Filibusters

[quote]100meters wrote:

No, I’d still argue that it is constitutional( you stick with Article II, Section 2, clause 2 and I’ll stick with Article I, Section 5, clause 2, Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings?)
And naturally I don’t agree with judicial activism. These judges would be the WORST form of activism, the last thing we need would be so called “originalist” like Scalia who is perfectly willing to ignore the constitution in order to implement political idealogy! Make no mistake that Scalia is an activist like no other, the foolishness of him touring the country arguing for originalism with statements like:
“government derives its authority from God” and “[o]ur laws come from God.”

It takes the utmost nerve to pretent to hold madison’s pen like that when oh so obviously the constitution DOES NOT SAY THAT! Would Madison be stabbing Scalia in the neck with his quill or what? The 10 judges in question are just as activist if not worse than Scalia, and it certainly isn’t the type of activism needed.[/quote]

You do realize what your position, which is that the only relevant item is that the Constitution granted the Senate a power, means in principle, right? Basically that there could be no Unconstitutional laws, because the Constitution granted Congress the power to pass laws…

Anyway, I didn’t expect you to agree with respect to those particular judges, but your response actually proves my point – you’re worried that Bush’s nominees would be activist judges. If judges would just quit being activist and trying to impose their will on laws, rather than actually doing their job and interpreting existing laws, then we wouldn’t have this problem.

Originalism, irrespective of your opinion of Scalia, is really the only way of interpreting laws that doesn’t produce judicial activism – once you decide you need to move beyond textualism that is, which should always be the first starting position. Other than that, you have judges substituting their own values and goals for those of the legislature (or those of the Founders, in the case of the Constitution).

Some great insights by an anonymous contributor to The Volokh Conspiracy on Senatorial obstructionism to Presidential nominees – I’ll just note that I wish Leahy circa 2005 was listening to Leahy circa 1998:

http://www.volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_05_15-2005_05_21.shtml#1116684739

[Juan Non-Volokh, May 21, 2005 at 10:12am] 3 Trackbacks / Possibly More Trackbacks

Judicial Obstruction – Three Different Kinds:

Some defenders of the judicial filibuster suggest this is simple payback for Republican mistreatment of Clinton nominees from 1995-2000. Others argue Senate Democrats have no choice because other, more traditional means, of blocking nominees (e.g. blue slips) have been curtailed. Implicit in some of these arguments is the view that blocking a judge is blocking a judge, no matter how it is done. Matthew Yglesias, for instance, argues that ?If we’re talking about blocking judges, we should be talking about all the ways (blue slips, failure to schedule hearings, etc.) that nominees have been blocked from getting floor votes.?

While I agree with the principle that all nominees should get hearings and a floor vote within a reasonable period of time ? and that it was wrong for both Republicans and Democrats to block action on Clinton, Bush, and Reagan nominees in years past ? I am not convinced that all forms of delay are equivalent, or that principled opposition to one suggests principled opposition to them all. It seems to me that there are significant differences between the majority?s control of the Senate agenda, the traditional use of blue slips by home state Senators, and a minority filibuster, and that it is reasonable to oppose the obstruction or delay of nominees through some of these methods but not others.

Majority control of the Senate entails certain prerogatives. Among them are the control of committees and the Senate?s agenda. The party in control of the Senate decides what business to conduct and when to conduct it. As a general matter, it is not ?obstruction? when the Senate majority refuses to take up issues supported by the President, as the Senate is entitled to have its own priorities. Thus, one should expect that a Senate majority will consider nominees it likes more rapidly than those it does not, and that nominees from a President of the same party will be confirmed more rapidly than those of a President of the opposition. Again, this sort of agenda control is the prerogative of the party in control.

I believe the Senate majority should make a reasonable effort to consider the President?s nominees to the judicial or executive branch without undue delay, but the majority must enjoy some leeway here as it is the majority. The Senate majority may ignore the President?s legislative initiatives because it has other legislative priorities. That is the majority?s prerogative. Yet only the President can nominate. Therefore if the Senate delays positions necessarily remain unfilled, potentially impeding the operation of the other coordinate branches. So while its traditional for Senate majorities to treat their own party?s nominees with greater dispatch, I do not think they should be obstructionist. If a nominee is truly bad, the Senate majority should hold a vote and defeat him, not bottle up the nomination in committee while a seat remains unfilled.

