[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Stalin actually did exactly that several times in the war. A number of times he basically lost his whole army and created another one. and even with 8 or 10 million in military casualties, their army was still far larger than ours at the end of the war.
And it wasn’t moral fortitude with the Russians who literally fought with machine guns aimed at their backs as well as their fronts.
[/quote]
I’ve gotta think he could only do it so many times. I mean it’s not like he had an endless supply of people that could fight. At some point I also have to imagine the Russians would of turned and fought the guns previously held to their backs. Even the Russian’s can only take so much.
[/quote]
Absolutely. But we would’ve had to have killed millions of them to even find out if he could pull off a repeat.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Again, like I said earlier, had the Russians/Soviet Union had the capabilities to take the U.S. they would of. [/quote]
Have to chime in again because of the sheer idiocy in this post- who knows, other children might be reading this.
That’s what all the US generals from Vietnam to the middle east theatres thought.
Yet they can, and they get stronger while doing it.
I spare you the Mao and Uncle Ho quotes, most guys know them already.
The Soviet Army of 45 is maybe the most powerful land army p4p ever assembled.
They laugh at US losses. Their soldiers ARE the best they ever were while many US troops are still rather green.
Stalin carved out a HUGE chunk out of Europe, do you think the allies did that happily? Of course, the soviets always kept on squinting westwards but thankfully never really pulled it off -again, thanks Einstein- because neutron beats soldier.
nobody is talking about a US invasion,supermoron.
We’re talking about the US of '45, tucking its tail after a soviet tide sweeps deep into France in about 2 weeks. Some BS peace would have been made and all forces would have abandoned red Europe. Meanwhile Churchill would be shitting himself.
You have NO idea how powerful the red army was, especially the essential tenacity to wage war while bleeding, something the US (thankfully) lacks.
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
The Soviet Army of 45 is maybe the most powerful land army p4p ever assembled. [/quote]
Good for them.
[quote]
They laugh at US losses. [/quote]
Good for them.
[quote]
Their soldiers ARE the best they ever were while many US troops are still rather green. [/quote]
… rather green, after years of war in the Pacific and Western Europe? And the replacement troops Russia is spitting out aren’t green?
They didn’t pull it off, wait for it, because U.S. and allied forced would of fucked them up.
Go fuck yourself.
[quote]
We’re talking about[/quote]
We’re not talking about anything. You’re talking out your ass.
[quote]
the US of '45, tucking its tail after a soviet tide sweeps deep into France in about 2 weeks. Some BS peace would have been made and all forces would have abandoned red Europe. Meanwhile Churchill would be shitting himself. [/quote]
FANTASY…
Garbage. If they were so strong they would of taken more. Like every other empire, ever.
[quote]BOSS wrote:
Hey little Nazi dude. I live in Carlsbad NM. Its a small town, I’m easy to find. Look for the big white Ram truck with Jackson MMA and Army Ranger sticker on the windshield. Come find me pkease, I’ll educated you. Seriously be a man and come find me.[/quote]
If you are talking to me I can assure you I’m no Nazi nor am I pro Russian in WW2. I’m only talking the logistics of trying to fight Russia at a specific point in time. Assuming that the Ranger sticker is yours I can only thank you for your service.[/quote]
He is talking to our resident Euro…who seems to have had boots on the ground in '45…or read a book or something.
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[/quote]
Nah Brah Russia is super awesome Brah. They da greatest brah!!
[quote]BOSS wrote:
Hey little Nazi dude. I live in Carlsbad NM. Its a small town, I’m easy to find. Look for the big white Ram truck with Jackson MMA and Army Ranger sticker on the windshield. Come find me pkease, I’ll educated you. Seriously be a man and come find me.[/quote]
Hahahaha I like it.
But it won’t happen, most “experts” on history seem to like to insult people over the internets…in other countries.
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[/quote]
If both my memory and sources were correct, we contributed something like 5% to their resources and nothing to their man-power. And that was really only at the end of the war and unreliable due to German U-boats.
I’m not claiming the Russians would have won the eastern front without us, but us shipping them some steel at the end of the war while they were taking millions of casualties ain’t exactly overwhelming reinforcement.
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[/quote]
Nah Brah Russia is super awesome Brah. They da greatest brah!![/quote]
Certainly not awesome. I’m actually divided on whether I think Stalin was the lesser of 2 evils.
