Fat People Raising Health Care Costs

[quote]4est wrote:

If a person is fat from prednisone or some medical issue, then I understand. If they have a self inflicted all-you-can-eat disability, it’s thier own fault.[/quote]

How big can you possibly get from a medical condition though? 50 lbs overweight …maybe a tad bit more, I’m no doctor so I don’t know. I hear people make excuses all the time and they say it’s due to thyroid or it’s genetic or whatever.

That excuse makes me want to slap some people, seriously. Being 200 lbs overweight is NOT from genetics. And even those that are prone to obesity, can reduce their chances of actually becoming obese if they live a healthy life and maybe take a walk every now and then. I think this problem is getting way out of hand.

From reading this thread, I wonder if a fat person stepping into a gym gets similar reactions. Maybe not in so many words, but in dirty looks and mocking chuckles…

[quote]
I don’t care if everyone treated me like a princess and I could do anything I wanted to in life, if I were obese I would never ever be happy. It’s a real shame that people spend more money developing new, tantalizingly fattening forms of junk food instead of helping people be happy and healthy. I hate fast food joints almost as much as tobacco companies.[/quote]

You entire post was great, but I like this part best. However, no one puts anything in anyone’s mouth (get ya’lls mind out of the gutter fellas)…everyone is responsible for his/her own actions. No one makes them eat that triple bacon cheeseburger with extra large fries and no one makes them put that cigarette in their mouth. Eh, the adults, it bothers me when I see an obese adult, but I think it burns me up even more to see obese kids.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Are you serious? I would’ve thought you’d be a little more intelligent than that. Obesity greatly increases the risk of acquiring virtually every disease (including cancer). HMOs have to pay for all the diseases that arise. They necessarily raise insurance rates to cover these costs. No doubt the system is corrupt and there are tremendous problems. But if HMOs didn’t raise costs to offset obesity-related illenesses, they’d be operating at at loss (or at least less of a profit). Though there are preferred rates (I believe) these costs are averaged. EVERYONE, obese and non-obese alike, would be paying less if there was less obesity and less obesity-related illness.
[/quote]

I apprecaite the backhanded compliment… I think.

I agree that if less people were obese then insurance rates could theroetically go down. But the gist of my point is that obesity related health issues is such a small part of the rising costs of healthcare that it’s unfair to point at it as the end all be all factor.

You want to know where the biggest cost increase is from, and this is documented. Malpractice insurance. Healthcare costs on the medical side, i.e. doctor’s fees, anesthesiologists fees, etc. have skyrocketed becuase their insurance premiums have gone up. They are just passing the costs on to us, which get passed on to our insurance companies which raise our rates.

So it’s unfair to obese people to treat them like they are single-handedly costing you more money. The 15 year old who drops out of high school to eventually go on welfare will cost you more in the long run.

I saw this article on the front page of the Health section in my local paper today. I couldn’t believe it. For me, the issue wasn’t about the money being spent to make the changes to the hospitals, but more about why the money isn’t being spent on preventative measures…and I don’t mean gastric bypass. It’s getting ridiculous that we have to learn to accomodate these people.
I had to laugh at the land whales comment above…James and I were at Super Wal Mart a few weeks back…we couldn’t help but talk about all the overweight people on the motor scooters. The worst part is that they are so heavy, the scooter can barely move. There was a mother and a daughter, both on scooters. They had a couple fat little kids walking next to them. We encountered them in the meat section, they were talking about frying up chicken thighs, and putting sausage and those breaded chicken patties in their baskets. Then a few feet away was another obese man on a scooter…it’s absurd! The worst part for me is the example these adults are setting for the children in their lives. It’s one thing to be overweight, but it’s a whole different ballgame when we’re talking about being so fat you can’t walk…how the hell do they wipe their own ass!!!

Wow. I guess none of you had an overweight relative. I mean, sure I hate paying for the extra cost because someone couldn’t control their bad habits, but your being downright caustic.

I guess if our goverment did a better job of labeling food properly, enforcing proper diet habits in schools, insuring proper education of kids and not cutting corners when it comes to phys ed, you could blame it on laziness or stupidty.

But we allow fast food chains to not show trans fats levels in their meals, we don’t explain how to lose weight in school, and we stand back and mock people who are maybe unaware of how to help themselves, or afraid to because of posts like this.

Think about it. If you came here looking for help, and saw this post, would you feel accepted or excluded? We have the knowledge, we should share it, not place ourselves higher because we found the way.

Next we can pick on stupid people because they don’t know how to read things, like Steriods are dangerous. No wait, we put them on pedstals, take their picture and call them examples of fitness that others could never achieve, all the while believing they never touched illegal substances…

[quote]spartanpower wrote:
I’m curious to know whether obesity is on the rise in other parts of the world. Any non-US T-people care to educate me?[/quote]

I am in the US but I have seen a number of reports that says it is on the rise in many countries.