The one way Senators of a minority party blocked undesirable judicial nominees in the past was through the blue slip, yet this was limited to home state Senators. As practiced for decades, the policy worked like this. When the President nominated someone, a blue slip would be sent to the Senators from the state in which the nominee was to sit. The Senator would return the blue slip with an indication whether he or she supported or opposed the nominee. Traditionally, if the Senator returned a negative blue slip, or refused to return the blue slip at all, the nominee would not be confirmed. The blue slip thus gave home state Senators of either party an effective veto of judicial nominees that would sit in their states, and encouraged Presidents to consider the views of home state Senators when picking judicial nominees. While there is some dispute as to how consistently the blue slip rule was enforced in the past, there is no question that Republicans tightened the rule under President Clinton, and have effectively eliminated it under President Bush.

The blue slip is incredibly undemocratic. It allows a single Senator to block a judicial nominee. The justification for it is that a home state Senator has a disproportionate interest in judicial nominees that will sit in his or her state. In the case of district court nominees, this interest is quite large. With circuit court nominees, the home state interest is somewhat less, but still substantial. The blue slip is a traditional recognition that Senators are representatives of their states, as such, and that they should have some say about the administration of justice in the states they represent. I don?t much like the blue slip, particularly for circuit court nominees, but it is a Senate tradition, some would say ?Senatorial courtesy,? observed more often than not for many decades. As such, it has its defenders.

The filibuster is the newest means deployed to block judicial nominees, and effectively imposes a supermajority requirement for judicial confirmation. Prior to the election of President Bush, it had never been used by a Senate minority to prevent confirmation of a judicial nominee enjoying majority support. The one nominee ever filibustered before, Justice Abe Fortas, was opposed by Senators from both parties, lacked majority support, and eventually resigned from the bench under an ethical cloud. It is most certainly not a precedent for the filibusters we have seen for the past few years. Given its lack of any historical pedigree, I find it hard to justify the filibuster on anything but consequentialist grounds. Its use is not simple payback, insofar as it was not used before, and instead represents an escalation in the fight over judicial confirmations. Some believe it is warranted because judges have life tenure, but this was not the constitutional design. Judges have always been confirmed by a simple majority, and I see no reason to change. Indeed, I find it hard to view the current filibuster as anything more than sour grapes.

To recap, I believe all judicial nominees of whichever party should be considered within a reasonable period of time from their nomination ? a principle both parties have violated time and again over the past twenty years. Senate majorities and home state Senators have blocked or delayed disfavored nominees for some time, though minority filibusters have not been used. I believe one could support the Senate majority?s agenda control or even blue slips without defending the filibuster, as they are not all the same. I, for one, oppose them all.

UPDATE: This post was not intended as an attack on or defense of either party. As I have written before, I think both parties have engaged in unjustified obstruction of the other?s nominees. As I detailed in my posts on the history of the confirmation fights, here ( The Volokh Conspiracy ) and here ( The Volokh Conspiracy ), Senate Democrats began blocking Republican nominees in the mid-1980s. Senate Republicans responded with a greater level of obstruction once they retook the Senate in 1995, and Democrats have upped the ante since.

Kevin Drum thinks I should have paid greater attention to the Republicans? rule changes, particularly with regard to blue slips ( http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006350.php ). I acknowledged the changes above, and would also note that the blue slip rule changes have not been as hard and fast as Drum might suggest. For instance, while Senator Hatch said it would require opposition from both home-state Senators to block one of Bush?s appellate nominees, Senator Edwards was still able to block any action on Terrence Boyle?s nomination all by his lonesome. The Senate Judiciary Committee only began to consider Boyle once Edwards had left the Senate. I would also add that it?s not entirely clear how Senator Specter is approaching blue slips for appellate nominees now. Again, I do not like the use of blue slips by either party. Nonetheless, I recognize that they represent a longstanding ?Senatorial courtesy? of respecting the particular interests of home state Senators, and thus believe that they can serve a different purpose than other means of obstruction.

To reiterate my position in case I have not been clear: I think all of this obstruction is wrong; I would like to have seen all nominees of each party receive up-or-down votes; I am not particularly fond of the ?nuclear option?; and I would welcome a deal to ensure prompt consideration of all nominees to take effect after the next presidential election.

