[quote]JD430 wrote:
Remington 870
[/quote]
Where is HolyMac when you need him?
I fostered a Chow for a while. I think they’d make a pretty good home guardian. They’re extremely loyal to family and distrusting of strangers but not aggressive unless provoked. Also, they’re relatively lazy so they don’t need a lot of active exercise outside of daily walking. A lot of the dogs suggested here probably need a lot of activity. If your mom won’t be able to provide that when you’re gone, then you might need a lower energy dog.
I grew up with German Shepherds, and a big male Shepherd is intimidating as all hell. Some are quite gentle and unaggressiven though, as is the case with most dogs.
Probably the best dogs I’ve seen in terms of barking and protecting the house have been cattle dogs, like the Blue Heeler (or Australian Cattle Dog), and other working dogs like Kelpies and Border Collies. I’d probably favour the varieties of cattle dog over the Kelpies and Collies as they tend to be a bit stockier and more protective of the house.
In any event, they’re another option. I haven’t heard of cattle-dogs letting people come in without barking unless the dog’s deaf!
The Rottwieler my neighbour up the road have is very intimidating, and - behind a garden fence - prowls alongside the footpath when anyone or thing comes past the house. It has a vicious bark to! Also I have heard they have particularly strong jaws. Fuck all on hyenas and snapping turtles!
Human: 120 lbs
Rotweiler: 320 LBS (average)
Lions: 600 lbs
White sharks: 600 lbs
Hyenas: 1000 lbs
Snapping turtles: 1000 lbs
Crocodiles: 2500 lbs
National Geographicâ??s Dr. Brady Barrâ??s ‘Bite Pressure Tests’
[quote]ritzgooch23 wrote:
[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]
I have an American Pit too…and boy do I love him more then anything 
BUT…would I recommend the breed? Depends. I’ve had to be very stern with mine, and sometimes you really gotta show them who’s boss because they’re like shitty little kids lol. In the end though, they are sooo loving and loyal. They’re super smart too, but it all depends on your personality. I love the challenge, but it can be frustrating at times. Anyway, in my experience if you just want a protective dog that’s easy to train, get a german shepard! sorry for the rant, hope this helps.[/quote]
This is wrong. Pitbulls are one of the worst breeds for protection work. The natural disposition of a pitbull is very trusting and submissive to humans, aggressive toward other animals. Of course, like anything, there is a bell curve applicable to temperment, mostly influenced by breeding and conditioning.
Next, canines are domesticated as we all know. That means there is generally a pretty deep inhibition for biting or attacking a human. Threats are one thing, actually taking and holding onto a good solid bite under duress and stress is a completely different thing. My point is, dogs need to be TRAINED to reliably protect and attack. With any dog that is trained to bite or attack, or any dog with a “natural” proclivity to do so, you have heightened liabilities that apply.
The reality is that most dogs are a visual or audible deterrent. Most burglars will avoid a home with ANY dog because of the potential for noise and to alert a homeowner or neighbor. However, someone who is determined to commit a crime against you is unlikely to be deterred by your dog. Dogs can be poisoned before hand (dogs can be poison proofed, but again, need to be trained) or they can simply be shot.
At the end of the day a dog that WILL bite is a big liability. An UNTRAINED dog that will bite is a HUGE LIABILITY. The point here is to be realistic about what a dog will do and won’t do and accept it for what it is - a deterrent, not a guarantee. We can wax on at length about what dogs make good “guardians”, but even those breeds require training to be reliable “guardians”, although some breeds make a much greater visual deterrence and are certainly outwardly more aggressive - which in most cases the appearance of aggression is enough to do the job.
There is a reason why a single menacing police dog can control a large crowd. It’s not that the K9 officer can subdue every individual in the crowd - it’s that no one wants to be the first to be bit. Just the threat of a bite is enough to deter most sane criminals. But like I said, a criminal committed to do you harm specifically is unlikely to be deterred by your dog.
