[quote]JayPierce wrote:
As far as whether or not it was planned and carried out by our government? Eh. I know the second plane didn’t look like an airliner. I know that WTC7 wasn’t hit, but collapsed anyway. I’m also sure that it was not a plane that hit the pentagon.
[/quote]
Best you got?
HeeHeeHeeHeeHee.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
HeeHeeHeeHeeHee.[/quote]
That’s funny to you, is it?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
As far as whether or not it was planned and carried out by our government? Eh. I know the second plane didn’t look like an airliner. I know that WTC7 wasn’t hit, but collapsed anyway. I’m also sure that it was not a plane that hit the pentagon.
[/quote]
I just wanted to comment on this one, because I live 20 minutes from New York and can see the skyline from any hill by my house: go fuck yourself.
You fucking idiots from the rest of the country that didn’t watch that city smoke and burn first hand are always the same morons that believe some chopped-and-screwed youtube video about why it was so CLEARLY the government that perpetrated 9/11.
By your witless, pathetic pussy ramblings, you and your faggot ilk insult every fireman and cop I know that pulled the bodies from the rubble that day, and all of us who had friends and relatives and loved ones in those towers (which I did.)
I can only hope one day your fucking plane crashes so some retarded monkey can think the government did it to you, too.
If you were in front of me, I would berate you about this until you left the room or tried to hit me. I’ve done it before, and I wish I could do it to you.
Cocksucker. [/quote]
Stop responding to quotes taken out of context. I did not say the government did it. I never have. I have the utmost respect for those who were there. Those are the truest representation of the American spirit.
That has nothing to do with the question of who perpetrated those deaths or the evidence contrary to the official story. Why are you so hyper-emotional?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
HeeHeeHeeHeeHee.[/quote]
That’s funny to you, is it?[/quote]
The fact that the only response you can come up with is a gif of a cartoon character?
Yep.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
The fact that the only response you can come up with is a gif of a cartoon character?
Yep.[/quote]
That’s odd - because I didn’t respond to you with a gif of a cartoon character.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
So when people suggest that the government would do something like this, it offends the living shit out of me…[/quote]
You don’t think it offends me?
Do you think for one second that I am OK with the idea that governments throughout history have done things like this to incite and justify war?
Do you think it’s OK that we have been fighting wars on foreign soil for almost ten years, when we didn’t even have enough evidence to put the most heinous crime the U.S. has ever seen next to the guy’s name on a wanted poster?
Why the hell would you get all emotional, to the point of getting in people’s faces itching for a fight, when someone simply suggests that something is off-kilter about the official story?
[quote]
You don’t think it offends me?
Do you think for one second that I am OK with the idea that governments throughout history have done things like this to incite and justify war?
Do you think it’s OK that we have been fighting wars on foreign soil for almost ten years, when we didn’t even have enough evidence to put the most heinous crime the U.S. has ever seen next to the guy’s name on a wanted poster?[/quote]
For the record, “you” have been fighting dozens of war on foreign soil since 1945.
“You” never had to do much, if anything, to “incite and justify” them.
My own country is currently at war in Mali.
What do you think they did to “justify it” in the public’s eyes ?
Litteraly nothing.
They just started it.
Most people don’t know why we are there.
And they don’t care.
Even among my malian students…
Next week they will have forgotten we are there.
You don’t need to manipulate people. Apathy is so widespread they won’t move anyway.
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
Also, it appeared to me that you haven’t seriously looked into it and that your entire post was a speculation-criticism designed to say that it wasn’t worth looking into
Did I misunderstand? Set me straight please[/quote]
If you can find something wrong with the substance of my criticism, show me and I will respond.[/quote]
I did. I pointed out that your criticism had no real substance
You said that a conspiracy would necessarily entail: and then you made a ridiculous listing
I said that your listing was ridiculous and that a conspiracy need not be as on its face ridiculous as you were positing. I then conjured up my own alternate theory (zero evidence of course, BUT) without any of the so called ‘required’ ingredients that you had listed. It was extremely easy… I just couldn’t let it slide, being the whack job that I am
People have a strange tendency to cram conspiracy theories into a weird little box that they can easily set aside. The setting aside doesn’t bother me none, but the weird little boxes do[/quote]
No you didn’t. You babbled something about brainwashing. This is real life, not a Brosnan-era Bond movie.
[quote]kamui wrote:
[quote]
You don’t think it offends me?
Do you think for one second that I am OK with the idea that governments throughout history have done things like this to incite and justify war?
