I believe this is the goal for non-STEM majors (I am an engineer, so I appreciate the math). However, I would rather see the basic math course changed into something like “math for establishing family finances”. A course where they teach practical math skills (accounting, budgeting, how loans and taxes work) would be more useful to the majority of people. If more folks understood credit cards, car loans, and more at an early age, maybe the debt burden wouldn’t be so huge.
One guy I knew in college was studying engineering and he didn’t understand loans…it was a bit of a scary realization. He graduated with his degree knowing advanced math but not the basics of finance.
I’d actually have to agree with you on that. I finished post grad and knew almost nothing about proper procedure for taxes. Granted the tax system, procedures, and laws where I’m from is shit…But still. Anyway, good point.
Because in reality it is. Assuming the money has to come from somewhere.
There seems to be this shared illusion around socialist programs like utilities, schools, military, etc that as long as the socialism predates people’s lifespans, they don’t even seem to be able to understand that it’s socialism.
Social college is a fuckin kids game compared to our socialized utilities, but even the ancaps don’t actually want capitalist electric bills
The most important mathematical concept I learned was compounding interest. The rich benefit from it (or are rich because of it), the poor are slaves to it.
I don’t think more people will have degrees since you still need to have the grades and test scores to get into college and then do the work to graduate. You would just have fewer grads in debt.
Don’t you think that there are people with the grades and work ethic to get a college degree, but do not have the money, or the willingness to go into debt? I believe this group exists, and if college were free, they would go.
Given the number of idiots who go to college and the number of people who are indeed willing to go into debt, I don’t think there are many who avoid college for lack of funds or fear of debt.
I would like to see free college with the caveat that the requirements to get into college are going to be more difficult to reach. The only dummies who will be able to get degrees are rich dummies.
I am arguing that some additional people will attend if it is free. You say you don’t think that there are “many”. That statement is recognizing that some amount of people will now attend and graduate, that would not have before.
I said above that it will be marginal. Thinking on the margin is key here. Maybe only 1 percent more graduates per year in a field is enough to have a glut of people with that expertise.
BTW, I believe reform in this area is needed in the US, but care needs to be taken to not do to much to fast. I think starting with free 2 year education is a better start, and then we can observe the impacts to the labor market over a few years and adjust.
BTW, I failed algebra 2 in high school due to not doing the work. I probably would not make it into the university under your system. In college, I got all A’s in all my advanced mathematics classes, and graduated with a 3.3 gpa in Mechanical Engineering. I had to go to community college first. I am just saying high school performance is a poor indicator of someone’s potential, and I would not want to judge everybody by that standard.
My sentiments exactly when you said earlier that it would have less value if offered for free. I think there’s a big chance these people would actually do better in life compared to someone who’s been served everything on a silver platter their whole life (of course it doesn’t apply to everyone). So yes, they may have the same degree, but work ethic will speak for itself in the future
We can debate about the wither the benefits from free college (especially to those in need) outweighs the devaluing of existing degrees.
I am all for grants that allow people who are in need to go to college. The benefit to society is greater than the cost to taxpayers, and the devaluing of existing degrees. However, I am not convinced that the benefit of across the board free tuition will outweigh the aforementioned tax payer costs and devaluing of existing degrees.
My sentiments too. We’re on the same page to be honest. If college were free for all, for sure there’d be a whole bunch of students that are just gonna waste time and do stupid things and ultimately just waste resources (i.e. taxpayer’s money). I was merely curious about where you were coming from when you mentioned devaluing
Free college is not the same as college for everyone. It also doesn’t mean that students no longer have to meet certain standards in order to remain in college.
Yes, agree with your second statement. Still though, they could be enrolled a few semesters and not reach requirements, still ultimately wasting resources.
If the same people who go to college now, and pay, are going to be the same who go to college but don’t pay, I don’t see how it would change anything. Maybe more people will try to get into college but it doesn’t mean more will be going to college.
I agree that it’s as socialist as public school… that’s why I keep using the word tongue in cheek. For the most part, public schools aren’t perceived to be socialist, but funding college is. That’s my issue… I just don’t see how one clearly is but the other clearly isn’t in some people’s minds.