Going to Hell for This

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]dirtman wrote:
I bet she is a little girl looking for attention. If she were serious about harming herself, she would just do it and not play games. Anyone can jump off a building or in front of a train or access a gun or rope. Anyone cutting or doing that kinda thing is just a ball of self pity. [/quote]

Usually I try to be nice to people around here. But you are just an idiot. How close minded and ignorant can you be? Don’t you think someone has some serious problems if the are cutting themselves for attention? [/quote]

Nope.

its called attention seeking, they’re just doing it wrong.[/quote]

Ignorance is bliss
[/quote]

Keep trying to tell me otherwise, it wont work.

Emotional wrecks need emotional tampons. They use people.
[/quote]

I know it won’t. Hence- ignorance is bliss.
[/quote]

well, statistics do not support you on this on, E.

while i am too lazy to look up exact numbers, it goes a little something like this-

Females “attempt suicide” something like 8 times as often as males. Whereas males commit suicide something like 3 times as often as females.

This means 1 of 2 things:
option 1- females are too stupid and clumsy to succeed and males are somehow better at it
option 2- females do it seeking attention and males do it[/quote]

“Cutting” and attempting suicide are 2 totally different things. Many girls who cut are extremely secretive and ashamed about it even if they are doing it over extended periods of time. This makes for a piss poor cry for attention. This girl is obviously not secretive about it so this doesn’t necessarily apply, but we are speaking in generalities here.

As I said earlier in this thread I believe some girls are much more “genuine” than others with their cutting and some attention seeking definitely takes place IMO. However, just because a girl cuts herself and doesn’t die (especially a girl who hides it) doesn’t mean she doesn’t have serious psychological problems. She maybe never intended to kill herself, but that hardly means she’s oakey dokey.

As far as the higher rate of completion with men’s suicide attempts, this is at least in part due to the fact that men often use firearms and generally shoot themselves in the head. Survival rates in these situations, even given medical attention, are going to be significantly lower than almost any other method. I would also submit that the “reconsider” rate drops to almost nothing as one cannot un-pull a trigger and decide to call for help.

Furthermore, men are more prone to directing their angst and aggression outwards into the world in the form of violence and crime while women tend to internalize it in the form of self harm. This makes the whole comparison a little more complex IMO. Saying that men kill themselves more often than women because they are more serious or more genuine about it while women are out for attention when they self-harm is simply inaccurate as a stand alone statement.

Edited

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]dirtman wrote:
I bet she is a little girl looking for attention. If she were serious about harming herself, she would just do it and not play games. Anyone can jump off a building or in front of a train or access a gun or rope. Anyone cutting or doing that kinda thing is just a ball of self pity. [/quote]

Usually I try to be nice to people around here. But you are just an idiot. How close minded and ignorant can you be? Don’t you think someone has some serious problems if the are cutting themselves for attention? [/quote]

Nope.

its called attention seeking, they’re just doing it wrong.[/quote]

Ignorance is bliss
[/quote]

Keep trying to tell me otherwise, it wont work.

Emotional wrecks need emotional tampons. They use people.
[/quote]

I know it won’t. Hence- ignorance is bliss.
[/quote]

well, statistics do not support you on this on, E.

while i am too lazy to look up exact numbers, it goes a little something like this-

Females “attempt suicide” something like 8 times as often as males. Whereas males commit suicide something like 3 times as often as females.

This means 1 of 2 things:
option 1- females are too stupid and clumsy to succeed and males are somehow better at it
option 2- females do it seeking attention and males do it[/quote]

“Cutting” and attempting suicide are 2 totally different things. Many girls who cut are extremely secretive and ashamed about it even if they are doing it over extended periods of time. This makes for a piss poor cry for attention. This girl is obviously not secretive about it so this doesn’t necessarily apply, but we are speaking in generalities here.

