if claiming that god doesn’t exist is insane because “religious spiritual belief is the norm” then claiming there is only one God is equaly insane, for the same reason.
since polytheism and animism were and are still “the norm”.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…i’d say it’s a good indication of how screwed-up humanity is, actually…[/quote]
Of course you would. Welcome to Pub ‘Feeling Special,’ Zealotry and Dogmatic Fervor. Sit down for a spell, I’ll buy you a drink. [/quote]
…sorry, i don’t drink Kool-Aid…[/quote]
But you do! Humanity is a screwed-up sea of religious insanity. From which you, an island of reason and sanity, rise up and tower above the waters. You’re able to look down upon the likes of me and Tirib and tells us of the insansity we share with most of mankind.
[quote]kamui wrote:
if claiming that god doesn’t exist is insane because “religious spiritual belief is the norm” then claiming there is only one God is equaly insane, for the same reason.
since polytheism and animism were and are still “the norm”.
[/quote]
I didn’t bring up insanity. I made a joking reply to an atheist’s claim that religious/spiritual people are insane. Granted, I sort of read it as not being completely serious on his own part. More like a bit of nose tweaking. I don’t think sanity has anything to do with this. But, I am willing to fence when someone is willing and wanting.
fair enough
i was just pointing that the “norm = majority” argument is a poor one.
btw, as an atheist, i don’t think that religion is insanity.
i rather see it as spontaneous, collective and imperfect attempt to cure some underlying insanity.
actually, atheists who lack another cure, like art and/or philosophy, are often more insane than religous people.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…i’d say it’s a good indication of how screwed-up humanity is, actually…[/quote]
Of course you would. Welcome to Pub ‘Feeling Special,’ Zealotry and Dogmatic Fervor. Sit down for a spell, I’ll buy you a drink. [/quote]
…sorry, i don’t drink Kool-Aid…[/quote]
But you do! Humanity is a screwed-up sea of religious insanity. From which you, an island of reason and sanity, rise up and tower above the waters. You’re able to look down upon the likes of me and Tirib and tells us of the insansity we share with most of mankind.[/quote]
…it’s an excersice in futility, i know. You should read “The country of the blind”, by H.G. Wells. A one-eyed man isn’t necessarily king in the land of the blind…
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
If you want to make claims about parthenogenesis among humans, then you have stepped directly into the realm of science. The idea that the two can be separated is ludicrous at best.[/quote]
Now you’re dealing with specific physical claims. And that’s as far as science goes. For instance, science can refute a 6000 year old earth, but it says nothing on how Genesis is to be read and understood in the first place. A literal creation account, or a revalation about God, using a familiar cosmology known during the time? It refutes a 6000 year old earth, that’s it. [/quote]
I do hope you didn’t see the word Genesis and assume I was talking about the creation of the world.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
If you want to make claims about parthenogenesis among humans, then you have stepped directly into the realm of science. The idea that the two can be separated is ludicrous at best.[/quote]
Now you’re dealing with specific physical claims. And that’s as far as science goes. For instance, science can refute a 6000 year old earth, but it says nothing on how Genesis is to be read and understood in the first place. A literal creation account, or a revalation about God, using a familiar cosmology known during the time? It refutes a 6000 year old earth, that’s it. [/quote]
I do hope you didn’t see the word Genesis and assume I was talking about the creation of the world.[/quote]
Mak, now I’m insulted. It’s my own example (“For instance…”), using a common enough topic of the forum.
Makavali,
You’ve actually become what you so despise. An overly zealous empty air thumping atheist. You’re no different in style from a street corner Preacher spouting Bible verses to passers by. Your posts are so filled with vitriol that you’ve chase people from your cause who may otherwise not have given Christianity a second thought. My only wish is that you had a larger audience. You’d do more for Christianity than Billy Graham.
Keep it up and even crank up the hate if that’s possible - LOL!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Makavali,
You’ve actually become what you so despise. An overly zealous empty air thumping atheist. You’re no different in style from a street corner Preacher spouting Bible verses to passers by. Your posts are so filled with vitriol that you’ve chase people from your cause who may otherwise not have given Christianity a second thought. My only wish is that you had a larger audience. You’d do more for Christianity than Billy Graham.
