Forcing Catholics to Support Birth Control?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Of course it’s what Christians do. They live consistently with their faith, Or perhaps, as well as their faith allows them. Among those consistent things are prayer, Bible study council meeting (if you hold a position), and community service and outreach. That wasn’t the point. The point i was making, and that others on this board can also see, is that you use it like advertising. Not in a matter of fact, this-is-what-I-was-doing way, but as a giant neon sign showing how much better you are at doing these things than everybody else. Advertising in the negative sense. Or, if you prefer, BRAGGING. It’s like the guy who name drops about all the people he knows constantly. That’s how it comes across whether you intend it that way or not. Every thread you mention the Faith, often more than once in the same thread. We get it. It’s old hat. And thats one of the things Sloth was referring to as “sandwich board” wearing.

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Claims to hold Sloth in very high regard[quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< and then proceeds to do what you have done repeatedly, >>>[/quote]Which would be_____________

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Claims to hold Sloth in very high regard[quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< and then proceeds to do what you have done repeatedly, >>>[/quote]Which would be_____________[/quote]

I ignored it the first time on purpose. You pull this kinda stuff all the time “i’m not going to go back through x thousands of posts/hundreds of pages/dozens of threads to pick exactly what you want me to reference because you can do it yourself”. Well you can do it yourself, it’s not hard, you can even read Sloth’s words again on why he put you on ignore. It is perfectly self evident and i see no reason to hop to your prodding because you can’t understand his perfectly clear meaning and words yourself, or because you don’t want to do the “footwork” of going back to the last couple pages yourself. I see no need to put words in his mouth in the first place because that is disrespectful and in any case he was perfectly clear. If you are so inclined you could even PM him and ask, assuming you really ARE confused. Perhaps he will answer, although at this point i doubt it.

Back on topic. Regarding the thread topic, i feel that push is probsbly right here sufiandy–premiums will go up, it just is a matter of how long or short a time until they do.

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:<<< You pull this kinda stuff all the time >>>[/quote]demanding that people document their accusations? Guilty as charged. Hasn’t happened yet though becuase it never has anything to do with accusations that do not exist.[quote]Aragorn wrote:<<<“i’m not going to go back through x thousands of posts/hundreds of pages/dozens of threads to pick exactly what you want me to reference because you can do it yourself”. Well you can do it yourself, it’s not hard, you can even read Sloth’s words again on why he put you on ignore. It is perfectly self evident and i see no reason to hop to your prodding because you can’t understand his perfectly clear meaning and words yourself, or because you don’t want to do the “footwork” of going back to the last couple pages yourself. I see no need to put words in his mouth in the first place because that is disrespectful and in any case he was perfectly clear. If you are so inclined you could even PM him and ask, assuming you really ARE confused. Perhaps he will answer, although at this point I doubt it. >>>[/quote] I asked you to produce what YOU said. I read what he said. Nobody disrespected him. He’s bummed because he jumped unforced with both feet into a giant bear trap. No I will not elaborate right now because I’m sittin on that until it’s most useful. That’s where people get into trouble. They’re impatient reactionary and impulsive. I’ll wait months before making a point a certain way or pursuing a certain line of dialog with somebody. I keep text documents for that very purpose. These are real people here and I take my time with them very seriously.

That doesn’t make him an idiot. Quite the contrary. I even said that he is much better than HIS BELIEF SYSTEM will allow. I said that about Pat as well only I can go back and find anything I say either myself or somebody else said. In fact I usually have it ready before I say it was said.

You will never ever catch me in a lie or misrepresentation. Not because I’m an intellectual colossus, but because I always say the same things and I tell the truth along with paying strict attention when people speak. It’s easy to not get caught when there’s nothing to get caught for. The struggle is staying in His Word and His presence to be sure that I practice all this precision for His glory and not just to win a fight. Yes, the old man is ever with me striving to drown my testimony to the King in my own carnal self exaltation. I always listen when someone accuses me of that one because there can be a fine line and they might be right. Yes, I also do love to win. Don’t you? There’s nothing inherently sinful about that as long as his gifts are used for His glory. People not recognizing it as such is no ipso facto indication that it isn’t though either.

I’ll address those passages in the other thread if you want me to btw. There’s no need for getting all upset and cursing and stuff like that. Go ahead if ya want, but you can ball me out calmly just as well and you’ll look better too.

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[quote]Menthol wrote:
As expected, the controversy over the Obama mandate is not dying down. And that makes sense as the contraceptives mentioned by the President are not free. Someone will be paying for them. In this case it will be insurance companies buying. And to obtain their money back, insurance firms will be charging Catholic institutions higher premiums. So in a sightly indirect way Catholic churches are paying. That is hardly a compromise.

“Groups rail against contraceptive coverage ‘mandate’ despite rule change”

My favorite was the presidential gag order on military chaplins reading the letters from the Bishops. I mean, what a fucking commie.

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Semi related: Catholic Churches no longer tax-exempt in Italy.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-16/italy-to-end-tax-breaks-on-church-enterprises-monti-says.html

Hoooooray!!

