Force Against Iran

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]ZEB wrote:
You have shown yourself to be nothing more than a Bush hater. I will now ask you what I ask all those who do the “it’s blood for oil” song. Prove it!

How is the US or President Bush himself gaining from the Iraq war through oil? Really, you need to lay down some facts, or basically change your tune as you make not sense![/quote]

label me if you please I wont bother to make a case for something as unimportant as that. …

I do find it strange that each time one of the bush family has got into government he’s pursued the exact same career defining objectives. …

I dont know about the people who sing these songs but from what Ive read and seen most of the protesters in america are about as clueless as the war proponents about what they are protesting/supporting. …

we (the world) have a natural phenomina known as peak oil to contend with and it just so happens that america’s entire way of life needs a large amount of oil to survive… . its not just a coincidence that the us is friends with saudi arabia (the worlds largest exporter) and enemys with basically every other significant oil region in the world. …

102

Their is nothing you could do to stop making terrorists hate the western way of life. The funny thing is that much like the rest of the middle eastern ruling parties they don’t practice what they preach. They hate the western world yet indulge in everything the west has made so popular. You can apologize until you are blue in the face, you can appease them with aide or what have you. They will not stop until the infidels are wiped off the planet. They are fighting their own crusades, they just forgot it’s the 21st century.

103

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
WMD wrote:
doogie wrote:
Can one of you peacenik douchebags explain what the U.S. could do, short of everyone converting to Islam, to make the terrorists happy?

Send you and RJ to Iraq?

Yes, indeed, WMD you have hit the nail on the head. I would rather be a peacenik who claimed it then a warnik who talked the talk, but let others walk the walk. Oh, whats that doogie? You would rather stay and teach the schoolchildren… go home at night to your own children?

Those damn peaceniks, I hate those cowardly bastards![/quote]

Hey WMD and Elkhntr,

Have you douchebags been camping out in Crawford, protesting the war? Have you sent Moveon.org 50% of your net income?

If you think this war is wrong, that our soldiers are dying needlessly, and that we are just in it for the oil, what are you doing to stop it, other than hanging out on the internet?

You see I think the war is right, and it is happening. So pretty much all I have to do in order not to be a hypocrite is pay my taxes and vote Republican. I do a little more than that. I have bought two A/C units for the troops, I donated my last two income tax returns to military charities, and everytime there is a supply drive for the troops I drag my kids down to Wal-Mart to spend $50 or so for stuff the troops need.

You on the other hand think the war is morally wrong. That means you are obligated to try and stop it. So what are you doing? I’ll bet you paid your income taxes the last two years, hypocrites. I’ll bet you still drive an automobile instead of peddling everywhere you go. I’ll bet you still waste electricity while jerking off to Vroom’s picture on the computer.

104

BB,

no need to hesitate, I didn?t want to trick you into anything. My whole point was that yes, everyone stating “Iraq was all about the oil” is slightly, um, naive. But so is everyone, and I am trying to be polite here, that is unable to envision that the Bush administration might have given that a thought or two AND calls everyone that thinks that it might have played a role a left-wing-commie-pinko-liar.

Jeff,

off of your medication AGAIN?

And Zeb,

I don?t think Bush is a slightly brain damaged boy-scout, but apparently you do. They considered all the options concerning an Iraq invasion but noone mentioned the hyyyyyooge pink elephant in the middle of the room with the word oil tattoed on his forehead? This is the administration you voted for?

But as far as I remember, securing the oil wells was pretty high on the militaries list when they invaded Iraq. The main oil terminal in the persian gulf also seems to be heavily guarded. Mmmmmhhhh…

105

[quote]WMD wrote:

Well, ZEB does it all the time. Why isn’t anyone else allowed to?
[/quote]

No actually I don’t Ma’m. :slight_smile:

106

[quote]orion wrote:
no need to hesitate, I didn?t want to trick you into anything. My whole point was that yes, everyone stating “Iraq was all about the oil” is slightly, um, naive. But so is everyone, and I am trying to be polite here, that is unable to envision that the Bush administration might have given that a thought or two AND calls everyone that thinks that it might have played a role a left-wing-commie-pinko-liar.
[/quote]

When you defend your position, you say that oil played a part. Which is probably true. Not in the sense that you and the rest of the ABB crowd want to believe. It is about preserving our way of life. Sadly we have to have oil to do that.