As I said earlier in this thread I believe some girls are much more “genuine” than others with their cutting and some attention seeking definitely takes place IMO. However, just because a girl cuts herself and doesn’t die (especially a girl who hides it) doesn’t mean she doesn’t have serious psychological problems. She maybe never intended to kill herself, but that hardly means she’s oakey dokey.

As far as the higher rate of completion with men’s suicide attempts, this is at least in part due to the fact that men often use firearms and generally shoot themselves in the head. Survival rates in these situations, even given medical attention, are going to be significantly lower than almost any other method. I would also submit that the “reconsider” rate drops to almost nothing as one cannot un-pull a trigger and decide to call for help.

Furthermore, men are more prone to directing their angst and aggression outwards into the world in the form of violence and crime while women tend to internalize it in the form of self harm. This makes the whole comparison a little more complex IMO. Saying that men kill themselves more often than women because they are more serious or more genuine about it while women are out for attention when they self-harm is simply inaccurate as a stand alone statement.

Edited[/quote]
cutting is another form of self-hurt, just like “attempted suicide.” it is an attempt to gain attention. you missed the message- they arent really trying to commit suicide, they are doing something they know will hurt them but not kill them, so they can get the attention they crave. so, cutting and “attempted suicide” (i put it in quotes because it really isnt an attempt at suicide at all) are indeed the EXACT same thing.

the attention could be whining high school bullcrap or it could be a genuine cry for help. It is attention nonetheless.

Of course SOME girls are “genuine” (your word)- the ones that actually do it. that is why the stat isnt ‘0% of women commit suicide.’

“She maybe never intended to kill herself, but that hardly means she’s oakey dokey.”–that equals attempt at getting attention. so you actually agree with me.

You are just supporting my point with the paragraph about mens methods. Males choose methods that will kill them. Females choose things like handfuls of aspirin or too many sleeping pills, things that will likely not kill them but get them hospitalized, thereby achieving the attention they were seeking.

the stand alone statement “men kill themselves more often than women because they are more serious or more genuine about it while women are out for attention when they self-harm” is 100% accurate. Or do you intend to offer an alternate hypothesis and then support it with statistics?

Like I said before, if someone is cutting themselves for attention then they probably have some issues. However, saying that anyone who cuts themselves is a ball of self pity and attention seeking is simply wrong. Hell, some people cut themselves and aren’t even unhappy. Some people just want to see their own blood, want to feel pain. Those types of people are not attention seeking at all. In fact, lots try to hide it or are ashamed of it. If someone has a scratch on their arm and goes around telling everyone then fine, they want attention. Doesn’t mean they are necessarily ok though. If someone bleeds profusely and could have used stitches, then that’s a different story.

[quote]E901 wrote:
Like I said before, if someone is cutting themselves for attention then they probably have some issues. However, saying that anyone who cuts themselves is a ball of self pity and attention seeking is simply wrong. Hell, some people cut themselves and aren’t even unhappy. Some people just want to see their own blood, want to feel pain. Those types of people are not attention seeking at all. In fact, lots try to hide it or are ashamed of it. If someone has a scratch on their arm and goes around telling everyone then fine, they want attention. Doesn’t mean they are necessarily ok though. If someone bleeds profusely and could have used stitches, then that’s a different story. [/quote]
I never said they didnt have issues. obviously they do.

And you list some obvious exceptions to the rule, which always exist.

the vast majority are looking for attention. Obviously not every single last one is, nothing involving humans is 100% all the time.

It sounds like you are mistaking a need for attention with being an attention whore. I am not necessarily talking about ‘hey look at me’ bs, as I said before. It can be a genuine cry for help. the word attention is still sound.

I also missed the ‘ball of self pity’ line, which is harsh. It may very well be true, though. You do not think someone could be in self pity and cut themselves?

long story short- is every single cutter looking for attention? no. Are many who self harm? absolutely.