I’m a dog person. And I would never own a dog that bites, but my perspective is different (I don’t feel I need the physical protection of a dog). I appreciate that my dogs that will not bite (they are hunting dogs) will certainly alert me to someone on the property (that is enough for me and, enough for the average person). An untrained dog that will bite is such a liability that he will likely be locked away or confined somewhere when you might need him most. Such a dog certainly cannot be trusted around strangers. A trained protection dog is a tricky proposition and such training can result in a loaded gun - another dog that needs to be locked away. Not every dog is cut out for the stress of such training. Many dogs wash out on the professional level. No harm no foul there. The professional merely does not use that dog…they don’t make it. However, when you have a pet owner attempting this training, there is no such thing as washing out. A pet owner is not going to part with his pet, so now you have an unstable dog trained to bite humans - a very bad combination. The dogs that successfully complete such training to the point where they are reliable are VERY solid dogs in terms of temperament and nerve. And these dogs are not easy to find in most breeds. Some breeds produce it higher than others, but unless you really do your homework, you are unlikely to come to own one. And even then, it’s a crap shoot.
Do yourself a favor. If you want a dog, you probably want a pet. So choose a breed that you like, and do your homework on the breed and its parents. Breeding is the most important factor in choosing a pet. Like usually produces like. Fantastic pups do not come from crappy parents with any reliability. Healthy pups do not usually come from unhealthy parents. Breeding and lineage is everything. Read up on how to choose a pup to improve your chance of getting a good one. And then, just accept that your dog will likely have a level of territoriality that will likely result in him barking at strangers - this is good. And accept the fact that unlike the romantic stories you read, your dog is unlikely to do anything heroic to save your life.
A dog that will bark is a start. Proper lighting, fences, keeping bushes trimmed, security systems, alarms, and 911 are far better security than your average dog. In the end, dogs that bite are too much responsibility for the average homeowner/pet owner. They are largely impracticable for the average homeowner/pet owner. And believe me, you don’t ever want to be responsible for anyone getting bit by your dog, especially some small child.
And don’t kid yourself about these romantic notions about what your dog will do. People will flood threads like this and regale you with heroic stories about their dogs and what they would do, or people are “sure” their dog would do this or protect them. THEY WILL NOT. Ask any protection trainer who works with dogs every day and he will tell you that most dogs will wash out of a serious program. And dogs engaged in such “sport protection” work are merely pets that are undergoing training…and like I said earlier, their reliability will be limited by their genetic potential, and that dog was chosen by a pet owner, not a professional - so your “mileage” with such a dog will vary tremendously. A pet dog that is not a good dog to start, is the last dog that should get bite training - yet they do at these sport protection clubs every day around the country.
At least with a gun, YOU control how that gun is stored and when it is fired. With an untrained dog that will bite or, with an inferior dog that is trained to bite, you don’t have as much control as you should - and that’s a HUGE LIABILITY.
End rant
[quote]treco wrote:
“Caucasian Shepherds are typically assertive, brave, alert, strong, hardy and courageous to a fault. They are likely to be the most aggressive natural guard dog breed in domesticity and truly second to none in bellicosity towards strangers. Unless properly raised and socialized, they may exhibit unmanageable tendencies.” Probably a bit much for unexperienced.
The common guardian/police/personal protection dogs are the herding types - German Shepherd, Belgian Malinois, Giant Schnauzer, Dutch Shepherd, Bouviers. They have been bred for centuries to be trainable to attack man, not other beasts like the pitbreeds. Other animal protection breeds might work as fair as protecting their home - Anatolian Shepherd, Pyrenees, etc. [/quote]
Caucasian Shepherds as they are referred to in some circles are as to man as pitbull is to another dog. CS are not to be fooled with and can be extremely aggressive. I would not recommend the average dog owner undertake the ownership of one. Most will certainly attack an intruder. Of more concern is that most will most certainly attack any stranger. And not every stranger is an intruder intended to do you harm.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]
What that they are the number one most stolen dog out of people’s front yards?
If the criminal is half experienced in robbery, they’ll know this. Not sure why people use an animal aggressive animal as a human aggressive animal. About as retarded as using a .22 single shot on a bull elephant. About as effective, too.[/quote]
THIS.