But when you attack the pro-war crowd, you insinuate that G-Dub’s greed for Texas T has blinded him and his evil buddies.

Be consistent and quit trying to squirm out of your losing, unsupported postiton.

107

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
ZEB wrote:

label me if you please I wont bother to make a case for something as unimportant as that. …

I do find it strange that each time one of the bush family has got into government he’s pursued the exact same career defining objectives. …

I dont know about the people who sing these songs but from what Ive read and seen most of the protesters in america are about as clueless as the war proponents about what they are protesting/supporting. …

we (the world) have a natural phenomina known as peak oil to contend with and it just so happens that america’s entire way of life needs a large amount of oil to survive… . its not just a coincidence that the us is friends with saudi arabia (the worlds largest exporter) and enemys with basically every other significant oil region in the world. …
[/quote]

One more response from the “blood for oil” crowd and still no proof!

Bla bla bla…“Bush must have invaded Iraq because of oil…after all I hate him…” LOL

Post back with some proof…You know FACTS to support your ridiculous argument. Either that or drop it…

108

[quote]rainjack wrote:
We should have alrady kicked Iran’s ass twice by now. They have the whispers of political unrest and a growing affinity for democracy floating in the air. It probably wouldn’t take more than a little shove to topple the gov’t they have now.

I think that Syria should be leveled. That’s where the “insurgants” are coming from. I say kick the shit out of Syria, and put up a big freakin wall between them and Iraq. Then you’d see stability.[/quote]

Rainjack,
you need to get the facts before you speak. Iran is better then our friend the saudi’s in terms of treating women and human rights plus iran did not support 9/11 which saudi arabia did. If we look at irans situation you have iraq and afghanistan occupied by a hostile USA and israel which has nuclear weapons thretening attacks on it every day. If i was iran i want nuclear weapons to defend myself from this threat.

Most of the insurgents in iraq actualy come from saudi arabia and jordan as the us does not have any border controls here. Anyone can drive from jordan to iraq without any check whatsoever. Saudi arabia actually likes the struggle in iraq right now because all of it’s pesky islamo -terrorists can go fight the us there rather then cause trouble in saudi arabia.

109

[quote]doogie wrote:
Elkhntr1 wrote:
WMD wrote:
doogie wrote:
Can one of you peacenik douchebags explain what the U.S. could do, short of everyone converting to Islam, to make the terrorists happy?

Send you and RJ to Iraq?

Yes, indeed, WMD you have hit the nail on the head. I would rather be a peacenik who claimed it then a warnik who talked the talk, but let others walk the walk. Oh, whats that doogie? You would rather stay and teach the schoolchildren… go home at night to your own children?

Those damn peaceniks, I hate those cowardly bastards!

Hey WMD and Elkhntr,

Have you douchebags been camping out in Crawford, protesting the war? Have you sent Moveon.org 50% of your net income?

If you think this war is wrong, that our soldiers are dying needlessly, and that we are just in it for the oil, what are you doing to stop it, other than hanging out on the internet?

You see I think the war is right, and it is happening. So pretty much all I have to do in order not to be a hypocrite is pay my taxes and vote Republican. I do a little more than that. I have bought two A/C units for the troops, I donated my last two income tax returns to military charities, and everytime there is a supply drive for the troops I drag my kids down to Wal-Mart to spend $50 or so for stuff the troops need.

You on the other hand think the war is morally wrong. That means you are obligated to try and stop it. So what are you doing? I’ll bet you paid your income taxes the last two years, hypocrites. I’ll bet you still drive an automobile instead of peddling everywhere you go. I’ll bet you still waste electricity while jerking off to Vroom’s picture on the computer.
[/quote]

lol, owned.

110

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Their is nothing you could do to stop making terrorists hate the western way of life. The funny thing is that much like the rest of the middle eastern ruling parties they don’t practice what they preach. They hate the western world yet indulge in everything the west has made so popular. You can apologize until you are blue in the face, you can appease them with aide or what have you. They will not stop until the infidels are wiped off the planet. They are fighting their own crusades, they just forgot it’s the 21st century.[/quote]

As far as I was aware, the animosity towards the west has little to do with out way of life, and more to do with what is believed to be unjustified occupation/interference. They hate us either for being there, or helping the jews to defeat them. Makes a damn lot of sense. You would hate them too if they came over here pushing around the american government, or supporting cuba to the point where it could crush us.