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:
Like I said before, if someone is cutting themselves for attention then they probably have some issues. However, saying that anyone who cuts themselves is a ball of self pity and attention seeking is simply wrong. Hell, some people cut themselves and aren’t even unhappy. Some people just want to see their own blood, want to feel pain. Those types of people are not attention seeking at all. In fact, lots try to hide it or are ashamed of it. If someone has a scratch on their arm and goes around telling everyone then fine, they want attention. Doesn’t mean they are necessarily ok though. If someone bleeds profusely and could have used stitches, then that’s a different story. [/quote]
I never said they didnt have issues. obviously they do.

And you list some obvious exceptions to the rule, which always exist.

the vast majority are looking for attention. Obviously not every single last one is, nothing involving humans is 100% all the time.

It sounds like you are mistaking a need for attention with being an attention whore. I am not necessarily talking about ‘hey look at me’ bs, as I said before. It can be a genuine cry for help. the word attention is still sound.

I also missed the ‘ball of self pity’ line, which is harsh. It may very well be true, though. You do not think someone could be in self pity and cut themselves?

long story short- is every single cutter looking for attention? no. Are many who self harm? absolutely.[/quote]

I’m listing obvious “exceptions” because it is my belief that the majority DON’T do it for attention. I see attention seeking as the exception, not the other way around. Some do it for attention, most don’t. I just think that assuming someone who cuts themselves wants attention is just wrong because it’s not so a lot of the time.

I don’t totally disagree with you though. If someone wants attention it can be because of serious issues. Saying “she just wants attention” seems more like saying she is an attention whore and not genuinely seeking help. If someone thinks they are an attention whore, than that’s just ignorant. So I could have taken what other posters were saying the wrong way and assumed they meant attention whore.

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]E901 wrote:

[quote]dirtman wrote:
I bet she is a little girl looking for attention. If she were serious about harming herself, she would just do it and not play games. Anyone can jump off a building or in front of a train or access a gun or rope. Anyone cutting or doing that kinda thing is just a ball of self pity. [/quote]

Usually I try to be nice to people around here. But you are just an idiot. How close minded and ignorant can you be? Don’t you think someone has some serious problems if the are cutting themselves for attention? [/quote]

Nope.

its called attention seeking, they’re just doing it wrong.[/quote]

Ignorance is bliss
[/quote]

Keep trying to tell me otherwise, it wont work.

Emotional wrecks need emotional tampons. They use people.
[/quote]

I know it won’t. Hence- ignorance is bliss.
[/quote]

well, statistics do not support you on this on, E.

while i am too lazy to look up exact numbers, it goes a little something like this-

Females “attempt suicide” something like 8 times as often as males. Whereas males commit suicide something like 3 times as often as females.

This means 1 of 2 things:
option 1- females are too stupid and clumsy to succeed and males are somehow better at it
option 2- females do it seeking attention and males do it[/quote]

“Cutting” and attempting suicide are 2 totally different things. Many girls who cut are extremely secretive and ashamed about it even if they are doing it over extended periods of time. This makes for a piss poor cry for attention. This girl is obviously not secretive about it so this doesn’t necessarily apply, but we are speaking in generalities here.

As I said earlier in this thread I believe some girls are much more “genuine” than others with their cutting and some attention seeking definitely takes place IMO. However, just because a girl cuts herself and doesn’t die (especially a girl who hides it) doesn’t mean she doesn’t have serious psychological problems. She maybe never intended to kill herself, but that hardly means she’s oakey dokey.

As far as the higher rate of completion with men’s suicide attempts, this is at least in part due to the fact that men often use firearms and generally shoot themselves in the head. Survival rates in these situations, even given medical attention, are going to be significantly lower than almost any other method. I would also submit that the “reconsider” rate drops to almost nothing as one cannot un-pull a trigger and decide to call for help.

Furthermore, men are more prone to directing their angst and aggression outwards into the world in the form of violence and crime while women tend to internalize it in the form of self harm. This makes the whole comparison a little more complex IMO. Saying that men kill themselves more often than women because they are more serious or more genuine about it while women are out for attention when they self-harm is simply inaccurate as a stand alone statement.