Do you think it’s OK that we have been fighting wars on foreign soil for almost ten years, when we didn’t even have enough evidence to put the most heinous crime the U.S. has ever seen next to the guy’s name on a wanted poster?[/quote]
For the record, “you” have been fighting dozens of war on foreign soil since 1945.
“You” never had to do much, if anything, to “incite and justify” them.
My own country is currently at war in Mali.
What do you think they did to “justify it” in the public’s eyes ?
Litteraly nothing.
They just started it.
Most people don’t know why we are there.
And they don’t care.
Even among my malian students…
Next week they will have forgotten we are there.
You don’t need to manipulate people. Apathy is so widespread they won’t move anyway.[/quote]
Bingo.
The people that are so up in arms about the government taking control don’t realize they already have. By and large members of a class of people that largely could give a shit about most people operate the government and they have convinced the vast majority of people that policies that clearly are contrary to their interests are in fact good for them. Its amazing that the same group can convince people that being an intellectual is bad and learning things other than for direct economic gain is a waste and also convince these people that they can move upward through pure effort into the higher group. Give us our fights in the coliseum and we are good.
As to the conspiracy thing, why is it always big things that would be so difficult to manipulate that gain the most traction. It would be near impossible to carry off a hoax like a mass shooting in this day and age not because of the government being moral just because of it not being capable. However easily I could see…though not agree…that a government operative killed the reddit guy to keep it from a public trial and to serve warning to other people that have the skill to free information. One involves hundreds if not thousands of people and the other could involve a handful. But a grand conspiracy is more interesting. It gives spice to life…which for many people is grinding away at a job they hate with a spouse they despise and kids that are ungrateful at best. Then you die. No conspiracy. Fin.
That isn’t a fun narrative and its more interesting to think there is a secret world and you are doing your best to fight back.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Jay,
Still waiting for an answer to my question:
[quote]Not trusting a politician is a far cry from accusing one of them of a mass scale murder with hundreds of accomplices.
now get busy and point out a handful of…two or three… examples in American history where the government turned on it’s own people perpetrated an enormous hoax and killed hundreds of innocent civilians.[/quote]
Since “the crime of the century” is so easy to pull off one would think that it must have taken place before. And since these things have happened before one or two perpetrators must have been caught. Now give me some previous episodes where such a thing has proven to have taken place…should be easy for you.
Since anyone can claim anything without a shred of real evidence one would think that [/quote]
Um… you haven’t been paying attention, either, have you?
Heard of Fast and Furious?
The Tuskeegee Experiment?[/quote]
You apparently didn’t pay attention to my question did you? Fast and furious was a failed drug operation. It was not launched to kill mass numbers of civilians. You cannot compare a bungled operation like that to what you are suggesting some sort of mass conspiracy.[/quote]
It was not a failed drug operation. It was a failed attempt to use cartel killings to encourage gun control laws, by the same man who said explicitly that the govt was going to brainwash people into thinking guns are bad.
That was a govt-cooked hoax that led to the loss of innocent lies.[/quote]
That still does not answer my original question:
Give me a couple of examples where the government has conspired to kill a number of innocent civilians.
You can’t do that because it has never occurred in the history of the country. Oh you’ll try to ascribe similar circumstances but it has never really taken place. Just as it has not taken place now. You are living in a dream world Jay…and it’s just a bit scary to the rest of us who are living in reality.
Stop with the nutty conspiracy theories Jay. You know what they say about conspiracy theorists don’t you?
1-Young
2-Uneducated
3-Gullible
And sometimes the people who begin such stories are sometimes attempting to make money from these fanciful stories.
See now if I were going to get a good conspiracy theory going I’d start with something like this:
http://news.yahoo.com/coast-guardsman-reappears-3-months-225732372.html
I’d have to think a bit how to connect it to the NWO and getting guns but I could do it. It has a lot of good parts and is mysterious.
Perhaps he saw Bin Laden still alive…or aliens?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I am a Democrat. I hated those wars. But if you’re going to start with the “9/11 was a conspiracy” bullshit, on any level, you’re fucking right I would get in your face. Or at least try to make you feel as stupid as you actually are for believing such nonsense, to the point where it would no longer be comfortable for you to be around me, because I don’t respect morons and I don’t treat them like people.[/quote]
Do you believe that GDubya made up the story about Hussein having WMD’s to justify the Iraq war?
