[quote]etaco wrote:
Georgia has been trying to draw us into their conflict with the Russians for years. They may be figuring that this is their last best chance to do so before a new administration comes in that is less likely to stick its neck out for them.[/quote]
Agree with the first part. Not the second. Both McCain and Obama are (moronically) for adding Georgia to NATO. The American Conservative’s Daniel Larison had a good post on the subject:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
As long as we stay out of it.[/quote]
Exactly.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
As long as we stay out of it.
Exactly.[/quote]
It’s not like you got much of a choice.
For one thing, Russia can do very serious damage to the US. Also, much of the American military is stretched out thin in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Russia is pretty cool with the status quo. This is just Georgia testing Medvedev by shaking things up a bit. Saakashvili’s reheating old and tired anti-Russian propaganda in the hope that Uncle Sam will lean on Moscow.
Ossetia belongs to Ossetians.
[quote]lixy wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
As long as we stay out of it.
Exactly.
It’s not like you got much of a choice.
For one thing, Russia can do very serious damage to the US. Also, much of the American military is stretched out thin in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Russia is pretty cool with the status quo. This is just Georgia testing Medvedev by shaking things up a bit. Saakashvili’s reheating old and tired anti-Russian propaganda in the hope that Uncle Sam will lean on Moscow.
Ossetia belongs to Ossetians.[/quote]
America isn’t even close to being stretched.
Strategically Georgia remaining independant is more important to the EU than the USA. This is because of the oil pipeline. If Russia gains control of Georgia then the EU can be held to ransom by Russia for oil.
The Ossetians have been attacking other Georgian citizens. It is hardly an unprovoked attack by the Georgians.
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
So who are we looking at now? Russia, Iran, China, North Korea, vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar. Anyone else going to join the dark side.
Not a good prospect at all. Russia and China likely could steamroll most if not all of the eastern hemisphere. America would do well to stay the hell away if something like that happens.[/quote]
Maybe. They would have to take on Western Europe and Japan at the same time and quickly. If they gave either enough time to mobilse and get their industry producing military units (a couple of years tops) then I doubt they could win. So if they hadn’t taken both in 2-3 years then they would lose.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
There is considerable stress on recruiters. From all the lures the American military is offering kids (and foreigners), it’s safe to say that it is stretched. Which is another term to say that it’s experiencing strain.
US total supremacy in the military field has never come into question in my mind. But AK wielding goat herders in Afghanistan and a 2003 Iraq (a devastated country) created palpable stress.
Definitely. But you see, Europe came a long way from its trigger happy days. The rest of your post is straight off fantasy land.
Georgia attacked Russian citizens. And about the unprovoked, it all depends how far back you’re willing to go.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
Let the EU deal with it. Outside of severe human rights abuse or direct impact on the US, our military should stay out of it. I do beleive Russia will once again become a pain in our ass but Georgia is not the springboard to dealing with them.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
Maybe. They would have to take on Western Europe and Japan at the same time and quickly. If they gave either enough time to mobilse and get their industry producing military units (a couple of years tops) then I doubt they could win. So if they hadn’t taken both in 2-3 years then they would lose.[/quote]
China has the military and manpower to flood japan now, nothing like WWII, so Japan would prolly be SOL. Russia could, with a small front, drive a wedge through europe and capture key locations until china can turn to that front. However, this thread isn’t really for discussing tactics.
Again, i just hope the US stays out of this. I think (hope) it’s too small scale to spark a WWIII, but if it does, it will not end well. Esp. for Europe.
[quote]dhickey wrote:
Outside of severe human rights abuse [/quote]
Does Abu Ghraib qualify?
Nice paranoia. Of course only the USA is entitled to have a selfish foreign policy and start a war any 5 years, when someone else does it its the start of ww3…
[quote]Ken Kaniff wrote:
Nice paranoia. Of course only the USA is entitled to have a selfish foreign policy and start a war any 5 years, when someone else does it its the start of ww3…[/quote]
As i recall, Iraq wasn’t allied to any superpowers. If Russia just steamrolls the area and then fortifies, problem resolved, Georgia won’t be able to retaliate if they’re completely forced out, We (i) am just worried other nations will get drawn in, and that’s when the shit hits the proverbial fan.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
etaco wrote:
Georgia has been trying to draw us into their conflict with the Russians for years. They may be figuring that this is their last best chance to do so before a new administration comes in that is less likely to stick its neck out for them.
