets in our face to distract us.

353

Fein-bag is safe in her district, she can do whatever she wants because she knows she cannot be voted out.