I’m a long time pitbull breeder. My single biggest fear is not one of my dogs biting someone - but someone STEALING one of my dogs. My dogs certainly cannot be trusted with one another, but they would never bite anyone. It’s not the breed’s natural disposition and I prefer to not to mess with that.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ether_bunny wrote:
[quote]ritzgooch23 wrote:
[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]
I have an American Pit too…and boy do I love him more then anything BUT…would I recommend the breed? Depends. I’ve had to be very stern with mine, and sometimes you really gotta show them who’s boss because they’re like shitty little kids lol. In the end though, they are sooo loving and loyal. They’re super smart too, but it all depends on your personality. I love the challenge, but it can be frustrating at times. Anyway, in my experience if you just want a protective dog that’s easy to train, get a german shepard! sorry for the rant, hope this helps.[/quote]
^ Yeah, avoid pitbulls. The last breed of dog you want attacking someone. It’s not their fault, but they were bred for nasty business. Bear-baiting, actually. And dog fighting.
Don’t get me wrong, I love dogs. Even pitbulls. But whether it’s bred-in instincts or just the favorite dog of idiots, over a third of dog attacks are from pitbulls.
Rotts, on the other hand, are awesome. Even though the romans would put armor on them, they were foremost a herding dog. I’ve always thought herd dogs interact the best with children.
And don’t count your dog out, just because he doesn’t look tough. I once saw an elderly border collie take down a bull by the nose after a toddler climbed into its pen.[/quote]
Incorrect, in attack reports, 1/3 of the dogs are reported as APBTs, but they are usually not. Unfortunate case of the media needing a villain.[/quote]
THIS AGAIN.
Not only that, but remember, a dog IS a dumb animal that wants to PLEASE you. You can CONDITION dogs to do just about anything, including be aggressive and bite. That doesn’t mean the dog that will bite represents an entire breed. The pitbull problem in particular is one of ownership, not the breed. If the issue were pitbulls attacking other animals, that’s a “pitbull problem” because that’s the true nature of the breed. But attacking people is not its natural disposition. Since the media storm is not necessarily about pitbulls attacking other animals (I know they do when they get loose but largely the media is focused on people being bitten), we don’t have a “pitbull problem”, we have a “pitbull ownership problem”. The breed attracts idiots like a tavern on the weekend.
if you’re looking for a guard consider the Neapolitan Mastiff. descended from the Molossus, which was the dogs used in the gladiator contests it is big intimidating dog. it’s dark so you can’t see it at night. the ears are cropped so there is nothing to hold onto and the folds around the eyes are to channel blood away so it can see. the large dewlaps are so that if it gets bitten on the muzzle it can twist and get it’s mouth on it’s opponent. when I was in Italy I was told that as home guard dogs they were trained to hide in the shadows and to get between the intruder and his escape route then attack without barking.
you have to train any guard dog properly. you must be the alpha and your family is the pack. your children should be included in the training. 99.9% of the time it’s not bad dogs but bad owners that never took the time to do it right.
this isn’t the best video as the dog is being held back and you can tell it’s having fun. I’ve seen them in action at a security dog facility and it is equal to any dog out there.
^BG,I was reading this thread and was hoping you would respond. You got your shit together when it comes to dogs man.
This is weird but I’ve heard a few times that geese(white ones) are the best at warning you when there is an intruder…after that they’re useless…like my contribution to this thread lol.
Turkish Kangal.
look it up!
[quote]treco wrote:
“Caucasian Shepherds are typically assertive, brave, alert, strong, hardy and courageous to a fault. They are likely to be the most aggressive natural guard dog breed in domesticity and truly second to none in bellicosity towards strangers. Unless properly raised and socialized, they may exhibit unmanageable tendencies.” Probably a bit much for unexperienced.
The common guardian/police/personal protection dogs are the herding types - German Shepherd, Belgian Malinois, Giant Schnauzer, Dutch Shepherd, Bouviers. They have been bred for centuries to be trainable to attack man, not other beasts like the pitbreeds. Other animal protection breeds might work as fair as protecting their home - Anatolian Shepherd, Pyrenees, etc. [/quote]
My Grandfather had a Caucasian shepherd he named “Pete” and I have many a fond memory of the stories he told me about Pete.