In the end, I think Senator Pat Leahy (D-VT) had it right in 1998 ( http://leahy.senate.gov/press/199806/980618b.html ):

[i] I have had judicial nominations by both Democrat and Republican Presidents that I intended to oppose. But I fought like mad to make sure they at least got a chance to be on the floor for a vote.

I have stated over and over again on this floor that I would refuse to put an anonymous hold on any judge; that I would object and fight against any filibuster on a judge, whether it is somebody I opposed or supported; that I felt the Senate should do its duty. [/i]

I wish more Senators of both parties had followed this example then, and I wish more Senators would follow it now.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Originalism, irrespective of your opinion of Scalia, is really the only way of interpreting laws that doesn’t produce judicial activism – once you decide you need to move beyond textualism that is, which should always be the first starting position. Other than that, you have judges substituting their own values and goals for those of the legislature (or those of the Founders, in the case of the Constitution).[/quote]

The problem with originalism–is that it’s a false label that conservatives attach to themselves to differentiate themselves from “activist” judges. Originalist judges aren’t really originalist and are just as activist as anybody else (if not more so). They are willing to be textualist right up to the point that it contradicts their own view point even if it means contradicting previous findings in other cases.
How many of the 10 filibustered judges would have stood up to say Scalia’s a fool when he said in his oral arguments for the 10 commandments:

“a symbol of the fact that government derives its authority from God.”

The statement is clearly unamerican by definition, and obviously not textualist–and is clearly something you would not a judge or any other member of our government saying openly.

Looks like Fristy got himself bypassed today.

From President Dobson:

To: National Desk

Contact: Christopher Norfleet of Focus on the Family, 719-548-4570 or culturalissues@focusaction.org

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., May 23 /U.S. Newswire/ – Focus on the Family Action Chairman Dr. James C. Dobson today issued the following statement, upon the announcement by members of the U.S. Senate that a “compromise” had been reached on the filibuster issue:

"This Senate agreement represents a complete bailout and betrayal by a cabal of Republicans and a great victory for united Democrats. Only three of President Bush?s nominees will be given the courtesy of an up-or-down vote, and it’s business as usual for all the rest. The rules that blocked conservative nominees remain in effect, and nothing of significance has changed. Justice Clarence Thomas, Justice Antonin Scalia, and Chief Justice William Rehnquist would never have served on the U. S. Supreme Court if this agreement had been in place during their confirmations. The unconstitutional filibuster survives in the arsenal of Senate liberals.

“We are grateful to Majority Leader Frist for courageously fighting to defend the vital principle of basic fairness. That principle has now gone down to defeat. We share the disappointment, outrage and sense of abandonment felt by millions of conservative Americans who helped put Republicans in power last November. I am certain that these voters will remember both Democrats and Republicans who betrayed their trust.”

Frist now looks like a puppet, even worse–he doesn’t control the senate.
Also, take note today began McCain’s 08 presidential campaign. Oh Fristy!

What a nice opportunity for handshakes and congratulations in front of the camera.

It appears to have solved exactly nothing.

Sorry state of affairs when you are trusting the current crop of Democratic leaders to show restraint.

Good luck.

When Rehnquist steps down at the end of June, we will be right back to square one. This time the country will be paying much more attention. It will be far nastier.

I don’t think Frist did the right thing here. He skipped the qualifying round and went straight to the title bout. Only next time the Dems will have the mind clouding, dramatic issues like “Roe v Wade” to wave in the air and whip everyone into a froth.

Oh, isn’t it curious that the Dems have effectively sent to the bench the three most Conservative of the nominees?

Oh, lumpy, McCain will not be the Republican nominee in 2008. If your letter is genuine, the Conservatives, who make up a large proportion of the primary electorate, will not be pleased.

He can forget it.

JeffR

[quote]100meters wrote:
Frist now looks like a puppet, even worse–he doesn’t control the senate.
Also, take note today began McCain’s 08 presidential campaign. Oh Fristy![/quote]

Say what you want about him, McCain just proved he’s still a pro in this game.

McCain in '08 baby!

Politically, the deal is good for Republicans. Constitutionally, it’s offensive.

Anyway, Pejman Yousefzadeh points out why the deal is good politically for Republicans:

http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/5/23/223034/627

  1. First of all, Republicans get three nominees the opportunity to get up-or-down votes (Priscilla Owen, Janice Rogers Brown and Bill Pryor). All three of these nominees have been adjudged by Democrats as being too extreme to be elevated to the bench–thus the filibusters that were employed against them. All three will now become federal judges confirmed by the Senate. The obvious implication–given that Democrats will now give them votes–is that they were not extreme nominees and that Democrats were grandstanding with empty rhetoric that ultimately, they did not even believe in. To be sure, Republicans will need to hammer that point home, but if they do, they will score a major talking points victory.