Keep it up and even crank up the hate if that’s possible - LOL![/quote]
He is strangely attracted the the religious threads.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…basically: “I’m not crazy!”, says the crazy person. And the crazy person is you T, but i like you anyway…[/quote]
Crazy suggests abnormal. Not the norm. But, worldwide, religious-spiritual belief is the norm. Show a little gratitude that we haven’t had you committed.[/quote]
Insanity by majority. If 99% of the world believed the earth was flat, 99% of the world is still wrong.[/quote]
Hence the same problem exists when you elevate science to a religious status.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Makavali,
You’ve actually become what you so despise. An overly zealous empty air thumping atheist. You’re no different in style from a street corner Preacher spouting Bible verses to passers by. Your posts are so filled with vitriol that you’ve chase people from your cause who may otherwise not have given Christianity a second thought. My only wish is that you had a larger audience. You’d do more for Christianity than Billy Graham.
Keep it up and even crank up the hate if that’s possible - LOL![/quote]
If you want to believe that, fine? People can listen if they want, otherwise skip past my posts. I don’t “promote” atheism, I point out the mental gymnastics your detachment from reality takes.
[quote]kamui wrote:
if claiming that god doesn’t exist is insane because “religious spiritual belief is the norm” then claiming there is only one God is equaly insane, for the same reason.
since polytheism and animism were and are still “the norm”.
[/quote]
It’s called argumentum ad populum. That means because an idea is popular the fact of that argument is true. This is a logical fallacy.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Makavali,
You’ve actually become what you so despise. An overly zealous empty air thumping atheist. You’re no different in style from a street corner Preacher spouting Bible verses to passers by. Your posts are so filled with vitriol that you’ve chase people from your cause who may otherwise not have given Christianity a second thought. My only wish is that you had a larger audience. You’d do more for Christianity than Billy Graham.
Keep it up and even crank up the hate if that’s possible - LOL![/quote]
If you want to believe that, fine? People can listen if they want, otherwise skip past my posts. I don’t “promote” atheism, I point out the mental gymnastics your detachment from reality takes.[/quote]
I have seen you perform mental gymnastics to twist reality too, you are not innocent of this.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Makavali,
You’ve actually become what you so despise. An overly zealous empty air thumping atheist. You’re no different in style from a street corner Preacher spouting Bible verses to passers by. Your posts are so filled with vitriol that you’ve chase people from your cause who may otherwise not have given Christianity a second thought. My only wish is that you had a larger audience. You’d do more for Christianity than Billy Graham.
Keep it up and even crank up the hate if that’s possible - LOL![/quote]
If you want to believe that, fine? People can listen if they want, otherwise skip past my posts. I don’t “promote” atheism, I point out the mental gymnastics your detachment from reality takes.[/quote]
No, that’s what you think you’re doing. But it is NOT how you come across. You appear to be seething with hate and won’t rest until the last Christian is exterminated along with our belief.
The reality of the matter is separate from how it is perceived. That’s where you fail big time - perception my man, perception. As I said you won’t be winning any converts the way you’re going, in fact quite the opposite.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Makavali,
You’ve actually become what you so despise. An overly zealous empty air thumping atheist. You’re no different in style from a street corner Preacher spouting Bible verses to passers by. Your posts are so filled with vitriol that you’ve chase people from your cause who may otherwise not have given Christianity a second thought. My only wish is that you had a larger audience. You’d do more for Christianity than Billy Graham.
Keep it up and even crank up the hate if that’s possible - LOL![/quote]
If you want to believe that, fine? People can listen if they want, otherwise skip past my posts. I don’t “promote” atheism, I point out the mental gymnastics your detachment from reality takes.[/quote]
No, that’s what you think you’re doing. But it is NOT how you come across. You appear to be seething with hate and won’t rest until the last Christian is exterminated along with our belief.
The reality of the matter is separate from how it is perceived. That’s where you fail big time - perception my man, perception. As I said you won’t be winning any converts the way you’re going, in fact quite the opposite.
[/quote]
Christianity or any man made religion isn’t going to disappear in my lifetime, I have no delusions otherwise. I’m fairly confident that it will disappear though.
Also, I don’t seek converts, I can’t change peoples minds and I don’t want to. Look at the evidence from an unbiased standpoint and decide for yourself. I don’t “hate” you as an individual, I have no reason to. What I am critical of is your way of thinking, which is part of the collective problem that will invariably provoke another major war.
Honestly though, you need to take a chill pill before you give yourself a heart attack old man.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Christianity or any man made religion isn’t going to disappear in my lifetime, I have no delusions otherwise. I’m fairly confident that it will disappear though.[/quote]
The Christian Bible speaks volumes on the end times. There will be more people like you who are against Christianity and Christians will once again be persecuted for their faith. But, we will not disappear that’s not how it all ends.