In case anyone has forgotten, Osama Bin Laden (like castro) was put into power by the United States. He declared his call to arms because he wanted america out of saudi (leading up to 9/11). Didn’t work very well, but he is doing to us what america put him there to do to… the russians was it (I forget now)?

Iraq doesn’t like us because we are still there; a good part of the gulf dislikes the U.S. because of its support of Israel, not because we drive nice cars. To believe they hate our way of life is naive. They hate our involvement, whether justified on our part or not is irrelevant to their hatred. You cannot honestly be fooled into thinking this is not the case. They are not nearly as backwards as you have been lead to believe by the media.

And to the entire Muslim/jew feud. Thank the brits for that one. Israel was created post WW2 by the british by seizing land from the palestinians. Whether or not this was the ancestral home of the jewish people is not debated, it was and is. I am not saying the jews do not deserve a country of their own (because I support them fully/love them as a people and am myself both a jew and muslim) but if texas was seized by the mexicans and given to the puerto ricans, I think we would be pissed off too.

Many believe this move to have been made with the full intention of causing unrest, to destabilize forming governments and halt the development of countries within the middle east. Resources make a city/state/nation a successful one. Most civilizations founded near a plentiful resource became large and powerful. Why is it then that middle eastern countries, with their vast oil reserves and what would appear a stranglehold on the world’s energy supply, failed to develop into powerful players? Western involvement has done nothing but f*ck them over, can you not see why they hate us for it?

111

[quote]indra wrote:
rainjack wrote:
We should have alrady kicked Iran’s ass twice by now. They have the whispers of political unrest and a growing affinity for democracy floating in the air. It probably wouldn’t take more than a little shove to topple the gov’t they have now.

I think that Syria should be leveled. That’s where the “insurgants” are coming from. I say kick the shit out of Syria, and put up a big freakin wall between them and Iraq. Then you’d see stability.

Rainjack,
you need to get the facts before you speak. Iran is better then our friend the saudi’s in terms of treating women and human rights plus iran did not support 9/11 which saudi arabia did. If we look at irans situation you have iraq and afghanistan occupied by a hostile USA and israel which has nuclear weapons thretening attacks on it every day. If i was iran i want nuclear weapons to defend myself from this threat.

Most of the insurgents in iraq actualy come from saudi arabia and jordan as the us does not have any border controls here. Anyone can drive from jordan to iraq without any check whatsoever. Saudi arabia actually likes the struggle in iraq right now because all of it’s pesky islamo -terrorists can go fight the us there rather then cause trouble in saudi arabia.
[/quote]

Tell me where my facts are wrong. You didn’t do that. You just put on your Iranian cheerleeding outfit. That does nothing to prove that I am short on facts.

112

[quote]ZEB wrote:
One more response from the “blood for oil” crowd and still no proof!

Bla bla bla…“Bush must have invaded Iraq because of oil…after all I hate him…” LOL

Post back with some proof…You know FACTS to support your ridiculous argument. Either that or drop it…[/quote]forget bush Im surprised clinton didnt do it… . I dont know what Ive said that makes me out to be so vehemently anti bush… . but it would have happened democrat or republican leader or not. …[/quote]

facts eh? ok… . how about these facts?

america gets 75% of its oil from foreign countrys.

every year the US consumption goes up but its own domestic supplys dry up further

Iraq was invaded shortly after they started pricing their oil in Euros in stead of the US dollar

Iran has recently made an agreement with China for sales of its natural gas and oil

surely you can see that in a world economy where america is doing badly just keeping its head afloat the need for more energy to run the economy is an important issue… . when other economies such as china (who had a 9% gdp this year) decide that their expansion needs energy from the same sources that america currently enjoys you can imagine the friction this causes. …

what did you think would happen when oil starts running low? you think countrys would just go “nah we dont need this way of life you can have all the oil” no! instead we are going to see a lot of war… . your government wasnt lying when they said to “expect war for the remainder of your lives”

113

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
no need to hesitate, I didn?t want to trick you into anything. My whole point was that yes, everyone stating “Iraq was all about the oil” is slightly, um, naive. But so is everyone, and I am trying to be polite here, that is unable to envision that the Bush administration might have given that a thought or two AND calls everyone that thinks that it might have played a role a left-wing-commie-pinko-liar.