Not to lump you in with the rest of the Dems, but that seems to be the common consensus.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I am a Democrat. I hated those wars. But if you’re going to start with the “9/11 was a conspiracy” bullshit, on any level, you’re fucking right I would get in your face. Or at least try to make you feel as stupid as you actually are for believing such nonsense, to the point where it would no longer be comfortable for you to be around me, because I don’t respect morons and I don’t treat them like people.[/quote]
Do you believe that GDubya made up the story about Hussein having WMD’s to justify the Iraq war?
Not to lump you in with the rest of the Dems, but that seems to be the common consensus.[/quote]
Not that he made it up, but that he was itching for a reason and used scant evidence.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I am a Democrat. I hated those wars. But if you’re going to start with the “9/11 was a conspiracy” bullshit, on any level, you’re fucking right I would get in your face. Or at least try to make you feel as stupid as you actually are for believing such nonsense, to the point where it would no longer be comfortable for you to be around me, because I don’t respect morons and I don’t treat them like people.[/quote]
Do you believe that GDubya made up the story about Hussein having WMD’s to justify the Iraq war?
Not to lump you in with the rest of the Dems, but that seems to be the common consensus.[/quote]
Not that he made it up, but that he was itching for a reason and used scant evidence.[/quote]
That is my perception of it. There was insufficient evidence for a rational man, but he was not that bright and irrational and wanted that war so badly that he used what he could to justify it.
And I’m not saying the government doesn’t lie - Gulf of Tonkin, etc., I get it. But what I’m saying is that to think that the government of the United States would kill thousands of its own citizens so it could invade… Afghanistan… is just irrational to a T.
[/quote]
Didn’t the democrats sign on to the war? Bush needed Congressional approval and no one voted against it.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I am a Democrat. I hated those wars. But if you’re going to start with the “9/11 was a conspiracy” bullshit, on any level, you’re fucking right I would get in your face. Or at least try to make you feel as stupid as you actually are for believing such nonsense, to the point where it would no longer be comfortable for you to be around me, because I don’t respect morons and I don’t treat them like people.[/quote]
Do you believe that GDubya made up the story about Hussein having WMD’s to justify the Iraq war?
Not to lump you in with the rest of the Dems, but that seems to be the common consensus.[/quote]
Not that he made it up, but that he was itching for a reason and used scant evidence.[/quote]
That is my perception of it. There was insufficient evidence for a rational man, but he was not that bright and irrational and wanted that war so badly that he used what he could to justify it.
And I’m not saying the government doesn’t lie - Gulf of Tonkin, etc., I get it. But what I’m saying is that to think that the government of the United States would kill thousands of its own citizens so it could invade… Afghanistan… is just irrational to a T.
[/quote]
Didn’t the democrats sign on to the war? Bush needed Congressional approval and no one voted against it.[/quote]
Good for them. I thought the war was bullshit from the first minute it was proposed, but I, unfortunately, do not yet have a vote in Congress.
The argument is often made that Congress was misled by the “evidence” that the Bush administration put forward, but not having been there I can’t say for sure, obviously.
Regardless, in hindsight America was duped into that war, as it was into Vietnam. But that is not what I’m looking to argue here in particular.[/quote]
You sure you are a Democrat and not leaning Libertarian?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Do you believe that GDubya made up the story about Hussein having WMD’s to justify the Iraq war?
Not to lump you in with the rest of the Dems, but that seems to be the common consensus.[/quote]
Not that he made it up, but that he was itching for a reason and used scant evidence.[/quote]
Well, my reasoning may be faulty here, but a man who has no more regard for human life than to march (somebody else) off to war under false pretenses is certainly capable of taking human lives to justify it. Both are possible actions of a pure homicidal psycho. To believe that someone is capable of one and not the other is somewhat delusional.
Again, though, I never said anybody in particular did it. A quick look, though, reveals plainly that the second plane was not an airliner. I watched it happen, and immediately thought “when did United start flying grey planes?” Another quick look shows that the hole in the Pentagon is much narrower than a 757. And then there’s tower 7.
I just simply call bullshit.
Am I the only one who caught that shooting yesterday at Lone Star College?
Huge hubbub, about a million LE vehicles, manhunt, school evac, massive media coverage, and then…
Nothing else said.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Am I the only one who caught that shooting yesterday at Lone Star College?
Huge hubbub, about a million LE vehicles, manhunt, school evac, massive media coverage, and then…
Nothing else said.[/quote]
2 gang members (with illegally obtained guns) had an altercation after class and they started shooting each other. Both shot each other and one innocent bystander. All 3 in hospital.