I see, so you’re just on a mission of hate, plain and simple when you deride Christians on this site. You know you won’t change minds so it must be personal gratification that drives you to degrade Christians. That seething hate I talked about earlier.
Look at all of those people who died at the hands of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the many other non-Christians. I think you’re confusing humanity with Christianity. Bad people are bad people, right?
There are reasons I didn’t post this publicly until now. Two Saturdays ago I was out for my morning prayer and worship walk and realized that I hadn’t prayed specifically for a car. It was always for the situation in general. Through a confluence of events I found myself with a low paying, but full time job and no car. My mortgage was three months in default and on the verge heading into foreclosure. I had mountains of other bills as well and a few hundred bucks to my name.
That Saturday morning I told God I really needed a car or, at least as it appeared to me, there would be no hope of avoiding total financial collapse. I told Him I would give Him all the glory if He would rescue us out of this situation any way he saw fit, but that I was prepared to praise His holy name it if be His will that all be lost. I told Him that this whole situation was entirely beyond my ability to escape from without His gracious help.
By 6 o’clock that evening one of my Christian customers had paid my 2800 dollars of back mortgage and my sister, that has called me exactly one time in the last seven years, to tell me our mother was dead in April, called to tell me that she was giving me my mother’s car that was left to her by my step father, her father, who also died in June. I said nothing to initiate this with either one of them. My mortgage is now current and I have an immaculately maintained showroom condition 02 Focus with 58,000 original miles in my driveway. A car a hundred times better than any I would have been able to afford and the money I had scraped together was used to insure and register it. I also had a major blitz in my business where I made enough money to get the other bills at least out of immediate danger.
To Him be all the glory. I did nothing but ask.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
I don’t “hate” you as an individual, I have no reason to. What I am critical of is your way of thinking, which is part of the collective problem that will invariably provoke another major war.
[/quote]
“Those (religious) people sure are stupid for believing in (x-entitiy/bird/spaghetti monster).”
is just as intolerant and collectivist a statement as
“My gawd can beat up your gawd.”
To the extent that “major wars” are provoked by intolerant extremists, I see no reason why one viewpoint is any more likely to result in World Peace than the other.
Religion isn’t going away. As long as people continue to die, we will always search for a higher truth or purpose. Ultimately, this search should be a deeply personal journey of self-discovery, but throughout the centuries people of like minds have grouped together in their search. People will always divide themselves thus because there is safety in numbers.
As long as we continue to judge one another based upon our affiliations with any particular group, instead of judging each individual based upon the merits of his or her character and actions, we will perpetuate the us vs. them mentality that has resulted in every war ever. Us vs. Them might be “black vs. white” or “Muslim vs. Christian” or even “Rational vs. Emotional”. The end result is the same.
[quote]MrRezister wrote:
“Those (religious) people sure are stupid for believing in (x-entitiy/bird/spaghetti monster).”[/quote]
Stupid? Not necessarily. Being stupid isn’t a prerequisite for being religious. Admittedly, many religious people are inbred rednecks, but that comes down to raw numbers more than anything. No, not stupid. Dangerous would be the word I’d use. Claiming knowledge for something you actually have no knowledge of is what the problem is. The same goes for the die hard “THERE IS NO GOD AND I KNOW THIS WITHOUT A DOUBT” types.
If Christians were to truly live by the Bible then racism shouldn’t be a problem. The Apostle Paul made it clear that there were no Jews or Gentiles only believers in Christ. As long as races of people appear to be differently colored then some form of racism will always exist. I can’t look at my black friends and not see the physical difference in myself and them. However, I treat them the same way I would anybody else. My wife is Hispanic, but I don’t treat her differently than if I married a white woman even though I can see we have different skin color.
In any religion there is going to be some level of intolerance and prejudice by its followers. There are Muslims that believe Arab Muslims to be superior to non-Arab Muslims. I can’t speak for whether that’s what the Koran advocates, but I would guess not. There are Jews that belive that Israeli Jews are superior to non-Israeli Jews. The Bible states that the Jews were a people set aside, but it never calls them superior to anyone. If you’re a Christian, you can’t really state there is any group that should be more Christian. The earliest Christians were a collection of Jews, Greeks, Romans, and everything else.
I think, at least as a Christian, the idea shouldn’t be “Us vs. Them.” Christians are sitting on some gold mine of information or deep secret that isn’t meant to be known. We are called to share our faith. That doesn’t mean berate and belittle those with different points of view. It simply means share what we believe with others. Then it is up to that person and God as to what happens. If more Christians lived by that model, then less intolerance would be in the world.