[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< I absolutely have a problem with the possibility that the laws under which I live are somehow shaped by a book whose opening act features a talking snake. Yes.[/quote]Then might wanna try a different country because that’s where this one started. Nah. Have no fear. You’ll have succeeded in killing her pretty soon.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]CornSprint wrote:
You argue that a gay man has the right to marry or not marry a woman like any straight man. If, as I believe and science increasingly supports, homosexuality is not a choice and is a largely genetically/otherwise physiologically determined state, this is not equal. Genetically, they are predisposed to find the prospect of a close romantic relationship with a woman unsavory and unfulfilling.[/quote]
That argument is nonsense. Let’s extend it to another sphere: alcohol is legal. Some guy doesn’t like alcohol and has a preference for cocaine. Should cocaine be legalised to accommodate his tastes? Is he being treated unequally before the law? It’s nonsense.[/quote]
All analogies limp, and this one fucking crawls. Cocaine use has demonstrably deleterious effects on both the individual and society. Homosexuality as it exists in modern society–as a relatively steady and modest percentage of the overall population–has neither.[/quote]
I say it does. It undermines the civil society.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< I absolutely have a problem with the possibility that the laws under which I live are somehow shaped by a book whose opening act features a talking snake. Yes.[/quote]Then might wanna try a country because that’s where this one started. Nah. Have no fear. You’ll have succeeded in killing her pretty soon.
[/quote]
First of all, though I have always been under the impression that you’re an extremely well-intentioned guy, this some pretty ruthless hyperbole. Or maybe I’m just sensitive because it’s the end of the day and I’m exhausted from killing America since early this morning.
More importantly: “That’s where this one started.” Well, I’m far less interested in where it started than in where it’s headed. When it started, it was full of slaves too. Doesn’t make slavery a good idea.
And if you’re trying to imply that the Founders were universally agreed that this nation should be an explicitly Christian one–and that that religiosity had a place in its government–then you’re entirely mistaken.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]CornSprint wrote:
You argue that a gay man has the right to marry or not marry a woman like any straight man. If, as I believe and science increasingly supports, homosexuality is not a choice and is a largely genetically/otherwise physiologically determined state, this is not equal. Genetically, they are predisposed to find the prospect of a close romantic relationship with a woman unsavory and unfulfilling.[/quote]
That argument is nonsense. Let’s extend it to another sphere: alcohol is legal. Some guy doesn’t like alcohol and has a preference for cocaine. Should cocaine be legalised to accommodate his tastes? Is he being treated unequally before the law? It’s nonsense.[/quote]
All analogies limp, and this one fucking crawls. Cocaine use has demonstrably deleterious effects on both the individual and society. Homosexuality as it exists in modern society–as a relatively steady and modest percentage of the overall population–has neither.[/quote]
I say it does. It undermines the civil society.[/quote]
This is meaningless. “Undermines civil society.” That doesn’t signify anything of substance. How and in what way? Provide some proof.
A refusal to explain your position or to argue by nothing more than assertion is tantamount to yielding.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]CornSprint wrote:
You argue that a gay man has the right to marry or not marry a woman like any straight man. If, as I believe and science increasingly supports, homosexuality is not a choice and is a largely genetically/otherwise physiologically determined state, this is not equal. Genetically, they are predisposed to find the prospect of a close romantic relationship with a woman unsavory and unfulfilling.[/quote]
That argument is nonsense. Let’s extend it to another sphere: alcohol is legal. Some guy doesn’t like alcohol and has a preference for cocaine. Should cocaine be legalised to accommodate his tastes? Is he being treated unequally before the law? It’s nonsense.[/quote]
All analogies limp, and this one fucking crawls. Cocaine use has demonstrably deleterious effects on both the individual and society. Homosexuality as it exists in modern society–as a relatively steady and modest percentage of the overall population–has neither.[/quote]
Again to save myself some typing. From about a year ago:[quote]Gay “marriage” is the latest component in a national suicide that began in earnest in the 1960’s. It HAS AND IS having an appreciable effect. A devastating suicidal one. This country was built on the social/political/economic foundation of very limited public government through privately and voluntarily practiced Judeo-Christian morality.
Oh yes it was. Our founders clearly told us that. “The reason we can give you so few rules boys n girls is because you’re already so well behaved on the whole” to paraphrase in a nutshell. Even the total hypocritical pagans like Jefferson and Franklin clearly understood this.