When you defend your position, you say that oil played a part. Which is probably true. Not in the sense that you and the rest of the ABB crowd want to believe. It is about preserving our way of life. Sadly we have to have oil to do that.

But when you attack the pro-war crowd, you insinuate that G-Dub’s greed for Texas T has blinded him and his evil buddies.

Be consistent and quit trying to squirm out of your losing, unsupported postiton. [/quote]

I am pretty consistent. I just think that there is more than one side to a problem. Hell, sometimes there might be even more than two.

You don?t want me to be consistent, you want me to live up to an american stereotype and me don?t wanna. You of all people should understand that I do not want to be a Jane Fonda like kumba-ya hippie freak. But I am also not going to join the Bush fan club soon.

You don?t even know my position on Iran or Iraq, because at the very first moment I mentioned some inconsistencies in your reasoning you trolled away. And as you should know by now I was oh so right and you were oh so wrong.

But I can ask again: USA violating international law is ok with you. If the Iranians do it, it is not.

You don?t think that that line of reasoning is not going to get you big support in the international community? And that international community is not going to be needed in the future, now that Americas forces are allready stretched pretty thin and that “war on terror” is not going to be over soon?

114

[quote]rainjack wrote:
indra wrote:
rainjack wrote:
We should have alrady kicked Iran’s ass twice by now. They have the whispers of political unrest and a growing affinity for democracy floating in the air. It probably wouldn’t take more than a little shove to topple the gov’t they have now.

I think that Syria should be leveled. That’s where the “insurgants” are coming from. I say kick the shit out of Syria, and put up a big freakin wall between them and Iraq. Then you’d see stability.

Rainjack,
you need to get the facts before you speak. Iran is better then our friend the saudi’s in terms of treating women and human rights plus iran did not support 9/11 which saudi arabia did. If we look at irans situation you have iraq and afghanistan occupied by a hostile USA and israel which has nuclear weapons thretening attacks on it every day. If i was iran i want nuclear weapons to defend myself from this threat.

Most of the insurgents in iraq actualy come from saudi arabia and jordan as the us does not have any border controls here. Anyone can drive from jordan to iraq without any check whatsoever. Saudi arabia actually likes the struggle in iraq right now because all of it’s pesky islamo -terrorists can go fight the us there rather then cause trouble in saudi arabia.

Tell me where my facts are wrong. You didn’t do that. You just put on your Iranian cheerleeding outfit. That does nothing to prove that I am short on facts.[/quote]

You are wrong about syria and about iran, read the message.

How anyone with a brain can believe Bush is beyond me, he lied about the invasion of iraq and lied about september 11th.
Iraq was lead by a brutal, homocidal maniac but was no threat to USA, had NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION as confrimed by the UN weapons committee and HATED OSAMA BIN LADEN.

Lets look at saudi arabia, it’s ideology is exactly the same as bin laden, it gave money and still does to bin laden, it sends insurgents to iraq to kill american troops and is trying to acquire nuclear weapons. It has a worse human rights record then iran. Other brutal dictatorships supported by the US include pakistan, uzbekistan, tajikistan, kuwait etc.

Your focus on iran is misplaced and if anything the US should be invading saudi arabia but bush would never do that because he makes money out of them.

115

Indra, as far as saudi and Iran having to do with 9/11, keep in mind although a majority were saudi’s they all obtained visas and traveled through iran. JohnGalt you need to keep in mind that although binladen may want the infidel out of mecca, iran and its problems date back to the carter administrations inability(like all democrats) to handle an aggressor.

They do hate our way of life, they don’t like the fact that the average citizen has a say in government our that women have rights. Not to mention you just help emphasize my point of these prehistoric retards still fighting a crusade that ended roughly 600 years ago.

