Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA)

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
pookie wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
We’re talking about “growth” in the biological sense of the term. I’m trying to appeal to the science - you know, the thing liberals claim to be in love with. How would you like it if we declared your age bracket “a mass of tissue” and aborted you?

How would you scientifically back that?

How would I back the idea that you’re a mass of tissue? I don’t think that idea needs any backing. You are a mass of tissue. We’re all a “mass of tissue.” [/quote]

Nu uh, we’re just a blob of cells.

82

[quote]pookie wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
How would I back the idea that you’re a mass of tissue? I don’t think that idea needs any backing. You are a mass of tissue. We’re all a “mass of tissue.”

Tonsils are masses of tissue. An appendix is also a mass of tissue. Do you plan to picket clinics who perform appendectomies any time soon?

All masses of human tissue are equal, after all.

[/quote]

You are a tissue then.

When does a human life begin? This is what we need to establish.

83

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
If you want to get techinical when does life occur to deserve the rights of a human being, once there is tissue differentiation. because at that point it is no longer a clump of cells, at what point is that since you are so fond of gestational periods. [/quote]

It’s still a clump of cells; just has more variety.

I’m rather partial to higher brain functions. It’s what distinguishes humans from lower life forms and Republicans. If you don’t have them, you’re just a lump of meat. (like Terry Schiavo, who died in 1990 but whose corpse was well-preserved until 2005).

Higher brain functions start to appear in the fetus during the 20th week, so that’s where my tolerance level ends.

85

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
pookie wrote:

All masses of human tissue are equal, after all.

Great. So why don’t we just nuke Canada? You masses of tissue are using our valuable oxygen. We have the military might to do it, why not? [/quote]

So I guess we’re now at the trainwreck portion of your argumentation?

I wish I could say it’s been thought-provoking, but your ideas could have used a lot more gestation.

86

[quote]pookie wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
If you want to get techinical when does life occur to deserve the rights of a human being, once there is tissue differentiation. because at that point it is no longer a clump of cells, at what point is that since you are so fond of gestational periods.

It’s still a clump of cells; just has more variety.

I’m rather partial to higher brain functions. It’s what distinguishes humans from lower life forms and Republicans. If you don’t have them, you’re just a lump of meat. (like Terry Schiavo, who died in 1990 but whose corpse was well-preserved until 2005).

Higher brain functions start to appear in the fetus during the 20th week, so that’s where my tolerance level ends.
[/quote]

What about really old people who are losing it, do they stop being people when they lose it?

There is no decernable break in the human life cycle except for conception and death. Do really drunk people who pass out cease being human until wake up? The brain shuts down the higher functioning centers in the case of too much alcohol. So they are by that definition, temporarily not human. It’s a very shallow definition. But I’ll take eliminating all abortions after 20 weeks as a good start.

87

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Great fuckin day in the morning, I honestly, seriously thought you were a smarter man (mass of tissue?) than this. Ideologically warped but nonetheless sharper than the butter knife in my kitchen drawer. Now I’m having to reevaluate that metaphor. You’re in the same bin as the spoons.[/quote]

Well, until you’re able to identify sarcasm and not mix up who’s making what point in an argument, why don’t you stay in your kitchen?

89

[quote]pookie wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
pookie wrote:

All masses of human tissue are equal, after all.

Great. So why don’t we just nuke Canada? You masses of tissue are using our valuable oxygen. We have the military might to do it, why not?

So I guess we’re now at the trainwreck portion of your argumentation?

I wish I could say it’s been thought-provoking, but your ideas could have used a lot more gestation.

[/quote]

Actually, I was just using your line of reasoning. Of course, I don’t believe even the unborn are “masses of tissue,” as you so callously do. I believe humanity begins at conception. But since you’ve arbitrarily determined the fetus becomes human at (which point, again?), I’ve decided I should be able to arbitrarily declare Canadians sub-human masses of tissue. Why? Well, I just find their existence inconvenient for Americans. We have a right to do what we want with our own bodies, after all.

90

[quote]pookie wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Great fuckin day in the morning, I honestly, seriously thought you were a smarter man (mass of tissue?) than this. Ideologically warped but nonetheless sharper than the butter knife in my kitchen drawer. Now I’m having to reevaluate that metaphor. You’re in the same bin as the spoons.

Well, until you’re able to identify sarcasm and not mix up who’s making what point in an argument,…
[/quote]

There’s the pot calling the kettle black.

91

[quote]Spry wrote:
Its your Bill of Rights.

You either afford EVERYONE ALL RIGHTS or you dont.

I was just commenting on the law.

I also stated that this law will not affect your right to make your own moral decisions.
[/quote]

I think the reason this is so confusing for you is because you believe our Bill of Rights contains something that it doesn’t.

There is no enumerated “right to privacy” in our bill of rights. I could see how, if you thought that existed, this could be confusing. It doesn’t exist.