The soil out of which new citizens grow is their family or lack thereof. Every single last issue killing this country is a direct consequence of that. The founders assumed that we would continue in the new testament model of one man and one woman for life wherein boundaries that engender self sacrifice, self control, decency, modesty and HONESTY in the act of upholding one’s vows because one’s word actually meant something. All of this was predicated upon the assumption that God designed it that way. That was the soil for new citizens they absolutely counted on for their experiment in self government to succeed and it did.
We skyrocketed into the most prosperous, powerful, feared and respected nation in all of human history over the course of a few generations BECAUSE despite our human foibles we were the most moral because we were the most Christian. Look at the soil our citizens are growing in now. Children of the hippies. Hedonistic, self obsessed, narcissistic, materialistic whoremongers whose mission in life is bringing themselves the most pleasure in the most rapid fashion possible.
ALL the economic woes we are now in ARE, make no mistake, the consequence of the sexually moral degeneration of this nation’s citizenry resulting in the destruction of the foundational social unit upon which she was built and out of which her members are spawned. Even Stalin understood this. He told the world that the United Sates would never be defeated as long as she maintained her spirituality and hence MORality.
Wanna know what’s rotting this nation dead from the inside out like an oozing flesh eating virus? Go look in your â??Sex and the Male Animal forum.â?? We will destroy OURSELVES to the snickering glee of our many enemies without a shot being fired, all in the name of getting laid. Gay marriage is just the latest chapter. [/quote]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]CornSprint wrote:
You argue that a gay man has the right to marry or not marry a woman like any straight man. If, as I believe and science increasingly supports, homosexuality is not a choice and is a largely genetically/otherwise physiologically determined state, this is not equal. Genetically, they are predisposed to find the prospect of a close romantic relationship with a woman unsavory and unfulfilling.[/quote]
That argument is nonsense. Let’s extend it to another sphere: alcohol is legal. Some guy doesn’t like alcohol and has a preference for cocaine. Should cocaine be legalised to accommodate his tastes? Is he being treated unequally before the law? It’s nonsense.[/quote]
All analogies limp, and this one fucking crawls. Cocaine use has demonstrably deleterious effects on both the individual and society. Homosexuality as it exists in modern society–as a relatively steady and modest percentage of the overall population–has neither.[/quote]
Again to save myself some typing. From about a year ago:[quote]Gay “marriage” is the latest component in a national suicide that began in earnest in the 1960’s. It HAS AND IS having an appreciable effect. A devastating suicidal one. This country was built on the social/political/economic foundation of very limited public government through privately and voluntarily practiced Judeo-Christian morality.
Oh yes it was. Our founders clearly told us that. “The reason we can give you so few rules boys n girls is because you’re already so well behaved on the whole” to paraphrase in a nutshell. Even the total hypocritical pagans like Jefferson and Franklin clearly understood this.
The soil out of which new citizens grow is their family or lack thereof. Every single last issue killing this country is a direct consequence of that. The founders assumed that we would continue in the new testament model of one man and one woman for life wherein boundaries that engender self sacrifice, self control, decency, modesty and HONESTY in the act of upholding one’s vows because one’s word actually meant something. All of this was predicated upon the assumption that God designed it that way. That was the soil for new citizens they absolutely counted on for their experiment in self government to succeed and it did.
We skyrocketed into the most prosperous, powerful, feared and respected nation in all of human history over the course of a few generations BECAUSE despite our human foibles we were the most moral because we were the most Christian. Look at the soil our citizens are growing in now. Children of the hippies. Hedonistic, self obsessed, narcissistic, materialistic whoremongers whose mission in life is bringing themselves the most pleasure in the most rapid fashion possible.
ALL the economic woes we are now in ARE, make no mistake, the consequence of the sexually moral degeneration of this nation’s citizenry resulting in the destruction of the foundational social unit upon which she was built and out of which her members are spawned. Even Stalin understood this. He told the world that the United Sates would never be defeated as long as she maintained her spirituality and hence MORality.
Wanna know what’s rotting this nation dead from the inside out like an oozing flesh eating virus? Go look in your â??Sex and the Male Animal forum.â?? We will destroy OURSELVES to the snickering glee of our many enemies without a shot being fired, all in the name of getting laid. Gay marriage is just the latest chapter. [/quote][/quote]
Tirib, there isn’t a shred of evidence or reasonable argumentation in this entire post.
It’s up to you all to show why homosexuality is so critical to society it should earn title, order, status, and privilege from the state, above any and all other imaginative human arrangement still left out in the cold.
Consider my vanishing scenario. It’s not.
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< When it started, it was full of slaves too. Doesn’t make slavery a good idea. >>>[/quote]And there’s the choo choo folks!!! Took what? 10 minutes LOL!!! Yeah, the country that defeated it because it was the right thing to do.