Edited[/quote]
cutting is another form of self-hurt, just like “attempted suicide.” it is an attempt to gain attention. you missed the message- they arent really trying to commit suicide, they are doing something they know will hurt them but not kill them, so they can get the attention they crave. so, cutting and “attempted suicide” (i put it in quotes because it really isnt an attempt at suicide at all) are indeed the EXACT same thing.

the attention could be whining high school bullcrap or it could be a genuine cry for help. It is attention nonetheless.

Of course SOME girls are “genuine” (your word)- the ones that actually do it. that is why the stat isnt ‘0% of women commit suicide.’

“She maybe never intended to kill herself, but that hardly means she’s oakey dokey.”–that equals attempt at getting attention. so you actually agree with me.

You are just supporting my point with the paragraph about mens methods. Males choose methods that will kill them. Females choose things like handfuls of aspirin or too many sleeping pills, things that will likely not kill them but get them hospitalized, thereby achieving the attention they were seeking.

the stand alone statement “men kill themselves more often than women because they are more serious or more genuine about it while women are out for attention when they self-harm” is 100% accurate. Or do you intend to offer an alternate hypothesis and then support it with statistics?[/quote]

I don’t entirely disagree with you.

However, if girl(A) cuts herself and then tells and later sends pics to a guy she hardly knows, then yes, I suspect she is out for attention. If girl(B) locks herself in the bathroom, cuts her upper thigh or some other discreet place and never shows or tells anyone it seems less like she’s out for attention. Girl(B) is not the exception that proves the rule IMO. You just don’t hear about her as much because, well, she doesn’t tell anyone.

Regarding suicides, I will not offer an alternative hypothesis and support it with statistics because I don’t believe the statistics tell the whole story. It is generally recognized that even women who are serious about killing themselves are generally averse to any method which will disfigure the head/face while men have no such compunctions. This mostly rules out gunshots to the head and long drops onto hard surfaces for women. These are the most immediately and irrevocably lethal means that I can think of from among the commonly exercised options. This leaves primarily pills/poisons and blades. These require time to kill, thus affording someone who may have started out “serious” the chance to change their mind during the wait for the end.

So I hypothesize that an equally serious man and woman might both set out to kill themselves on a given evening with commonly available materials. The man puts a 12 gauge in his mouth and completes the task. Begun is done. He may very well have second thoughts in the millisecond between when he pulls the trigger and when his brain is destroyed, but we’ll never know. The woman cuts herself, begins to bleed out, panics, calls 911 and puts pressure on the wound, gets medical attention and lives. She just wanted attention…

It wasn’t because she was less serious at the outset, her method is simply less reliable and her selection of that method was the result of elements of her psyche totally unrelated to how committed she may have been to ending her life. Thus, the statistics don’t tell the whole story. You may very well be right, just not necessarily as right as the statistics would seem to show.

How many Dr Phils we got in this thread?

They are females we will never fucking understand.

[quote]Rollsroyce13 wrote:
How many Dr Phils we got in this thread?

They are females we will never fucking understand.

[/quote]

Agreed. Doesn’t mean that as husbands/fathers/brothers/friends we shouldn’t make the effort.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

… Doesn’t mean that as husbands/fathers/brothers/friends we shouldn’t make the effort.[/quote]
This.

When I read threads like this I cannot help but thank God I grew up with some morals. She’s cutting herself. You should try to help her to get some help.

[quote]Rollsroyce13 wrote:
How many Dr Phils we got in this thread?

They are females we will never fucking understand.

[/quote]

Not just females. I’ve worked with a couple of teen boys who cut. It’s not as common, but they’re out there.

The world would be a much easier place if people could feel more then they think… And beliefs and mental standpoints could just be dropped, like damn nobody needs to prove something or defend anything… If egos didn’t exist problems could be solved WAY faster… Someone doing something out of inner pain then let them help themself and get the right outter and info they need to recover, and to stop worrying about all the petty stuff.