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Semi related: Catholic Churches no longer tax-exempt in Italy.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-16/italy-to-end-tax-breaks-on-church-enterprises-monti-says.html

Hoooooray!!

[/quote]

Why do you give a shit about taxes in Italy? This sounds like pure spite on your part…

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[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Semi related: Catholic Churches no longer tax-exempt in Italy.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-16/italy-to-end-tax-breaks-on-church-enterprises-monti-says.html

Hoooooray!!

[/quote]

Why do you give a shit about taxes in Italy? This sounds like pure spite on your part…[/quote]

I don’t particularly like some the Catholic church’s policies and I certainly do not want to see them get privileges.

It especially irks me that they for instance are sitting on a gold mine they refuse to sell when they preach to others to give until it hurts.

Did you know the Vatican is worth between 50 and 60 BILLION dollars? In your opinion, if Jesus came down tomorrow what do you think he would think of this?

Maybe I’m misinterpreting this passage, can you explain in your opinion what it means?

â??I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.â?? Matthew 19:23-24

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[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Semi related: Catholic Churches no longer tax-exempt in Italy.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-16/italy-to-end-tax-breaks-on-church-enterprises-monti-says.html

Hoooooray!!

[/quote]

Why do you give a shit about taxes in Italy? This sounds like pure spite on your part…[/quote]

I don’t particularly like some the Catholic church’s policies and I certainly do not want to see them get privileges.

It especially irks me that they for instance are sitting on a gold mine they refuse to sell when they preach to others to give until it hurts.

Did you know the Vatican is worth between 50 and 60 BILLION dollars? In your opinion, if Jesus came down tomorrow what do you think he would think of this?

Maybe I’m misinterpreting this passage, can you explain in your opinion what it means?

�¢??I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.�¢?? Matthew 19:23-24

[/quote]

I’m a long ways from being Catholic but this ^ is totally irrelevant.

[center]“…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”[/center]

THIS ^ is all that’s relevant. Everything else is a waste of oxygen and nitrogen.[/quote]

How does this make what I wrote irrelevant? Why are your quoting the American constitution for a law in Italy?

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Semi related: Catholic Churches no longer tax-exempt in Italy.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-16/italy-to-end-tax-breaks-on-church-enterprises-monti-says.html

Hoooooray!!

[/quote]

Why do you give a shit about taxes in Italy? This sounds like pure spite on your part…[/quote]

I don’t particularly like some the Catholic church’s policies and I certainly do not want to see them get privileges.

It especially irks me that they for instance are sitting on a gold mine they refuse to sell when they preach to others to give until it hurts.

Did you know the Vatican is worth between 50 and 60 BILLION dollars? In your opinion, if Jesus came down tomorrow what do you think he would think of this?

Maybe I’m misinterpreting this passage, can you explain in your opinion what it means?

â??I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.â?? Matthew 19:23-24

[/quote]

Sounds like you watched a Bill Mayer video movie thingy. I’d say that 50 - 60 billion dollar is a vast undervalue of the Vatican and it’s treasures.
Further, this said gold mine is also a country.

Second, Jesus, nor God through out the scriptures weren’t particularly hair lipped about being honored in opulent ways. The Vatican belongs to the church not a man. Anybody can go in and enjoy the Vatican. And why shouldn’t it be enjoyable? I see nothing wrong with it.

Lots of people are sitting on top of shit loads of wealth all over the world. Most of these are people in it for themselves. You think the clergy are rich? LOL! Those people get enough to live on and that’s about it. Everything else is borrowed, they don’t own shit.

Further, further, this significant wealth is also a savings. The church is the largest in the world it services over 1.2 billion people who are Catholic, it is also the largest charitable organization in the world by a huge margin. It is able to be that because of it’s wealth. It would be far less responsible to purge the wealth and then when the shit his the fan not able to provide the services it used to because it’s poor.

So what would you propose we do with it? Who do we sell it to? What then would we do with the money, give it to charity? We are charity.

I am curious about which policies you don’t like about the church, where you want to stick it to them?

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Semi related: Catholic Churches no longer tax-exempt in Italy.
[/quote]

Doesn’t sound like it.

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[quote]pat wrote:<<< Lots of people are sitting on top of shit loads of wealth all over the world. >>>[/quote]“Lots of people” aren’t claiming to be the one true holy apostolic church and bride of Christ while hording the most monstrous single store of treasure on Earth in direct defiance of the Lord’s command not to do that very thing. [quote]pat wrote:<<< Further, further, this significant wealth is also a savings. The church is the largest in the world it services over 1.2 billion people who are Catholic, it is also the largest charitable organization in the world by a huge margin. It is able to be that because of it’s wealth. >>>[/quote]OUTSTANDING!!! Then you can stop receiving tax payer dollars tomorrow. All the controversy in that regard goes away and we get a tax break to boot. EDITED out that last piece.

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Obama, the persecutor of Nuns. Real tough guy, that Obama.

http://sistersoflife.org/response-to-hhs-mandate

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Are any of you familiar with the Supreme Court decision Employment Division v. Smith?
If so, what is your opinion on how that case affects the legality of this mandate?