I have a rather generous wall of quotes that you will be entirely uninterested in seeing because they conclusively demonstrate the defining influence of biblical new testament Christianity on this once greatest nation until the “church” (little c) started buying Satanic lies like evolution. Perversions like homosexual “marriage” were only a matter of time. I dare you to listen to this 13 minute speech by an Arab immigrant, a PHD, reporting exactly what I’m saying. You won’t be happy. http://gregnmary.gotdns.com/index1.html
EDIT: Ignore the video. Click the the first word “THIS” (my html is pathetic)
[quote]smh23 wrote:
This is meaningless. “Undermines civil society.” That doesn’t signify anything of substance. How and in what way? Provide some proof.
A refusal to explain your position or to argue by nothing more than assertion is tantamount to yielding.[/quote]
I was assuming you had read/remembered my previous post on this. It undermines the civil society by condoning and sanctioning an abhorrent and unnatural act. It is at odds with a value system that has been in place for thousands of years and serves us well. And it is at odds with and undermines the family unit which is falling apart - the consequences of which can be seen all around.
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< Tirib, there isn’t a shred of evidence or reasonable argumentation in this entire post.[/quote]It is so abundantly clear and conclusive that you’d have to be a post modern God hating atheistic pagan to miss it. Oh wait.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< Tirib, there isn’t a shred of evidence or reasonable argumentation in this entire post.[/quote]It is so abundantly clear and conclusive that you’d have to be a post modern God hating atheistic pagan to miss it. Oh wait.
[/quote]
i’m an agnostic.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
This is meaningless. “Undermines civil society.” That doesn’t signify anything of substance. How and in what way? Provide some proof.
A refusal to explain your position or to argue by nothing more than assertion is tantamount to yielding.[/quote]
I was assuming you had read/remembered my previous post on this. It undermines the civil society by condoning and sanctioning an abhorrent and unnatural act.[/quote]
And you never showed that this was anything more than an opinion.
Abhorrent and unnatural by what standard and according to whom.
I will ignore the word “abhorrent” because its place in this discussion is self-evidently inappropriate and fatuous. I don’t care what you find disgusting and neither does anyone else. And your personal bigotries are sure as hell not basis for legislation.
Unnatural: again, this will come as news to the millions of people who have an extremely strong and extremely natural urge to engage in homosexual activity.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]CornSprint wrote:
You argue that a gay man has the right to marry or not marry a woman like any straight man. If, as I believe and science increasingly supports, homosexuality is not a choice and is a largely genetically/otherwise physiologically determined state, this is not equal. Genetically, they are predisposed to find the prospect of a close romantic relationship with a woman unsavory and unfulfilling.[/quote]
That argument is nonsense. Let’s extend it to another sphere: alcohol is legal. Some guy doesn’t like alcohol and has a preference for cocaine. Should cocaine be legalised to accommodate his tastes? Is he being treated unequally before the law? It’s nonsense.[/quote]
All analogies limp, and this one fucking crawls. Cocaine use has demonstrably deleterious effects on both the individual and society. Homosexuality as it exists in modern society–as a relatively steady and modest percentage of the overall population–has neither.[/quote]
Again to save myself some typing. From about a year ago:[quote]Gay “marriage” is the latest component in a national suicide that began in earnest in the 1960’s. It HAS AND IS having an appreciable effect. A devastating suicidal one. This country was built on the social/political/economic foundation of very limited public government through privately and voluntarily practiced Judeo-Christian morality.
Oh yes it was. Our founders clearly told us that. “The reason we can give you so few rules boys n girls is because you’re already so well behaved on the whole” to paraphrase in a nutshell. Even the total hypocritical pagans like Jefferson and Franklin clearly understood this.
The soil out of which new citizens grow is their family or lack thereof. Every single last issue killing this country is a direct consequence of that. The founders assumed that we would continue in the new testament model of one man and one woman for life wherein boundaries that engender self sacrifice, self control, decency, modesty and HONESTY in the act of upholding one’s vows because one’s word actually meant something. All of this was predicated upon the assumption that God designed it that way. That was the soil for new citizens they absolutely counted on for their experiment in self government to succeed and it did.
We skyrocketed into the most prosperous, powerful, feared and respected nation in all of human history over the course of a few generations BECAUSE despite our human foibles we were the most moral because we were the most Christian. Look at the soil our citizens are growing in now. Children of the hippies. Hedonistic, self obsessed, narcissistic, materialistic whoremongers whose mission in life is bringing themselves the most pleasure in the most rapid fashion possible.