He was known to lure groundhogs out of their burrows and grab them behind the head and toss them up in the air … over and over until he killed them.
My Grandfather also used him as a guard dog for his farm.
These dogs are not recommended as guard dogs. They may swarm and get on top of you but they won’t do much else.
If anyone is brave enough to continue breaking in past his bark and growl (which sounds vicious as fuck) I’m pretty sure my dog would just try and play with the intruder, lol.
So yeah, BG knows his dogs and should just start a “Dogs 1.0” thread.
I find it ridiculous that so many seem to be seriously suggesting breeds like the Neapolitan Mastiff or a Caucasian Shepard. The OP, as many have suggested, would do fine with a dog that will just alert him of an intruder’s presence. He apparently already has a dog, and if it does alert, that should be enough. As others have said a vicious dog is not going to solve any problems. I think getting some of the dogs suggested would cause more trouble than solve.
If people are following your mother home she needs to not head directly home and instead call the police with a good description. If you’re afraid of people breaking in an alarm system and a barking dog should give you enough time to rack your shotgun, assume a defensive position somewhere safe in the house, and call the police.
A dog will not solve anything and instead be an added expense.
There are better solutions to the problems the OP described. Heck, I’d take a shotgun and a chihuahua over a Neo Mastiff any day.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ether_bunny wrote:
[quote]ritzgooch23 wrote:
[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]
I have an American Pit too…and boy do I love him more then anything BUT…would I recommend the breed? Depends. I’ve had to be very stern with mine, and sometimes you really gotta show them who’s boss because they’re like shitty little kids lol. In the end though, they are sooo loving and loyal. They’re super smart too, but it all depends on your personality. I love the challenge, but it can be frustrating at times. Anyway, in my experience if you just want a protective dog that’s easy to train, get a german shepard! sorry for the rant, hope this helps.[/quote]
^ Yeah, avoid pitbulls. The last breed of dog you want attacking someone. It’s not their fault, but they were bred for nasty business. Bear-baiting, actually. And dog fighting.
Don’t get me wrong, I love dogs. Even pitbulls. But whether it’s bred-in instincts or just the favorite dog of idiots, over a third of dog attacks are from pitbulls.
Rotts, on the other hand, are awesome. Even though the romans would put armor on them, they were foremost a herding dog. I’ve always thought herd dogs interact the best with children.
And don’t count your dog out, just because he doesn’t look tough. I once saw an elderly border collie take down a bull by the nose after a toddler climbed into its pen.[/quote]
Incorrect, in attack reports, 1/3 of the dogs are reported as APBTs, but they are usually not. Unfortunate case of the media needing a villain.[/quote]
Fifteen second google check comes up with the CDC showing a third of fatal attacks on humans are pitbulls or derivatives. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf
And from person experience, I can tell you, of the dozen or so dogs I’ve had to destroy, to protect my flock, the majority have been pitbulls or some sort of x-breed.
Idiots or breeding, probably a combination of both, but if nothing else, there’s a good chance your local community and insurance companies both have rules on the pitbull breed.
[quote]FIUPanther07 wrote:
I find it ridiculous that so many seem to be seriously suggesting breeds like the Neapolitan Mastiff or a Caucasian Shepard. The OP, as many have suggested, would do fine with a dog that will just alert him of an intruder’s presence. He apparently already has a dog, and if it does alert, that should be enough. As others have said a vicious dog is not going to solve any problems. I think getting some of the dogs suggested would cause more trouble than solve.
If people are following your mother home she needs to not head directly home and instead call the police with a good description. If you’re afraid of people breaking in an alarm system and a barking dog should give you enough time to rack your shotgun, assume a defensive position somewhere safe in the house, and call the police.
A dog will not solve anything and instead be an added expense.