  2. Future filibusters will only be conducted in “extraordinary circumstances.” Yes, this statement is meaningless. Yes, it will be judged on a case-by-case basis. And no, there is nothing to prevent Democrats from saying “I don’t like the color of the nominees shirt and for me that is extraordinary circumstance enough to oppose him/her.” But just as Democrats may choose to claim “extraordinary circumstances” on a case-by-case basis, Republicans can call B.S. on a case-by-case basis as well. Again, this will depend on execution, but if there is another run-of-the-mill filibuster, Republicans can claim that the deal has been breached, and that the elimination of the filibuster is again on the table (note that in Senate Majority Leader Frist’s speech before the Senate, he refused to take the elimination of the filibuster off the table).

  3. Patterico highlights Section II, subsection B of the agreement and concludes that it is part and parcel of “a complete and pointless capitulation.” I disagree. If the deal is maintained and kept in good faith (meaning, of course, that filibusters really are employed only in “extraordinary circumstances” as people of good faith and common sense would define the term), then it is perhaps to be expected that the elimination of the filibuster will not take place. But if the deal is breached by the circumstances discussed above, or by alternative circumstances, then it stands to reason that the decision “to oppose the rules changes in the 109th Congress” will no longer be binding. Once more, this depends on execution and proper follow-through by Republicans to act on a breach that is conducted in bad faith. But that option is not precluded to Republicans.

  4. One of the generally agreed interpretations of the deal is that Supreme Court nominees (and we may see one as early as this summer) will not be filibustered. Patterico takes a dim view of this, but even if his interpretation is correct, I say “So what?”. It is better for the Bush Administration in any event to nominate an outsider to succeed Chief Justice Rehnquist since it would be easier to handle only one confirmation fight no matter what the circumstances, and since the favored conservative candidate to succeed Chief Justice Rehnquist–Antonin Scalia–is probably too old for the job and too well-suited to being an Associate Justice who can shake things up instead of being a Chief Justice who has to sublimate his natural (and delightful) pugnacity in order to forge and achieve a consensus among his colleagues. Tell me what conservative or libertarian would not be happy with the appointment of a J. Harvie Wilkinson, or a Michael Luttig, or a John Roberts or a Michael McConnell as Chief Justice. It would be hard to find such a person. Republicans need only nominate one very good and very reliable outsider to serve as Chief Justice and any problems viewed by Patterico are solved.


Then there’s another facet, which should scare 100meters if he was right in his contention that values voters really wanted this showdown. If they were disappointed, there could be two outcomes. First is they quit; Second is they become more focused as a political force. Which would you consider more likely?

[quote]100meters wrote:

The problem with originalism–is that it’s a false label that conservatives attach to themselves to differentiate themselves from “activist” judges. Originalist judges aren’t really originalist and are just as activist as anybody else (if not more so). They are willing to be textualist right up to the point that it contradicts their own view point even if it means contradicting previous findings in other cases.
How many of the 10 filibustered judges would have stood up to say Scalia’s a fool when he said in his oral arguments for the 10 commandments:

“a symbol of the fact that government derives its authority from God.”

The statement is clearly unamerican by definition, and obviously not textualist–and is clearly something you would not a judge or any other member of our government saying openly.[/quote]

I need to put my waders on – there’s so much crap in this statement I barely know where to begin…

Firstly, it’s beside the point, which of course was dubious Constitutionality of the Senate abusing its internal rules to usurp executive power.

Secondly, how is it that judges attempting to apply a standard that is tied to the text of legislation and the intent of the legislature (and the people, in the case of the Constitution) could be more activist than those who make up whatever they want to find in the “emanantions and pnumbras” of the Constitution (hint: when they can’t actually locate it, or even make a logical inference, that’s fairly good evidence it’s not actually there…)? Translation: it’s not. While I can’t possibly make the claim that all judges who claim to be originalists never are activists, it’s pretty easy to claim they are less activist than those who impose no standards on themselves other than their own moral compasses.

BTW, it’s interesting you go to speeches, rather than cases, to try to show judicial activism. That’s not much evidence now, is it?


