Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA)

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]streamline wrote:
This act appears to me to be about the right to a safe abortion, anywhere in the USA. Since it is the right of a woman to choose, it is also her right to safe medical care. Exactly what is the problem with that.[/quote]

So driving a pair of scissors in to the skull of a partially born child is a safe procedure? For whom? Certainly not the kid?! Since the woman is in the act of giving birth, killing the child does not help her in anyway.
This act extends the act of terminating a human life beyond the womb, even the most adamant pro-abortionist would agree that a life exist outside the mother, would be a life.

42

Thanks to those of you who signed it…It is going to take a lot more, I am afraid, to keep the ensuing damage at bay, but this is a start.

43

[quote]MarvelGirl wrote:
As a woman, I have to disagree with that. I respect that many people feel abortion is absolutely murder, and I can’t imagine a human being keeping silent about something that they considered to be murder.

I’m pro choice because I think the alternative is worse. I’m not a fan of trash can babies or young frightened girls getting mangled by greedy psychos with coat hangers and broken bottles.

I think the FOCA is a step backwards though. Abortion IS legal, and to take away regulations that make it safer is ridiculous. I don’t see the point, and I don’t understand who it’s supposed to benefit.[/quote]

Good post. This is basically how I feel.

I’m pro-choice, but only because I despise the alternatives.

44

[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
more abortions = fewer liberals…in a perfect world

how can they call the conservatives heartless?

i thought obama was a christian?

But you say he’s a muslim?

i don’t recall saying that…personally i believe he is the anti-christ. I bet you he is.[/quote]

You’re wrong.

That moose hunting whore is the anti-christ.

45

[quote]Christine wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
more abortions = fewer liberals…in a perfect world

how can they call the conservatives heartless?

i thought obama was a christian?

But you say he’s a muslim?

i don’t recall saying that…personally i believe he is the anti-christ. I bet you he is.

You’re wrong.

That moose hunting whore is the anti-christ.[/quote]

Tell us how you really feel,Christine…

That brought a smile to my face.

46

[quote]Christine wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
more abortions = fewer liberals…in a perfect world

how can they call the conservatives heartless?

i thought obama was a christian?

But you say he’s a muslim?

i don’t recall saying that…personally i believe he is the anti-christ. I bet you he is.

You’re wrong.

That moose hunting whore is the anti-christ.[/quote]

how inept, so she hunts moose.

And what exactly makes her a whore?

47

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Christine wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Standard Donkey wrote:
more abortions = fewer liberals…in a perfect world

how can they call the conservatives heartless?

i thought obama was a christian?

But you say he’s a muslim?

i don’t recall saying that…personally i believe he is the anti-christ. I bet you he is.

You’re wrong.

That moose hunting whore is the anti-christ.

how inept, so she hunts moose.

And what exactly makes her a whore?

[/quote]

Really, just being a politician makes her a whore.

48

[quote]MarvelGirl wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
Unless you have a vagina, you have zero right to an opinion on this topic.

Regardless if your pro-life or pro-choice, no vagina = no opinion.

As a woman, I have to disagree with that. I respect that many people feel abortion is absolutely murder, and I can’t imagine a human being keeping silent about something that they considered to be murder.

I’m pro choice because I think the alternative is worse. I’m not a fan of trash can babies or young frightened girls getting mangled by greedy psychos with coat hangers and broken bottles.

I think the FOCA is a step backwards though. Abortion IS legal, and to take away regulations that make it safer is ridiculous. I don’t see the point, and I don’t understand who it’s supposed to benefit.[/quote]

Damnit all to hell, here we go again…

I am in full agreement with both jsbrook and MarvelGirl. FOCA doesn’t help women, goes beyond govt authority through the commerce clause, and is a major fuck up.

Bonus points to MarvelGirl for understanding and respecting why people against abortion are so vocal. It would help if more people were like that, and that’s one reason I respect you. Passionate but civil debate is only possible with people like you, who understand WHY it is so important, even if you disagree vehemently with the opposition’s positions. It IS a core issue and something that, if one is opposed to it, demands action. Same for people for it. The level of argumentation here is sad.

To whoever said on the first page ‘why don’t conservatives talk about personal responsibility’… FYI, that’s ALL i hear conservatives talk about, even if their conclusions/positions are out of whack. That’s their fundamental talking point, at least in the last 10 years I’ve been aware enough to listen to these debates.

Now, back to the regularly scheduled penis waving…

49

[quote]streamline wrote:
oneforship wrote:
streamline wrote:
Maybe you should read the full text version. Not the Pro-life edition, which you all must be members of high standing. This is a “Right for Women”, so when did you all start wearing skirts.

Oh wait, you mean men can’t have abortions? Shit I had it all wrong.

The word male/man/men is not mentioned in the act. You may influence her decision as her partner. You may not however make it for her. Her body equals her right to decide.[/quote]

Yea but its not her body she’s killing, it’s the baby’s you dumb ass.

50

This should be such a fucking non-issue.

Against abortions? Don’t get one.

There. See how easy that is? Don’t want other people to get them either? Well, why don’t you let them decide what they want for themselves. Nobody forces their decisions on anyone else and everyone live and let live.

If you care about kids so much, there are millions of born kids who could use your help. Kids living in poverty; struggling with disease; waiting for good foster homes, etc. Why not help one of those kids?

Ah. Right. Because you could. That might entail time and/or money. Shit, better pretend these kids don’t exist. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Let’s waste time and energy on the unborn, for whom you can’t do shit even if you wanted to.

Man, I can’t wait for science to figure out how to transplant a fetus to a new body. I can already see the line-ups of pro-lifers who will be so willing to donate their uterus for six or seven months.

