You can slice it either way. TRT will not lower your TSH.
I would definitely put a stop to using the bleach. You have an immune system and its pointless trying create a sterile environment.
When I posted last a year ago, I couldn?t find a local doc who understood all this stuff. I knew I had some thyroid stuff going on, but didn?t know what I could do, when a normal doc would laugh at that thought.
I found a doc in Dothan, Alabama who supposedly understood this stuff. I made an appointment and had my blood work before going. I met with him about 5 weeks ago. When I met with him he didn?t have my thyroid labs yet, but I told him my symptoms and that I thought I had some thyroid issues (low body temp, skin changes, intermittent sleep problems, low libido, headaches, etc.). He wanted to run cortisol labs and thyroid labs and would change things from there. Updated labs below.
Total T 364.6 (300-800)
Free T 63.0 (46.0-224.0)
E2 59 (0-47.0) I have no idea why it was high, as you can see above it was always low.
Total Chol. 189 (100-199)
LDL 107 (0-99)
Triglycerides 67 (0-149)
Vit D 71.28
Glucose 90 (70-110)
Thyroid PE <6 (0-34)
Thyroglob <1 (0-0.9)
rT3 21.4 (9.2-24.1)
TSH 1.650 (.450-4.5)
T4 Free Direct 1.43 (.82-1.77)
Blood Pressure is usually 115-120/75-80ish. Im still around 175lbs, 5?-9?. Gains in strength have been slow but problems getting DL and PC up. Energy is normally decent and I never miss working out. Diet is same as above essentially, I get 2500-3000 calories usually in a day, around my BW or a little more in protein and around my BW in carbs and about 30% or so of calories in fat. I did add some carb powder pre and post workouts and feel my recovery is pretty good.
I still have low body temperature and the other thyroid symptoms mentioned in previous posts above. Im waiting on what the doc has to say about treating the thyroid. The nurse said if I had symptoms he would treat it, but he wanted to see my cortisol results first. I just got them, so am waiting to hear from him.
At my first visit about 5 weeks ago he started me on T @ 100mg per week, injected once per week plus ½ a pill of Anastrozole twice per week.
Id like to hear recommendations on the cortisol and thyroid and anything in general.
rT3 is elevated so we need to consider effects of stress which can be:
chronic infection/inflammation
every day stress
major stress events
surgeries
accidents
over training
starvation diets
Your been able to press on at the gym with your thyroid condition and low T is also a stress.
Really needed fT3
Here are my cortisol levels.
7am. .201 (.025-.600)
11am .116. (<.010-.330)
3pm .106 (.010-.200)
11pm .033 (<.010-.090)
How do these results look?
Do I need to be treating thyroid or is it stress? I have stress in my life of course, but I’m not a worrier an don’t feel stressed.
I think the doc will let me do fT3 labs. I have to re-do blood work in about a week and a half.
What is wrong with Labcorp?
Cortisol does seem low.
Labs posted were prior to any TRT?
your rT3 is high enough to be blocking some of your fT3, need that fT3 lab
and this will be part of the explaination of your low body temperature
- review stress concerns again, can also be from:
accidents
surgeries
chronic infection or inflammation
starvation diets
over-training
seekonk: see my comments re labcorp earlier in thread re E2 results
Ok, the Doc did run fT3 labs, but I didnt get them until last week. fT3 was 2.9 PG/ML. When I ran the ratio between fT3 and rT3 I got 13.1 which is low. Doc started me on Armour 30mg tabs, 1 1/2 per day. He is hoping I wont have to take them forever, so we will see.
As to what you posted last KSman, Ive been thinking about those things and reading. I played football and was involved in MMA stuff for quite a few years. Took a good bit of head shots and obviously been choked alot. Im wondering if that could be where the thyroid issues are coming from? Its been a real PIA trying to figure this stuff out, but it has been very educational and is interesting. Overall, I feel alot better and its funny because I didnt think I felt “bad” at all, just knew d/t symptoms something was going on. Now that I am feeling better, I realize after a couple years, you forget what feeling “good” is like.
We did new blood work last week to see what my T, E2 and CBC’s look like, and I should have those by Friday.
Any further input is appreciated, and thanks for all your help thus far.
Try self injecting T twice a week and take anastrozole at that time.
Do labs half way between injections.
More T4 means more T4–>rT3 some time with adrenal fatigue and T3 only is then what needs to be done.
With thyroid meds, monitor your waking and afternoon body temps.
KSman, 10-4 and thanks again.
Ok, here is my last blood work results and I am very confused. This is after 6 weeks of T administered IM.
T=320
E2=6.5
FreeT=8.7
I can explain the E2 being low as its always been low if you look at my old labs. I figured out why it was in the 50’s this Sept. I was taking some herbs and they elevated my BP so I thought they had to have also elevated E2. I got off the herbs and BP went back to normal and E2 went back to “normal” for me very low. Before this last blood work I hardly took the Anastraszole because I ASSumed I didnt need it.
My big question of course is why is my body not using the T?? I called the doctors office and got these labs friday but he hasnt called me back. I will bug them again tomorrow, but wondered your thoughts?
You asked for fT3 labwork?
Your temps are low, fT4 is above midrange.
I think that rT3 is blocking your fT3.
If you took T4 medication, you would get more T4–>rT3.
