[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Thirdly, the Communists were hell bent on exporting revolution around the globe, but was anything in their nature suicidal? Homicidal? Genocidal? Hell yeah…Suicidal? I don’t think so.[/quote]
As far as we know, the Iranians haven’t supported/assisted in any suicide bombings.[/quote]
Are you kidding me?
Plus I’m talking about suicidal Communists or lack thereof.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
This interesting though old article from 2007 touches on every possible angle:
It touches on the fact that Russia used child soldiers during WW2 and that apparently the children who fought in the Iran-Iraq war were volunteers + the claims of the Iranians forcing children/old men to advance in front of their troops may be false reporting/greatly exaggerated? Can you tell me where?[/quote]
Not sure what article you are talking about or what you are asking for. [/quote]
I asked you “First of all, are you going to dispute anything I wrote in the quote above?”
You responded with "This interesting though old article from 2007 touches on every possible angle:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...apocalypse.html "
Given that “anything I wrote” refers to my earlier post, where I talked about the fact that Russia used child soldiers in WWII and touched on the child soldiers used by Iran during the Iran/Iraq War, and that you wrote “touches on every possible angle”, I can only surmise that you meant the article touched on the fact that Russia used child soldiers in WWII and on the topic of child soldiers used by Iran during the Iran/Iraq War.
Alas, I couldn’t find the information within the article.
So, I’m left to wonder… Did Gkhan even ever respond to my post at all or what?
[quote]magick wrote:
Uh, that post doesn’t mention Russians or Communists.
[/quote]
Yes I know. So what’s the point of it? I said above that the Communists are pro-revolution and anti-suicidal, so unless you could point me in the direction of a Christian group who is actively trying to bring about the apocalypse, other than what was already stated by Varq, what exactly is the point? That the Christians believe in the end of the world according to the Bible? Meaning what exactly?
[quote]magick wrote:
Given that “anything I wrote” refers to my earlier post, where I talked about the fact that Russia used child soldiers in WWII and touched on the child soldiers used by Iran during the Iran/Iraq War, and that you wrote “touches on every possible angle”, I can only surmise that you meant the article touched on the fact that Russia used child soldiers in WWII and on the topic of child soldiers used by Iran during the Iran/Iraq War.
Alas, I couldn’t find the information within the article.
So, I’m left to wonder… Did Gkhan even ever respond to my post at all or what?[/quote]
I see. The topic of Iran using child soldiers WAS addressed in the article.
So what if the Russians used child soldiers during WWII. Does that mean they are part of an apocalyptic cult that possibly is trying to bring about the return of their Messiah figure?
You told me to compare the Soviets or Communists to the Iranian regime. I have done so. One was anti-religious and promoting a global revolution, the other is a theocracy promoting a global Islamic revolution. One’s nature is to change mankind, the other’s nature is to convert or kill mankind and if the difference is lost on you I’m sorry.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Not all that impressed with the feigned ignorance here by a few posters about Islamo-fascism and the KNOWN craziness of a religion that’s off the tracks all over the world with its lunacy and therefore its potential threats.
Varq and Magick, do you really think the Muslims stirring up so much mayhem worldwide are just about like the Presbyterians that live next door to you in Peoria?
[/quote]
No, but we are not talking about “Muslims stirring up so much mayhem worldwide”. We are talking about the political and military leadership of the Islamic Republic of Iran. These are not lunatics, these are cold, calculating individuals who are just as skilful at playing chess (the word “checkmate” comes from shah-mat, which happens to be a Persian word) as anyone in the State Department, the Pentagon or the White House.
Do they believe they have God on their side? Sure. So do religious people in the State Department, the Pentagon, and even the White House (although I have no idea what our current president’s personal religious beliefs are).
Do they use religion to stir up the masses? Absolutely. Every leader of every warlike country in the history of the world has used religion to rouse the rabble, from Moses to Xerxes to Hitler to Saddam Hussein to George W. Bush.
Kudos, by the way, for picking one of the least-offensive denominations of Protestant Christianity to contrast against your image of ululating, suicide vest-wearing radical militant islam. Most Presbyterians don’t obsess over eschatology like other denominations do.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Yes I know. So what’s the point of it? I said above that the Communists are pro-revolution and anti-suicidal, so unless you could point me in the direction of a Christian group who is actively trying to bring about the apocalypse, other than what was already stated by Varq, what exactly is the point? That the Christians believe in the end of the world according to the Bible? Meaning what exactly?
[/quote]
Meaning that the fervent support for Israel that many Christians profess is based on the implicit belief that the Jews are still the chosen people of God, and that Israel will literally be the battlefield for the final war between Good and Evil on our planet (Tel Megiddo, otherwise known as “Armageddon”, is a ruined fortress on a hill in northwest Israel). Many believe that the Messiah will not return until all of the Jews are back in Israel, and the Temple of Solomon is restored.
If you’re looking to be pointed in a direction, then I point you in the direction of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, and their respective flocks. How many millions of dollars have these individuals raised to further the cause of Zionism? How much influence have they exerted on the United States government to further the interests of Israel?
The irony is, of course, that these people also believe that the Apocalypse, for which they so fervently pray, is to be preceded by the death or conversion to Christianity of all of the Jews they had ostensibly been supporting.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Thirdly, the Communists were hell bent on exporting revolution around the globe, but was anything in their nature suicidal? Homicidal? Genocidal? Hell yeah…Suicidal? I don’t think so.[/quote]
As far as we know, the Iranians haven’t supported/assisted in any suicide bombings.[/quote]
Are you kidding me?