[quote]TigerFighter wrote:
Wow. I guess none of you had an overweight relative. I mean, sure I hate paying for the extra cost because someone couldn’t control their bad habits, but your being downright caustic.

I guess if our goverment did a better job of labeling food properly, enforcing proper diet habits in schools, insuring proper education of kids and not cutting corners when it comes to phys ed, you could blame it on laziness or stupidty.

But we allow fast food chains to not show trans fats levels in their meals, we don’t explain how to lose weight in school, and we stand back and mock people who are maybe unaware of how to help themselves, or afraid to because of posts like this.

Think about it. If you came here looking for help, and saw this post, would you feel accepted or excluded? We have the knowledge, we should share it, not place ourselves higher because we found the way.

Next we can pick on stupid people because they don’t know how to read things, like Steriods are dangerous. No wait, we put them on pedstals, take their picture and call them examples of fitness that others could never achieve, all the while believing they never touched illegal substances…[/quote]

TF: I’m not attacking you in this response, so don’t take it that way.

My ENTIRE family (except my mom and one uncle) is at least 50 lbs overweight, with my two aunts being the fattest at at least 200 for the one and 250 for the other. My son’s grandmother probably weighs over 200 at 5’3". My dad is about 250 and just had his first heart attack. My mom’s dad died of a massive stroke when I was 18. He was about 60 pounds overweight. Both of my dad’s parents have had quadruple bypasses. My uncle has had a triple. All have had heart attacks and/or strokes, and all are very fat and unhealthy.

I hate fat people because I know what they’re doing to themselves. You can plead with them to lose weight until you’re blue in the face and they won’t listen. They don’t want to hear it, because they don’t want to feel bad about themselves. So they ride the Domino’s/KFC/McD’s/Krispy Kreme train all the way to the OR or the fucking morgue. They poison themselves every day with no regard for the people that they may end up leaving behind to pick up the pieces after they die prematurely.

When my mom called me and told me about my dad’s heart attack, I held my breath until she told me he was alive. Then I wished that I was there so I could beat him to death for not listening to me every fucking time I told him he needed to start watching his diet a little, exercising a little, and otherwise not being such a fat fuck.

I know for a fact that just because someone is fat doesn’t mean that they are lazy or stupid. In my family you’ll find the HARDEST working and most intelligent individuals you have ever met. My 250 lb whale of an aunt was a VP with PNC for 10 years before she retired and started her own business at the age of 40. My uncle with the triple bypass owns a prosperous packaging company. My grandfather that’s still alive is 80 years old and he still holds a full time job. My dad is the leading sales rep for an industrial waste removal company. Hard working and smart, yet completely fucking irresponsible with their own health. They know how to lose weight, they just lack the desire or the willingness to fucking suck it up and get it done.

It isn’t the government’s responsibility to help these people. It isn’t the fast food companies’ responsibility. It isn’t the schools’ responsibility. This is a cross that they (the fat people) have to bear, along with their loved ones. If you have overweight people that you care about, I suggest you do everything in your power to try and help them change for the better. I do all I can, and it’s a tough fight to get even the smallest response, but if I can keep my dad around long enough to see his grandson graduate from college, get married, and have great grandkids, then I’ll be happy with my efforts.

[quote]pookie wrote:
From reading this thread, I wonder if a fat person stepping into a gym gets similar reactions. Maybe not in so many words, but in dirty looks and mocking chuckles…

[/quote]

I think that is an individual choice. I don’t stare, laugh at, or openly mock fat people just for going to the gym. That’s stupid. I do, however, tend to notice if I see the same obese person for months or years getting on the same treadmill, putting forth the same effort (or lack thereof) in their weight training yet not making ANY progress at all. From experience, I also know that many are not open to any criticism at all or help in that area because they view it as a degrading act that someone feels they need help in the first place. I just try to mind my own business.

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:
Let them die.[/quote]

Amen!

If I had my way I would give the editors and major contributors of T-Nation the health budget and unlimted enforcement powers to take over preventative health programs for all countries.

I would expect things such as excellent nutrition and education in schools, compulsory gym classes, and annual training camps for all people of all ages.

… excuse my ranting and raving, community health is a major concern for me … it is damned frustrating.

obesity (and other health problems) are a major waste of money. Anyone who disagrees with that doesn’t know the facts.

the truly obese can be quite disgusting, with mould growing between flabs of fat. some men cannot see their private parts - have not seen them in years - and need to urinate through a pipe.