Agree with the first part. Not the second. Both McCain and Obama are (moronically) for adding Georgia to NATO. The American Conservative’s Daniel Larison had a good post on the subject:
http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2008/08/08/georgia-2/[/quote]
Campaign policy papers aside, my impression is that Obama is the least likely of the three to stick his neck out in this region, to the extent that any of them would in the face of fire. He is the betting man’s choice for the next president so the argument follows.
That said, the US has very little real leverage in this at this point in time-- and the reasons for this are numerous as you know-- and I’m sure the Russians are reveling the opportunity to give us a little black eye by (loose) proxy and send a message to their other neighbors that they still have the final word in their sphere.
Okay blaze, thats true. Just now i remember all the talks about Georgia wanting to join the nato, which Putin of course doesnt want to happen at all costs. And hes ruthless like hell. Its suspicious that the thing started just with the beginning of the olympics…
[quote]lixy wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Outside of severe human rights abuse
Does Abu Ghraib qualify?[/quote]
What does that have to do with anything dhickey wrote? We get it, you hate the US.
What about similar abuses during the Iranian revolution? During the civil war in Lebanon? During Saddam’s reign?
These also qualify…qualify as having nothing what so ever to do with the topic.
Carry on.
Let me get it straight. Most ossetian’s are russian citizens. They are an unrecognized but autnomous republic. And georgia seeking old territory attacked? I heard Abkhazia might join in the conflict.
What the hell where georgia’s politician’s thinking. The russians are going to annihilate them.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Let me get it straight. Most ossetian’s are russian citizens. They are an unrecognized but autnomous republic. And georgia seeking old territory attacked? I heard Abkhazia might join in the conflict.
What the hell where georgia’s politician’s thinking. The russians are going to annihilate them.[/quote]
yeah you pretty much are right there. I hadn’t heard about Abkhazia, but i’m guessing unless they intend to join with the Russians, they probably won’t get involved. Nobody wants to voluntarily put their head on the chopping block.
[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
Nobody wants to voluntarily put their head on the chopping block.[/quote]
you mean like the georgians just did 
wikipedia figures show the russians have 3x the amount of troops, and equipment in the area…already.
Well it will be interesting to see whether Russia faces the international backlash that the US has faced for Iraq. At least the US had a semi-legit reason they gave
US cares more about relations to Russia than with Georgia. Georgia just gave troubles to Iraq because it wants to gave favor with NATO to get in.
Along the lines of US stretched thin. US could pull out of Europe if it wanted. If anything happened with Russia, we would be out of Iraq and on the border of Russia in hours. It is just a matter of priorities.
In all honesty this will blow over in a month…
[quote]tg2hbk4488 wrote:
Well it will be interesting to see whether Russia faces the international backlash that the US has faced for Iraq. At least the US had a semi-legit reason they gave [/quote]
So Georgians killing Russian citizens of Ossetia on Russia’s border is somehow less legitimate than an Iraqi killing other Iraqis in the furthest possible location from the United States?
Cool!
[quote]lixy wrote:
phaethon wrote:
There is considerable stress on recruiters. From all the lures the American military is offering kids (and foreigners), it’s safe to say that it is stretched. Which is another term to say that it’s experiencing strain.
US total supremacy in the military field has never come into question in my mind. But AK wielding goat herders in Afghanistan and a 2003 Iraq (a devastated country) created palpable stress.
[/quote]
Most people think under stress and being stretched thin are very different. The USA drummed up more troops for the Korean and Vietnam Wars. I wouldn’t have even said they were in trouble during those wars.
[quote]lixy wrote:
2. Strategically Georgia remaining independant is more important to the EU than the USA. This is because of the oil pipeline. If Russia gains control of Georgia then the EU can be held to ransom by Russia for oil.
Definitely. But you see, Europe came a long way from its trigger happy days. The rest of your post is straight off fantasy land.
[/quote]
How else can the EU get its oil? And yes sadly Western Europe is in the same position they were in when Hitler took power.
[quote]lixy wrote:
3. The Ossetians have been attacking other Georgian citizens. It is hardly an unprovoked attack by the Georgians.
Georgia attacked Russian citizens. And about the unprovoked, it all depends how far back you’re willing to go.[/quote]
Georgia attacked Russian separatists in Georgia after being attacked by them first. They have only been Russian citizens for around 2 years which shows that Russia is trying to cause trouble.
As for unprovoked there have been a lot of roadside bombings and shootings in Georgia from June onwards this year.