Much like a jail inmate, we give them what they want i.e. the gaza strip and they still want more. All you people who sympathize for the extremists(LIBERALS) don’t think for a minute these people wouldn’t saw your head off and hold it up for al-terroisteera or jazeera or whatever.

I’m just glad MY president isn’t afraid to take action, god forbid canada or france was attacked and I was a citizen of one of those countries. Well I mean france did take action against that rouge nation the ivory coast a few months back.

116

[quote]orion wrote:
But I can ask again: USA violating international law is ok with you. If the Iranians do it, it is not.[/quote]

Went went to Iraq with a UN resolution in our hands. Hardly a violation of law. And which international court has indicted the US? Just because you wish really hard for something to be true doesn’t make it so.

[quote]
You don?t think that that line of reasoning is not going to get you big support in the international community? And that international community is not going to be needed in the future, now that Americas forces are allready stretched pretty thin and that “war on terror” is not going to be over soon? [/quote]

Define “International Community”. My bet is you think it means Western Europe. Western Europe has been in the back seat since the end of the cold war. You guys really don’t matter all that much anymore on the world stage - especially when you are against us. Your credibility wrt telling us what to do in the WOT is nil in the light the the OFF scandal and the greed displayed by some of your fellow EUers.?

That’s just my opinion.

117

Snipe, perhaps you didn’t mean what you wrote, but you implied simply killing hundreds of millions of innocent people.

See, the problem you and some others have, is realizing that there is a difference between a terrorist and an avaerage person who happens to live in that region.

Nobody wants to apologize to or appease the terrorists, but avoiding the conversion of all those average citizens into bloodthirsty terrorists is itself something worth considering.

You can’t create fervent enemies out of hundreds of millions of people, decimate an entire region and population if you still want to be considered somewhat human.

Now, if what you really meant is that the military should go into some places and perhaps do to them what is being done to Iraq, perhaps you should scroll up and find my thoughts on Iran before you presume to lecture me on the topic.

Snipe, meet clue.

118

How is it your “proof” is nothing more than your own opinion?

You have offered nothing to counter what I have said.

we should have kicked the shit out of Iran in the late 1970’s. And we should have kicked the shit out of them the second they started waving nukes in everyone’s face. Tell me where I am wrong, junior. I have asked you twice now, and you continue to spout rhetoric. either bring proof with you, or stay on the porch.

Can you honestly say that a tighter border between Syria and Iraq would not make Iraq safer? The reports i read say the influx of “insurgents” is crossing from Syria.

Just use a couple of facts to prove me wrong - you don’t really seem to know what fact is, or where to find one.

119

[quote]JohnGalt wrote:

In case anyone has forgotten, Osama Bin Laden (like castro) was put into power by the United States. [/quote]

Just so we’re clear, Castro came to power without foreign intervention, it was a popular revolution. The USSR didn’t come into the picture until a couple of years later (1961 I think, but I’m too lazy to look it up).

120

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
I dont know what Ive said that makes me out to be so vehemently anti bush… . but it would have happened democrat or republican leader or not. …

facts eh? ok… . how about these facts?

america gets 75% of its oil from foreign countrys.

every year the US consumption goes up but its own domestic supplys dry up further

Iraq was invaded shortly after they started pricing their oil in Euros in stead of the US dollar

Iran has recently made an agreement with China for sales of its natural gas and oil

surely you can see that in a world economy where america is doing badly just keeping its head afloat the need for more energy to run the economy is an important issue… . when other economies such as china (who had a 9% gdp this year) decide that their expansion needs energy from the same sources that america currently enjoys you can imagine the friction this causes. …

what did you think would happen when oil starts running low? you think countrys would just go “nah we dont need this way of life you can have all the oil” no! instead we are going to see a lot of war… . your government wasnt lying when they said to “expect war for the remainder of your lives”[/quote]

You continue to make assertions. Simply because we are an oil consuming society you cast these aspersions. Why don’t you try to tie some hard facts to the accusations.

When you claim that “it’s about Oil” you need to support that claim with some proof. I know it looks clear to you, that5’s obvious. But…it’s not clear to the rest of us who are not anti Bush. I would defend Clinton the same way if he was President.

Again, anyone can say anything about any situation. You have done no more than offer certain speculation. You can believe that all you want. However, that does not make it true!

That is simply your perception and no more!