ADDENDUM:

Good, pithy op-ed in today’s WSJ making an overall point on judicial activism:

Our Constitution Faces
Death by ‘Due Process’

By LINO A. GRAGLIA
May 24, 2005; Page A12

The battles in Congress over the appointment of even lower court federal judges reveal a recognition that federal judges are now, to a large extent, our real lawmakers. Proposals to amend the Constitution to remove lifetime tenure for Supreme Court justices, or to require that rulings of unconstitutionality be by more than a majority (5-4) vote, do not address the source of the problem. The Constitution is very difficult to amend – probably the most difficult of any supposedly democratic government. If opponents of rule by judges secure the political power to obtain an amendment, it should be one that addresses the problem at its source, which is that contemporary constitutional law has very little to do with the Constitution.

Judge-made constitutional law is the product of judicial review – the power of judges to disallow policy choices made by other officials of government, supposedly on the ground that they are prohibited by the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson warned that judges, always eager to expand their own jurisdiction, would “twist and shape” the Constitution “as an artist shapes a ball of wax.” This is exactly what has happened.

The Constitution is a very short document, easily printed on a dozen pages. The Framers wisely meant to preclude very few policy choices that legislators, at least as committed to American principles of government as judges, would have occasion to make.

The essential irrelevance of the Constitution to contemporary constitutional law should be clear enough from the fact that the great majority of Supreme Court rulings of unconstitutionality involve state, not federal, law; and nearly all of them purport to be based on a single constitutional provision, the 14th Amendment – in fact, on only four words in one sentence of the Amendment, “due process” and “equal protection.” The 14th Amendment has to a large extent become a second constitution, replacing the original.

It does not require jurisprudential sophistication to realize that the justices do not decide controversial issues of social policy by studying those four words. No question of interpretation is involved in any of the Court’s controversial constitutional rulings, because there is nothing to interpret. The states did not lose the power to regulate abortion in 1973 in Roe v. Wade because Justice Harry Blackmun discovered in the due process clause of the 14th Amendment, adopted in 1868, the purported basis of the decision, something no one noticed before. The problem is that the Supreme Court justices have made the due process and equal protection clauses empty vessels into which they can pour any meaning. This converts the clauses into simple transferences of policy-making power from elected legislators to the justices, authorizing a Court majority to remove any policy issue from the ordinary political process and assign it to themselves for decision. This fundamentally changes the system of government created by the Constitution

The basic principles of the Constitution are representative democracy, federalism and the separation of powers, which places all lawmaking power in an elected legislature with the judiciary merely applying the law to individual cases. Undemocratic and centralized lawmaking by the judiciary is the antithesis of the constitutional system.

The only justification for permitting judges to invalidate a policy choice made in the ordinary political process is that the choice is clearly prohibited by the Constitution – “clearly,” because in a democracy the judgment of elected legislators should prevail in cases of doubt. Judicially enforced constitutionalism raises the issue, as Jefferson also pointed out, of rule of the living by the dead. But our problem is not constitutionalism but judicial activism – the invalidation by judges of policy choices not clearly (and rarely even arguably) prohibited by the Constitution. We are being ruled not by the dead but by judges all too much alive.

Because most of the Supreme Court’s activist rulings of unconstitutionality purport to be based on a 14th Amendment that it has deprived of specific meaning, the problem can be very largely solved by simply restoring the 14th Amendment to its original meaning, or by giving it any specific meaning. The 14th Amendment was written after the Civil War to provide a national guarantee of basic civil rights to blacks. If a constitutional amendment could be adopted reconfining the 14th Amendment to that purpose or, better still, expanding it to a general prohibition of all official racial discrimination, the Court’s free-hand remaking of domestic social policy for the nation would largely come to an end. If the justices lost the ability to invalidate state law on the basis of their political preferences, their ability and willingness to invalidate federal law on this basis would likely also diminish.

Plato argued for government by philosopher-kings, but who could argue for a system of government by lawyer-kings? No one can argue openly that leaving the final decision on issues of basic social policy to majority vote of nine lawyers – unelected and life-tenured, making policy decisions for the nation as a whole from Washington, D.C. – is an improvement on the democratic federalist system created by the Constitution. Yet that is the form of government we now have.