There are better solutions to the problems the OP described. Heck, I’d take a shotgun and a chihuahua over a Neo Mastiff any day. [/quote]
the thread is “Good Guard Dogs” not good barkers. the Neapolitan is not a vicious dog but a guard dog. there is a difference as any dog can be vicious. if you just want a barker to alert you go rescue one from the local shelter.
if you’re really fast the defensive position is a good idea as long as you can get all the family members into the area or be positive about your target and won’t worry about a stray pellet or round. most people will hesitate to kill someone especially if they haven’t done it before.
Donavan pinscher,
it is specifically breed for the purpose you mentioned, it is a cross breed of a dutch shepard x bulldog and then german shepard and mastiff. If you want an intelligent trainable gaurd dog this is what want.
if you want a man eater to just protect your property, a dutch shepard is good, a pressa from the right stock.
german shepard is a good choice, have a slashing bite and will move postions better for taking down people.
but seriously thing what your goals are, 90% ofthe time just having a medium to large breed dog will keep burgalurs out. If you live in a real crappy area get one people are intimidated by, make noise and not act nice.
So honestly it all depends on what your real goal is for the animal. And remember there is a difference between protective and possessive, possessive is not good.
[quote]ether_bunny wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]ether_bunny wrote:
[quote]ritzgooch23 wrote:
[quote]jre67t wrote:
If it is just you and mom get an American Pitbull, real loyal and extremely territorial. They are aggressive though. Real smart dogs. Our dog catches rats and possums along with squirrels. There is stigma with pitbulls but if your trying to protect your house its a good stigma to have.[/quote]
I have an American Pit too…and boy do I love him more then anything BUT…would I recommend the breed? Depends. I’ve had to be very stern with mine, and sometimes you really gotta show them who’s boss because they’re like shitty little kids lol. In the end though, they are sooo loving and loyal. They’re super smart too, but it all depends on your personality. I love the challenge, but it can be frustrating at times. Anyway, in my experience if you just want a protective dog that’s easy to train, get a german shepard! sorry for the rant, hope this helps.[/quote]
^ Yeah, avoid pitbulls. The last breed of dog you want attacking someone. It’s not their fault, but they were bred for nasty business. Bear-baiting, actually. And dog fighting.
Don’t get me wrong, I love dogs. Even pitbulls. But whether it’s bred-in instincts or just the favorite dog of idiots, over a third of dog attacks are from pitbulls.
Rotts, on the other hand, are awesome. Even though the romans would put armor on them, they were foremost a herding dog. I’ve always thought herd dogs interact the best with children.
And don’t count your dog out, just because he doesn’t look tough. I once saw an elderly border collie take down a bull by the nose after a toddler climbed into its pen.[/quote]
Incorrect, in attack reports, 1/3 of the dogs are reported as APBTs, but they are usually not. Unfortunate case of the media needing a villain.[/quote]
Fifteen second google check comes up with the CDC showing a third of fatal attacks on humans are pitbulls or derivatives. http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf
And from person experience, I can tell you, of the dozen or so dogs I’ve had to destroy, to protect my flock, the majority have been pitbulls or some sort of x-breed.
Idiots or breeding, probably a combination of both, but if nothing else, there’s a good chance your local community and insurance companies both have rules on the pitbull breed.
[/quote]
Ok lets clear some things up, an America Pit Bull Terrier was breed and genetically engineered as the perfect dog fighting dog. Anything not breed to those standards is not a pit bull, it is a perversion of the breed. A real pit has had human aggression culled out of it.
As long as you are responsible a descendant of the fighting lines still breed for some measure of gameness and culled for human aggression makes and awesome family pet and companion. They score higher then 95% of all other breeds on tempermant tests. And if you train them to not interact with your livestock they make good farm dogs because they will keep varment out of the fields and foxes and coyotes out of your hen houses. But for a guard dog they are only good if extremely well trained for protection. It is a job to them and not something that comes natural.
I have a donavan pinscher that is my dog and the guardian, I also a rednose out of the game lines from vicegrip kennels, that is the family pet. sleeps with my daughters.
Sorry the last i checked the CDC had to do with DISEASE, not experts on dog breeds. Maybe I should start getting my diet and exercise informaiton from the white house.