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[/quote]
Nah Brah Russia is super awesome Brah. They da greatest brah!![/quote]
Certainly not awesome. I’m actually divided on whether I think Stalin was the lesser of 2 evils. [/quote]
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[/quote]
Nah Brah Russia is super awesome Brah. They da greatest brah!![/quote]
Certainly not awesome. I’m actually divided on whether I think Stalin was the lesser of 2 evils. [/quote]
Lol, that was directed at our German friend. [/quote]
I really hate that I’m on his side of the argument.
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[/quote]
Nah Brah Russia is super awesome Brah. They da greatest brah!![/quote]
Certainly not awesome. I’m actually divided on whether I think Stalin was the lesser of 2 evils. [/quote]
Lol, that was directed at our German friend. [/quote]
I really hate that I’m on his side of the argument.[/quote]
At least you’ve made several informed well thought out points. He’s just writing a bunch of gibberish.
[quote]2busy wrote:
Russia won with “some” support?
From General Zhukov…
Zhukov:
“It is now said that the Allies never helped us . . . However, one cannot deny that the Americans gave us so much material, without which we could not have formed our reserves and could not have continued the war . . . we had no explosives and powder. There was none to equip rifle bullets. The Americans actually came to our assistance with powder and explosives. And how much sheet steel did they give us. We really could not have quickly put right our production of tanks if the Americans had not helped with steel. And today it seems as though we had all this ourselves in abundance.”
[/quote]
Nah Brah Russia is super awesome Brah. They da greatest brah!![/quote]
Certainly not awesome. I’m actually divided on whether I think Stalin was the lesser of 2 evils. [/quote]
Lol, that was directed at our German friend. [/quote]
I really hate that I’m on his side of the argument.[/quote]
Not really, he is speaking as if he was there to witness this great asswooping what was APPARENT.
You are simply saying it could have gone down that way, big diffie.
Joseph Stalin, during the Tehran Conference in 1943, acknowledged publicly the importance of American efforts during a dinner at the conference: “Without American production the United Nations [the Allies] could never have won the war.”
[quote]2busy wrote:
Joseph Stalin, during the Tehran Conference in 1943, acknowledged publicly the importance of American efforts during a dinner at the conference: “Without American production the United Nations [the Allies] could never have won the war.”
So Stalin lied?
[/quote]
I think you should go read my previous response again.
And for the record, I?m glad we only did the bare minimum to keep Russia afloat and fighting Nazis. I don?t think giving Stalin large amounts of arms or having US soldiers fight with the Russians would have been a good idea.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If both my memory and sources were correct, we contributed something like 5% to their resources and nothing to their man-power. And that was really only at the end of the war and unreliable due to German U-boats.
I’m not claiming the Russians would have won the eastern front without us, but us shipping them some steel at the end of the war while they were taking millions of casualties ain’t exactly overwhelming reinforcement.[/quote]
I think you should revisit your sources.
The USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but the war practically shut down rail equipment production: only about 92 locomotives were produced. 2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars were supplied under Lend-Lease. Likewise, the Soviet air force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).[18]
Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton and Studebaker 2½ ton were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations, and clothing were also critical.[19]
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If both my memory and sources were correct, we contributed something like 5% to their resources and nothing to their man-power. And that was really only at the end of the war and unreliable due to German U-boats.
I’m not claiming the Russians would have won the eastern front without us, but us shipping them some steel at the end of the war while they were taking millions of casualties ain’t exactly overwhelming reinforcement.[/quote]
I think you should revisit your sources.
The USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but the war practically shut down rail equipment production: only about 92 locomotives were produced. 2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars were supplied under Lend-Lease. Likewise, the Soviet air force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).[18]
Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton and Studebaker 2�½ ton were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations, and clothing were also critical.[19]
[/quote]
… in 1945…
Probably critical, but not overwhelming. Though that does look like more than what I remember. Any idea what the total % was?
I think a big thing that you guys are overlooking on your side of the argument is that a conflict between us and Russia may have been less savage. There may have been less fight in the Russians if allowed to do things like surrender. On the Eastern front neither side could surrender. Surrender meant you?d probably be tortured and killed or worked/starved to death. Giving the Russians the ability to surrender and not die horribly could have led to a very different type of war. But who the hell knows?