Plus I’m talking about suicidal Communists or lack thereof.[/quote]
On that link, there is a reference to this article:
In which there is this statement:
“In Lebanon in the 1980s, of those suicide attackers, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists. Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians.”
So.
Also:
[i]The world leader in suicide terrorism is a group that you may not be familiar with: the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.
This is a Marxist group, a completely secular group that draws from the Hindu families of the Tamil regions of the country. They invented the famous suicide vest for their suicide assassination of Rajiv Ghandi in May 1991. The Palestinians got the idea of the suicide vest from the Tamil Tigers.[/i]
and
The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland.
and
If Islamic fundamentalism were the pivotal factor, then we should see some of the largest Islamic fundamentalist countries in the world, like Iran, which has 70 million people–three times the population of Iraq and three times the population of Saudi Arabia–with some of the most active groups in suicide terrorism against the United States. However, there has never been an al-Qaeda suicide terrorist from Iran, and we have no evidence that there are any suicide terrorists in Iraq from Iran.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Are you kidding me?
Plus I’m talking about suicidal Communists or lack thereof.[/quote]
=(
I forgot about Hezbollah. I’m sorry, that was a poor statement on my part.
As for suicidal commies- Varqanir wrote something about that.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Yes I know. So what’s the point of it? I said above that the Communists are pro-revolution and anti-suicidal, so unless you could point me in the direction of a Christian group who is actively trying to bring about the apocalypse, other than what was already stated by Varq, what exactly is the point? That the Christians believe in the end of the world according to the Bible? Meaning what exactly?
[/quote]
I wanted to at least bring up the point that Christianity has an apocalyptic element included in it as well in response to Pushharder’s post.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
So what if the Russians used child soldiers during WWII. Does that mean they are part of an apocalyptic cult that possibly is trying to bring about the return of their Messiah figure? [/quote]
You wrote-
“Because, as Sting said “The Russians love their children too”. (or some crap), while the Iranians used children to clear minefields.”
You essentially implied that the Iranians are worse than the Russians because the Iranians used children in warfare. I am saying that the Russians also used children in warfare, thus bringing your implication into question. If we go by what you implied, then the Russians must be as bad as the Iranians.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
You told me to compare the Soviets or Communists to the Iranian regime. I have done so. One was anti-religious and promoting a global revolution, the other is a theocracy promoting a global Islamic revolution. One’s nature is to change mankind, the other’s nature is to convert or kill mankind and if the difference is lost on you I’m sorry.[/quote]
…
Random off-topic thing-
Varqanir, just how do you have such a broad base of knowledge, and think in such an eclectic manner in general?
You’re probably the first, and hopefully last, person whose every single post leaves me in awe.
Seriously, you scare me.
[quote]magick wrote:
Random off-topic thing-
Varqanir, just how do you have such a broad base of knowledge, and think in such an eclectic manner in general?
[/quote]
Dude probably has a library card.
[quote]BeefEater wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
Random off-topic thing-
Varqanir, just how do you have such a broad base of knowledge, and think in such an eclectic manner in general?
[/quote]
Dude probably has a library card.[/quote]
Well, yes, but more relevantly, I have an insatiable curiosity, a skeptical mind, and access to a lot of information.
As I said before on a different thread: some people know a lot about professional sports or video games. I have no interest in either, so I learn about other stuff instead.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Of the two religions, only one is a majority in a country possessing a substantial nuclear arsenal.
[/quote]
And your implication is?
Are you going to scratch your head in wonder about which religion might be more dangerous?[/quote]
No, I consider the religions themselves pretty equivalent in intrinsic “dangerousness”.
As for the countries? Honestly, I think we have more to fear from our own government than we do from the Iranian government.
Yes.
I mean, I assume you’re only playing dumb.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
No one like the Iranians stirs up so much mayhem. No one. They have the North Koreans, the Taliban and even ISIS beat all to hell.[/quote]
And how does one measure “mayhem”?
Number of women and children killed and maimed? Number of civilian buildings bombed?
Iran has everyone else in the world beat in that regard?
Everyone?
Really?
Strange then, that we have been wasting so much time, money and energy on Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, if the Iranian government was the much bigger threat.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
If you’re looking to be pointed in a direction, then I point you in the direction of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, and their respective flocks. How many millions of dollars have these individuals raised to further the cause of Zionism? How much influence have they exerted on the United States government to further the interests of Israel?
[/quote]
Even so, these people are not our rulers. I am not bound by the government to be converted to a Southern Baptist under the pain of death.
To paraphrase Joseph Stalin:
“How many divisions does Pat Robertson have?”
or suicide bombers, for that matter?
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]theuofh wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Question I have is why are the Russian and Chinese allies and enemies of ours allowed to possess nuclear weapons while our allies and enemies of Russia are not. Let’s see, it’s cool that North Korea has the bomb, but let’s give nukes to Taiwan or Japan, or even Vietnam and see what hell breaks out. Russia is supporting the Iranians in their quest for nuclear power, but when the Soviet Union fell apart, we made damn sure that Ukraine didn’t keep their nukes. If we attempted to give them back now, Putin would threaten the destruction of the West or something. What’s your take on this? [/quote]
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.[/quote]
I may be mistaken on this, but I think the scientific/industrial nuclear capacity Iran has began with US support under the Shah.
Maybe Bismark could clarify?
[/quote]
Yes, it began in 1957 under Eisenhower’s Atoms for Peace.[/quote]
Iran was a very different place under the Shaw. They were progressive, open and free (comparatively, he was a dictator, but a nice one). and a strong U.S. ally up until 1979. Then the current illegitimate government took over.