[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Oarsman,
Well-stated. Great post.
And to dovetail on your thoughts - radicalism and revolution are not the products of a desperate, poor people.
Radicalism and revolution are the hobbies of spoiled, pampered, and affluent thinkers who don’t spend their life with dirt under the fingernails - and they, in turn, get drunk on radical theory and sell it to the poor and desperate as a packaged utopia that will end their earthly miseries, then only to get thousands, nay, millions slaughtered in search of ‘paradise’.
The poor and the desperate are the victims of revolutions, not the beneficiaries. But classroom radicals - comfortably insulated from the real world - continue to preach this gospel of the ‘poor’, when all they are offering is a suicide mission for the poor guys that actually buy into their garbage.[/quote]
Well, as far as the Che Guevara things, its all a matter of paradigms. You look at it through yours, and I look at it through mine.
When I look at him, I see an educated guy that saw what was going on in South America, and tried his damndest to change it. You might not like his personal views on how to treat his opponents, but in war, brutal things happen. Brutal people lead such endeavors. Nathan Bedford Forrest, William Sherman, George Patton. All guys that weren’t the nicest guys- but they got the job done. When they agree with how you think, then they are heroes. When you don’t, they are villains. Such is life. But I agree alot with many things in Guevara’s philosophies. Oarsmen, I don’t mean any offense, of course. But that is how I think. Its not hero worship…the guy did all he could to do what he thought was right. Whether others like it or not is irelevant. You all know how much I despise Bush; however, the only thing I like about him is that he does all he can to do what he thinks is right, and might even give his own life for it if he thought it would help (this is more credit than I’ve ever given that cocksucker, so appreciate it 
That in itself is something to be admired, no matter how skewed their view is. You think Guevara was skewed, I think Bush is. it is what it is.
Thunder, you’re right and you’re not. To lead a revolution, you have to be educated. You also have to have very strong charisma, and believe in your ideals. This isn’t run of the mill stuff for men- they’re a kind of Nietzschean ubermensch who transcend and get people to follow. The combination of timing, charisma, intelligence, and a self-sacrifice for “the cause” (whatever that might be) are something that…well maybe only God himself can pronounce. It is awfully ironic that in 1776, some of the greatest minds in the history of the world were just all living in the States…that’s what I call intelligent design.
I think you are making sweeping generalizations here about radicals. I’m what I guess you would call a radical…my hands haven’t been clean since I was legal to work. I’ve seen it all first hand with the working class… I live with them, work with’em, and am a member of it. Sure, there are a lot of college professors who just let ideas fly without really attempting to change things, or just spout out untruths to influence their students. But there’s alot of bullshit everywhere in life- theirs just sounds a little more educated.
Utopia won’t be achieved. We all realize that now (I hope). But there is no point to living life if you aren’t trying to change things for the better. Millions have died in wars fought completely for money and power, as most wars in the history of the world have been about. The suicide mission you speak of is how I look at the neoconservative phenomena today- they’ve managed to sell the fact that they really represent the working class, when in fact, they are the most destructive force to equality in the history of this country (my opinion, of course). So its all a matter of paradigms man.