ALL the economic woes we are now in ARE, make no mistake, the consequence of the sexually moral degeneration of this nation’s citizenry resulting in the destruction of the foundational social unit upon which she was built and out of which her members are spawned. Even Stalin understood this. He told the world that the United Sates would never be defeated as long as she maintained her spirituality and hence MORality.
Wanna know what’s rotting this nation dead from the inside out like an oozing flesh eating virus? Go look in your Ã??Ã?¢??Sex and the Male Animal forum.Ã??Ã?¢?? We will destroy OURSELVES to the snickering glee of our many enemies without a shot being fired, all in the name of getting laid. Gay marriage is just the latest chapter. [/quote][/quote]
Tirib, there isn’t a shred of evidence or reasonable argumentation in this entire post.[/quote]
That is exactly the kind of posts that made me ignore him completely, although I still see everything when I’m not logged in.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
That is exactly the kind of posts that made me ignore him completely.[/quote]
Between that and the unbelievably condescending “here comes the choo choo” shit, I’m considering it myself.
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< i’m an agnostic.[/quote]6 a one.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
This is meaningless. “Undermines civil society.” That doesn’t signify anything of substance. How and in what way? Provide some proof.
A refusal to explain your position or to argue by nothing more than assertion is tantamount to yielding.[/quote]
I was assuming you had read/remembered my previous post on this. It undermines the civil society by condoning and sanctioning an abhorrent and unnatural act. It is at odds with a value system that has been in place for thousands of years and serves us well. And it is at odds with and undermines the family unit which is falling apart - the consequences of which can be seen all around.[/quote]
By the way, it seems like you would support the criminalization of homosexuality altogether, enforcement issues aside. Am I correct?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< i’m an agnostic.[/quote]6 a one.
[/quote]
Not even close.
Atheists and the devout have something very important in common–an irrational, delusional, and in many ways arrogant belief that they know the unknowable. To aver that there is no God is just as ridiculous as to aver that He exists and I know just what He wants me to do.
It is difficult to believe that anyone can open their eyes and look around and not have the good sense to conclude, “I don’t know.”
[quote]smh23 wrote:
And you never showed that this was anything more than an opinion.
Abhorrent and unnatural by what standard and according to whom.
[/quote]
According to mores and norms of our society dating back thousands of years.
[quote]
I will ignore the word “abhorrent” because its place in this discussion is self-evidently inappropriate and fatuous. I don’t care what you find disgusting and neither does anyone else. [/quote]
As I said before, it’s not my opinion it’s based on what our society believes and has believed for thousands of years.
And I’ll ignore that. The fact is the homosexual agenda is not about equal rights. Most gays don’t want to marry or live in monogamous relationships. For the gay rights lobby gay “marriage” is merely a vehicle to attack traditional marriage and monogamy.
[quote]
Unnatural: again, this will come as news to the millions of people who have an extremely strong and extremely natural urge to engage in homosexual activity.[/quote]
Dude, did you read anything I said about this before? Read my previous post where I provide a number of definitions of “unnatural.” It would come as a surprise to them that homosexual activity is considered ‘inconsistent’ with our social norms? It would come as a surprise to them that it’s ‘not in accordance with accepted standards of behaviour?’
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:<<< i’m an agnostic.[/quote]6 a one.
[/quote]
Not even close.
Atheists and the devout have something very important in common–an irrational, delusional, and in many ways arrogant belief that they know the unknowable. To aver that there is no God is just as ridiculous as to aver that He exists and I know just what He wants me to do.
It is difficult to believe that anyone can open their eyes and look around and not have the good sense to conclude, “I don’t know.”[/quote]There’s no way I can say this so as not to sound just insufferably arrogant which I promise you is NOT my intention. You are a dime a dozen dude. I have debated with I don’t how many deluded unbelievers just like you. Who live a life pickled in God’s certainty while declaring “I don’t know” under the guise of false humility. Elder Forlife is your champion and dare I say much better at it than you are.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[/quote]
I will ignore the word “abhorrent” because its place in this discussion is self-evidently inappropriate and fatuous. I don’t care what you find disgusting and neither does anyone else. And your personal bigotries are sure as hell not basis for legislation.
[/quote]
You shouldn’t ignore the word “abhorrent” because at least its a truthful statement as to why he opposes gay marriage. My belief is that the true, actual and sole reason the vast majority of people oppose gay marriage is because they find homosexuality abhorrent and they want to prevent the state’s supposed legitimization of the “homosexual agenda” by recognizing gay marriage. I’d prefer to fight the fight based on the real reasons driving the opposition rather than fake reasons concocted solely to avoid con-law problems.