The claim that the Court’s rulings of unconstitutionality are mandates of the Constitution, or anything more than policy preferences of a majority of the justices, is false. Rule by judges is in violation, not enforcement, of the Constitution. Ending it requires nothing more complex than insistence that the Court’s rulings of unconstitutionality should be based on the Constitution – which assigns “All legislative Power” to Congress – in fact as well as name.

Mr. Graglia is the A. Dalton Cross Professor of Law, University of Texas. This is adapted from “‘A Country I Do Not Recognize’: The Legal Assault on American Values” (Robert Bork, editor), to be published this fall by the Hoover Institution.

I’m disappointed in the deal. The right had the dems on the ground and their boot heels on their throats.

Once again Hagel et al prove why they will more than likely be replaced next election cycle.

On the upshot- it looks as if the two sacrificial nominees were not sure things even if it came to an up or down vote, so there is nothing really given up by the republicans.

Maybe they’ll take down those ads by estro-boy Reid now. How could any red blooded male vote for such a whiny little pussy? And to think he was voted Minority Leader? Is that all you guys have for leadership? Embarassing.

The deal sucks.

If the President nominates someone for a position then you should vote for him. Whether the president is Republican or Democrat makes no difference.

The argument that the other party did something in the past so that is why it is OK to do it again now is foolish.

Do the job you got elected to do or resign. Take responsibility.

McCain never liked him, like him even less now.

Denying the vote is a losers game. The Dems need to stop playing it.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
What a nice opportunity for handshakes and congratulations in front of the camera.

It appears to have solved exactly nothing.

Sorry state of affairs when you are trusting the current crop of Democratic leaders to show restraint.

Good luck.

When Rehnquist steps down at the end of June, we will be right back to square one. This time the country will be paying much more attention. It will be far nastier.

I don’t think Frist did the right thing here. He skipped the qualifying round and went straight to the title bout. Only next time the Dems will have the mind clouding, dramatic issues like “Roe v Wade” to wave in the air and whip everyone into a froth.

Oh, isn’t it curious that the Dems have effectively sent to the bench the three most Conservative of the nominees?

Oh, lumpy, McCain will not be the Republican nominee in 2008. If your letter is genuine, the Conservatives, who make up a large proportion of the primary electorate, will not be pleased.

He can forget it.

JeffR[/quote]

Frist had nothing to do with so far as I can see, as for McCain I’ll just keep my fingers crossed that their are enough theocrats to keep him from winnig the nomination, GO FRISTY!

lumpy,

The more I think about this, the less I like it.

I would like to be a fly on the wall within the Republican power structure.

I can’t help wondering if the Republicans will force the Democrats to fillibuster prior to exercising the “constitutional option.”

CNN splashed the headline “Crisis Averted.” Wrong. It’s “Crisis Postponed.”

Besides grabbing headlines, I’m not sure what the Democrats gained.

In fact, by allowing the three most Conservative judges to be confirmed, they showed their true colors.

Now the Republicans can point to them and say, “Well, this person is less Conservative than Owens. You confirmed her.”

lumpy, neither McCain, Frist, or Gingrich has a snowball’s chance in hell of capturing the Republican nomination.

I hope I’ve eased your mind on that point.

JeffR

I wouldn’t be so sure about Newt. I think he could do it. The Republicans have no opponent, so why not take the chance and move further to the right? What we don’t need is a “moderate” running in '08.

I’d vote straight Green Party ticket before I would vote for a McCain. I get the heebie-jeebies just listening to that mealy-mouthed sellout.

Rain,

I personally think Newt is well qualified.

He plays hardball. He knows how to get things done in Washington.

As you know, he has been pilloried by the media (usually a badge of honor.)

I just don’t see the Republicans opening that can of worms. I think he carries too much baggage.

I can hear the liberals using their scare tactics about “governmental shutdown.”

On a lighter note, I would love to see Newt debating rodham. Her lack of real governmental experience would be brutally exposed.

I’d love to hear the Democrats insult Newt’s intelligence or his communication skills. He would laugh out loud!!!

JeffR

rainjack and hedo,

Politically I wouldn’t worry about it – this “deal” is far from binding on anyone, because it doesn’t really mean anything. It doesn’t stop anyone from filibustering in “extraordinary” (which is undefined) circumstances, and it doesn’t stop anyone from voting to kill the filibuster rule if they think the vote for filibustering isn’t in good faith. It was basically a “deal” that only dealth with these particular 5 nominees – in that it was shameful, given the Dems weren’t forced to give a hearing and make an argument for why they think these folks are “extreme.”