The “right to bear arms” that you mentioned earlier actually does exist. It’s the 2nd Amendment and exists right there in plain English for everyone to read.

92

[quote]pushharder wrote:
When your compared a tonsil to a fetus you (apparently) were not being sarcastic. So don’t be backpedaling trying to say so.[/quote]

Did you miss the quoted part I was responding too? PrCalDud was the one arguing that “we’re all masses of tissues” implying that any mass of tissue has equal rights.

Great. Now I get to splash warm golden liquid all over you.

93

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I’ve decided I should be able to arbitrarily declare[/quote]

Arbitrarily? What happened to that science you mentioned somewhere before you lost your way?

94

[quote]pookie wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I’ve decided I should be able to arbitrarily declare

Arbitrarily? What happened to that science you mentioned somewhere before you lost your way?
[/quote]

Since the abortionists arbitrarily declare the infant a “human” when it breaks the plane of the vagina into the outside air, I’m going to make an arbitrary declaration of non-humanhood for all living Canadians. Equal amounts of science go into both decisions: none.

95

[quote]pat wrote:
What about really old people who are losing it, do they stop being people when they lose it?[/quote]

Depends on what you consider “people”. Was post-1990 Terry Schiavo “people”? If it makes other people happy to keep the body warm for years, fine. You’re not forcing someone to carry them around inside their body, right?

There’s no break at conception either. Living cells keep on living and start dividing.

No. If you wake them up forcefully, there’s still someone there.

You’re mixing being awake with higher brain functions. I’m pretty sure you’ll still see the wave patterns of higher brain functions if you plug them up. They’re drunk, not brain-dead.

I’ll get that law written and passed ASAP.

96

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Since the abortionists arbitrarily declare the infant a “human” when it breaks the plane of the vagina into the outside air, I’m going to make an arbitrary declaration of non-humanhood for all living Canadians. Equal amounts of science go into both decisions: none. [/quote]

Well, if your position is entirely arbitrary, who cares? I was waiting for you to back it up scientifically.

Figures.

97

[quote]pookie wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Since the abortionists arbitrarily declare the infant a “human” when it breaks the plane of the vagina into the outside air, I’m going to make an arbitrary declaration of non-humanhood for all living Canadians. Equal amounts of science go into both decisions: none.

Well, if your position is entirely arbitrary, who cares? I was waiting for you to back it up scientifically.

Figures.
[/quote]

LOl. You just can’t get it. Oh well.

98

[quote]pushharder wrote:
pookie wrote:
This should be such a fucking non-issue.

Against abortions? Don’t get one.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to get one either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

If you care about kids so much, there are millions of born kids who could use your help. Kids living in poverty; struggling with disease; waiting for good foster homes, etc. Why not help one of those kids?

Ah. Right. Because you could. That might entail time and/or money. Shit, better pretend these kids don’t exist. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Let’s waste time and energy on the unborn, for whom you can’t do shit even if you wanted to.

Man, I can’t wait for science to figure out how to transplant a fetus to a new body. I can already see the line-ups of pro-lifers who will be so willing to donate their uterus for six or seven months.

These should be such fucking non-issues.

Against murder? Don’t murder.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to murder either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Against theft? Don’t steal.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to steal either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Against rape? Don’t rape.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to rape either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Against reckless driving? Don’t recklessly drive.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to drive drunk either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Against pollution? Don’t pollute.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to pollute either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Against assault? Don’t assault.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to assault either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Against public drunkenness? Don’t drink in public.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to get drunk in public either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Against extortion? Don’t extort.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to extort either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

Pookie, sometimes you are one dumb sonofabitch. You have the reasoning and deductive abilities of of a fried eggplant. But deep down inside you already know that.
[/quote]

Thank you good sir. You just saved me 5 minutes of typing.

99

[quote]pookie wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
If you want to get techinical when does life occur to deserve the rights of a human being, once there is tissue differentiation. because at that point it is no longer a clump of cells, at what point is that since you are so fond of gestational periods.

It’s still a clump of cells; just has more variety.

I’m rather partial to higher brain functions. It’s what distinguishes humans from lower life forms and Republicans. If you don’t have them, you’re just a lump of meat. (like Terry Schiavo, who died in 1990 but whose corpse was well-preserved until 2005).

Higher brain functions start to appear in the fetus during the 20th week, so that’s where my tolerance level ends.
[/quote]

Well that all depends on what you call higher brain function, true the fissure formations of the cerebral cortex do not appear by fMRI until this point, but in reality, there are ganglion complexes that by definition would be considered higher level brain function that start formation around 7-8 weeks.

so do you alot the same rights to a rat as a developing fetus? They have higher brain functioning if that is what you are basing it on.

100

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

so do you alot the same rights to a rat as a developing fetus? They have higher brain functioning if that is what you are basing it on. [/quote]

Sorry, I don’t debate with PETA clowns.