51

[quote]pat wrote:
And THIS, is the main reason I detest that piece of shit Obama:

FOCA Would Wipe Away Every Restriction on Abortion Nationwide
This would eradicate state and federal laws that the majority of Americans support, such as:

-Bans on Partial Birth Abortion
-Requirements that women be given information about the risks of getting an abortion
-Only licensed physicians can perform abortions
-Parents must be informed and give consent to their minor daughter’s abortion
-FOCA would erase these laws and prevent states from enacting similar protective measures in the future

“With a single stroke of the pen, the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) would establish the right to abortion as a fundamental right (like the right to free speech) and wipe away every restriction on abortion nationwide.”

"The first thing I?d do as President is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. - Barrack Obama

What an asshole.

Here is the on-line petition.

[/quote]

I guess another question has to be, in light of your “blacks and abortion” post, is, “Why is Obama so hell-bent on facilitating the murder of unborn black people?”

52

Pookie, that is a ridiculous red herring argument and you know it. Many, many, many people who are pro life adopt kids, give to charities to feed and clothe kids, and volunteer time to sick kids. So also do people who are pro-choice.

53

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Pookie, that is a ridiculous red herring argument and you know it. Many, many, many people who are pro life adopt kids, give to charities to feed and clothe kids, and volunteer time to sick kids. So also do people who are pro-choice.[/quote]

How many threads about adopting and helping kids in need can you find on this board?

How about abortion threads?

I rest my case.

54

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Pookie, that is a ridiculous red herring argument and you know it. Many, many, many people who are pro life adopt kids, give to charities to feed and clothe kids, and volunteer time to sick kids. So also do people who are pro-choice. [/quote]

And many of the pro-life don’t. Your argument also is a ridiculous red herring, as you call it.

What I don’t understand is why so many religious fanatics are are so dead set against legalizing abortion and removing free-will. Without free will, without CHOICE, you cannot choose do to the right thing, and you can’t be saved.

The person who is forced to do “good” cannot be saved any more than a person who deliberately chooses evil.

No choice, no salvation. There is no denying this fundamental tenet of salvation.

55

[quote]yorik wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Pookie, that is a ridiculous red herring argument and you know it. Many, many, many people who are pro life adopt kids, give to charities to feed and clothe kids, and volunteer time to sick kids. So also do people who are pro-choice.

And many of the pro-life don’t. Your argument also is a ridiculous red herring, as you call it.

What I don’t understand is why so many religious fanatics are are so dead set against legalizing abortion and removing free-will. Without free will, without CHOICE, you cannot choose do to the right thing, and you can’t be saved.

The person who is forced to do “good” cannot be saved any more than a person who deliberately chooses evil.

No choice, no salvation. There is no denying this fundamental tenet of salvation.
[/quote]

Along the same line of argumentation, would you advocate legalizing murder and theft? I mean, we who wants the drudgery of having to not murder someone because you’ll get put in jail for doing so?

56

[quote]yorik wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Pookie, that is a ridiculous red herring argument and you know it. Many, many, many people who are pro life adopt kids, give to charities to feed and clothe kids, and volunteer time to sick kids. So also do people who are pro-choice.

And many of the pro-life don’t. Your argument also is a ridiculous red herring, as you call it.

What I don’t understand is why so many religious fanatics are are so dead set against legalizing abortion and removing free-will. Without free will, without CHOICE, you cannot choose do to the right thing, and you can’t be saved.

The person who is forced to do “good” cannot be saved any more than a person who deliberately chooses evil.

No choice, no salvation. There is no denying this fundamental tenet of salvation.
[/quote]

In the broad sense I couldn’t agree with you more. I don’t want a country where abortion is illegal. I’d prefer one where the question didn’t even have to come up because the citizens would be horrified at the prospect of killing their own children.

58

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Unless you have a vagina, you have zero right to an opinion on this topic.

Regardless if your pro-life or pro-choice, no vagina = no opinion.[/quote]

So let me get this straight. I have to have a vagina to hold an opinion on the killing of an innocent child? Is that your argument?

59

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

So let me get this straight. I have to have a vagina to hold an opinion on the killing of an innocent child? Is that your argument?

[/quote]

Okay, first off if you kept reading, I apologized for being a douche bag and not intelligently explaining what I meant, and then dropped it, because no one is going to agree with me, and rather than rile anyone up more than they already are. But here goes.

Regardless of my personal feelings of abortion, I don’t, nor could I ever understand that choice. I will never be able to comprehend the emotional and physical changes that a woman goes through from conception until the day she dies. Because of that, I have no place to tell her what she CAN or CANNOT do. I can tell her how I feel or what I think, but I cannot have an opinion on whether or not she can make that choice or not. It’s just not my place, regardless of how I feel.

The law in question is poor as written. But a law with the opposite view would also be poor, and equally if not more dangerous.

60

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
bigflamer wrote:

So let me get this straight. I have to have a vagina to hold an opinion on the killing of an innocent child? Is that your argument?

Okay, first off if you kept reading, I apologized for being a douche bag and not intelligently explaining what I meant, and then dropped it, because no one is going to agree with me, and rather than rile anyone up more than they already are. But here goes.

Regardless of my personal feelings of abortion, I don’t, nor could I ever understand that choice. I will never be able to comprehend the emotional and physical changes that a woman goes through from conception until the day she dies. Because of that, I have no place to tell her what she CAN or CANNOT do. I can tell her how I feel or what I think, but I cannot have an opinion on whether or not she can make that choice or not. It’s just not my place, regardless of how I feel.

The law in question is poor as written. But a law with the opposite view would also be poor, and equally if not more dangerous.
[/quote]

How would it be “equally if not more dangerous”?