It postponed the day of reckoning until the Supreme Court nominations come up – that is, if the Dems will dare try to filibuster one, rather than take the traditional “Borking” tack (and by “traditional” I mean the tradition the Dems established with Bork back in the mid-80s).

It’s the principle of the thing. We have 7 Republicans that, for some reason, thinks the Dems are still in power.

Seven sellouts. I think their jobs should be put on the chopping block in their next election. Just for shits and giggles - how many of the Sellout 7 are up for re-election in 2006? My bet would be that they are all 2008, or 2010 candidates.

I’d sure like to see someone push for some guidelines on what constitutes an extreme candidate before we get to Supreme Court confirmations.

I think politics had a big impact on the deal. Regardless of Frist’s intentions, I don’t know if a war on the filibuster would do much in the PR department for the Republicans - or the Democrats either.

Fact is, many in America are getting fed up with the shrill polarization occurring in national politics, and it is especially noticeable in the supposedly stately Senate. The fed-up bloc, I think, includes many Red Staters who are conservative at heart, but also pragmatists who are sick of ideological battles being waged when other issues are at hand - like spiraling spending, war on terror.

Not that the battle over the makeup of federal judgeships isn’t important - it is. But regardless of who started this round of partisan theatrics - and it was unmistakeably the Democrats this time - the public at large will take its anger out on anyone whose nose is in it, and I am thinking 2006 could be a reckoning.

On balance, I don’t like the deal, but I see its political utility. It is nothing more than a backaway from the precipice in the name of saving face for both parties - Republicans get their judges and Democrats retain their right to object to future appointments (as do Republicans, it turns out, to the long-term chagrin of the next Democratic president). I think the Gang of Twelve sensed a no-win situation and wanted to hammer out something - but it merely postpones the dogfight that will emerge when a Supreme Court justice is on the menu.

This has all been a rehearsal for the next couple of Supreme Court appointments. And besides, as for the Republicans, they still carry the Big Stick as long as the retain the Senate majority - they still retain power to nuke the filibuster if they want. Democrats know this, but will likely pull out all the stops because if someone like Stevens retires, Roe v. Wade - incidentally the case that thrust our Court into these messy culture wars and basically made appointments the equivalent of political offices - could meet its doom.

Nothing has changed, though - the Republicans got exactly what they wanted. Many are insecure about the ‘gentlemen’s agreement’ that future filibusters could only be done is ‘extraordinary’ circumstances - and that defining ‘extraordinary’ simply leaves the door open to future abuse. But Democrats who want to filibuster against an ‘extraordinary’ candidate know full well the nuclear option has never been shelved and that if they act in bad faith on a nominee, a GOP majority can legislate away their filibustering privilege.

Bush has got some reforms to sell to the American people right now - like the sputtering Social Security reform. Bush doesn’t need a shitstorm of bad blood and publicity when he is trying to sell policy. In this case, I think the deal might be a good thing.

BB

I hear you. I just have issues with a deal these 7 make. Niether the leadership of the President approved it, at least publicly.

A good take on how the deal is a win for professed conservatives:

I like the Russell Kirk homage, and this:

“A GOP-established legislative and institutional precedent for abolishing the filibuster as to judicial nominations would make it all that much easier for the Democrats to do the same as to nominations or legislation. (Imagine President Hillary with a 50-50 Senate split and, say, Mark Warner as VP. What will prevent HillaryCare II if we don’t have the filibuster then? Our slim majority in the House?)”

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
A good take on how the deal is a win for professed conservatives:

I like the Russell Kirk homage, and this:

“A GOP-established legislative and institutional precedent for abolishing the filibuster as to judicial nominations would make it all that much easier for the Democrats to do the same as to nominations or legislation. (Imagine President Hillary with a 50-50 Senate split and, say, Mark Warner as VP. What will prevent HillaryCare II if we don’t have the filibuster then? Our slim majority in the House?)”

[/quote]

Victory (temporary and fleeting):
Moderate republicans. Filibuster. 3 judges.

Losers (temporary and fleeting)
FRIST!, Theocrats!, wingnuttia!, President Bush (I thought I had a mandate), Dobson, the other judges, conservative republicans, americans affected by the victorious judges.

Tie: Democrats. lose some judges, keep filibuster for SCOTUS.