Please read the thyroid basics sticky noting references to adrenal fatigue, rT3 and Wilson’s book which you should read and avail at amazon. Cortisol labs also suggest adrenal fatigue. You simply push your body too hard.
You were on transdermal T and DHEA?
DHEA-S not tested?
Current temperatures?
KSman,
This is what I posted above as far as fT3: Ok, the Doc did run fT3 labs, but I didnt get them until last week. fT3 was 2.9 PG/ML. When I ran the ratio between fT3 and rT3 I got 13.1 which is low. Doc started me on Armour 30mg tabs, 1 1/2 per day. He is hoping I wont have to take them forever, so we will see.
I read Wilson’s book 2 years ago when I saw it recommended. I really do not have many of the symptoms he discusses in the book. He has a chart that you tick things off and I had some things that were what he calls “mixed”, but not a predominance of adrenal fatigue stuff as far as I could tell. My body temp was low a week ago. Been on the thyroid meds only a week, so I will recheck it, I didnt know how quick they would raise my body temp?
I have read the thyroid sticky about 3-4 times over the years havent in about 6 months, so I will read it again.
I take DHEA, 50mg. When it was tested in July 14 it was 200.5. I believe I read 300 is optimal?
I tried transdermal T 2 years ago and it did nothing. You or someone on hear had mentioned that was another indicator of thyroid problems. You nailed it 2 years back but I couldnt find a doc that bought into all this.
I read that taking dessicated thyroid was better, so I thought that was the way to go. He will let me change if I ask, so that shouldnt be a problem. What T4 med do you like?
So what you are saying is d/t the thyroid and cortisol/adrenal stuff that I am not taking in the T?
I really want to thank you for all that you and the other contributors do on this forum. You really provide a great service and provide a great amount of information. Whats really scary though, is even I know more about this stuff now than your average doctor, which is nuts.
dessicated thyroid is better because it has some T3
What you need to watch for is if more T4 leads to more T4–>rT3
DHEA can be poorly absorbed. Take with a meal that has more fats/oils and less fiber.
Take fish oil same way.
Midrange for fT3 is often higher than 2.9
What exactly is your T protocol and what was lab timing.
Timing with the August Labs or most recent? August labs were done with no TRT stuff going on. Most recent labs were taking T @ 100mg per week for 6 weeks and NO thyroid meds. Just started Armour a week ago.
I re-read most of Wilson’s book last night and think I was mistaken. No I dont have many of the symptoms in the book but I do have some symptoms that can also occur from low T or Thyroid issues (brain fog, headaches, low libido, etc). I do have alot of stress at home and have for a couple of years. Im not a worrier or a stressed out kind of person but realize that over time the continued stressors build up and have a cumulative affect. That would explain not responding to taking T would it not?
I take DHEA and fish oil in the morning after I have had a high fat, high protein, moderate carb meal. I also take fish oil at night after a high protein moderate fat, low-moderate carb meal.
T protocol for this 8 weeks has been 100mg of Test Cyp on Thursdays and 1/2 tab Anastrozole. My E2 has been low forever, so I didnt take the Anastrozole regulalry like he said and my most recent bloodwork confirms my E2 is bottomed out again. Doc’s nurse called yesterday and all she said was to increase T to 150mg per week. I dont see how pushing more T is going to help if 100mg did essentially nothing. She also made no mention of discontinuing Anastrozole which is insane and Im obviously not taking any of it. Im beginning to question his understanding of all this.
So now what???
Need to know timing of labs relative to prior weekly injection.
E2 is low because FT and TT are low.
So you need to inject more T. You may be a testosterone hyper-metabolizer.
You may need 200mg/week, we often see 300mg/week needed.
Your half-life of T is probably very short.
You should have been injecting twice a week, but that is essential now.
And injecting EOD is probably better for you.
Please try to always to labs half way between injections, so probably not done at doc’s office visit.
KSman,
Sorry I wasnt sure what you meant. I had blood drawn on a Friday. I took my last T shot the previous Thursday. T shot on 10/16, blood draw on 10/23.
10-4 I understand now. Did not know about possibly needing soo high a dose. Ill see if he will give me more needles. So is twice a week IM or Sub Cu?
Thanks again
SC or IM is really your choice re comfort. But SC means no muscle damage.
In most USA States you can get insulin needles without a script.
At Walmart/Sam’s ask for Relion house brand #29 0.5ml [50iu] 1/2" ~$14 per box of 100 and get prep pads.
Labs at day 7?8 simply show how low your T levels have fallen. See the problem?
KSman,
Thanks again and yes I see the problem with taking blood that far from an injection.
Do you think adrenals/stress is causing the thyroid stuff that I have going on?
I see these two opposing reaction in some cases.
One is were there are thyroid and temperature problems and guys become lethargic.
The other is when guys keep training and pushing themselves and I think that is will power and cortisol overcoming thyroid issues.
The later seems like a road to adrenal fatigue.
Adrenal fatigue is a result and rT3 comes with that and rT3 can block fT3.
We have some guys with strong fT3 and fT4 who have elevated rT3 and low temperatures.
We have some guys with low fT3 and fT4 with low temperatures who may also have rT3 making things worse.
You seem to have a mix of mildly low thyroid and mildly elevated rT3.
Note change with the thyroid meds and see how temps change.
If rT3 increases, you may need to have more T3 and less T4.
Try to life a more relaxed life.
KSman,
Thanks again and I will post how things are going and pick your brain in a couple weeks.