I do feel some sorrow for the general public who have been fed a load of bullshit about exercise / diet, then fed a tonne of sugar / crap

Sure the parents are at fault but really, if society can do something about it, and doesn’t, then society is at fault.

but who would vote for a politician who wages a war on fat?

And don’t forget the extremely powerful interests involved … fast food companies, junk food manufacturers, even drug companies (make money from the sick) etc… and so forth.

The main problem is the money trail. Take tobacco - tobacco companies would go broke if they had to pay the medical costs of the diseases they cause. But they don’t. In a way tobacco companies are stealing from the public coffers.

Similarly, junk food companies (etc…) are stealing from the medical coffers as the true cost of their product is paid by government / medical insurance, NOT by the consumer when they buy the items.

You either have to tax the junk food items or build the costs into medical coverage that has rebates for proven good diet / exercise (or basically, pricing scale on bodyfat %).

You need the public to have cold hard cash in hand for being fit. You need fat people to pay thousands of dollars more per year for health coverage. You need fit healthy people to have thousands of dollars more in their hands to spend as they wish.

And you need everybody to know this. Because cold hard cash in hand is tangible / desirable, where distant future potential sickness from obesity is easy to ignore when there is a yummy donut in front of you.

And FFS bring back ephedra and prohormones and ban smoking and ritalin.

[quote]pookie wrote:
sic wrote:
I hate fast food joints almost as much as tobacco companies.

Corporations, by law, are required to maximize their profits for their shareholders.
[/quote]

Not exactly. There is no law on the books that says corporations must maximize their profits for their shareholders. If that were true there would probably be the death penalty for CEO’s that receive multi-million dollar salaries yet are at the helm of corporations that can’t turn a profit.

What you probably wanted to say was that management’s responsibility should be to maximize profits for their shareholders.

The former would also make donations, charity work, etc from corporations. illegal. Wouldn’t that be fun!

  • Mark

[quote]Mark P wrote:
pookie wrote:
sic wrote:
I hate fast food joints almost as much as tobacco companies.

Corporations, by law, are required to maximize their profits for their shareholders.

Not exactly. There is no law on the books that says corporations must maximize their profits for their shareholders. If that were true there would probably be the death penalty for CEO’s that receive multi-million dollar salaries yet are at the helm of corporations that can’t turn a profit.

What you probably wanted to say was that management’s responsibility should be to maximize profits for their shareholders.

The former would also make donations, charity work, etc from corporations. illegal. Wouldn’t that be fun!

  • Mark

[/quote]

It is jungle law.

The shareholders responsibility is to buy and sell shares to maximise profit, to research companies and move money around. It is NOT the companies’ responsibility.

If shareholders neglect that responsibility then the entire market system falls on its arse. Which happens in cycles :slight_smile:

It is their responsibility because only they can buy and sell the shares, NOT the company CEOs …

Anyway that is all market theory

It should be government intervention on all companies that deal with health issues to put some regulation in there. It is illegal to sell poison hamburgers because of the health problems they cause. So why not tax them on health-damaging foods? which also has a delayed cost? blah blah blah

[quote]spartanpower wrote:

TF: I’m not attacking you in this response, so don’t take it that way.

My ENTIRE family (except my mom and one uncle) is at least 50 lbs overweight, with my two aunts being the fattest at at least 200 for the one and 250 for the other. My son’s grandmother probably weighs over 200 at 5’3". My dad is about 250 and just had his first heart attack. My mom’s dad died of a massive stroke when I was 18. He was about 60 pounds overweight. Both of my dad’s parents have had quadruple bypasses. My uncle has had a triple. All have had heart attacks and/or strokes, and all are very fat and unhealthy.

I hate fat people because I know what they’re doing to themselves. You can plead with them to lose weight until you’re blue in the face and they won’t listen. They don’t want to hear it, because they don’t want to feel bad about themselves. So they ride the Domino’s/KFC/McD’s/Krispy Kreme train all the way to the OR or the fucking morgue. They poison themselves every day with no regard for the people that they may end up leaving behind to pick up the pieces after they die prematurely.

When my mom called me and told me about my dad’s heart attack, I held my breath until she told me he was alive. Then I wished that I was there so I could beat him to death for not listening to me every fucking time I told him he needed to start watching his diet a little, exercising a little, and otherwise not being such a fat fuck.

I know for a fact that just because someone is fat doesn’t mean that they are lazy or stupid. In my family you’ll find the HARDEST working and most intelligent individuals you have ever met. My 250 lb whale of an aunt was a VP with PNC for 10 years before she retired and started her own business at the age of 40. My uncle with the triple bypass owns a prosperous packaging company. My grandfather that’s still alive is 80 years old and he still holds a full time job. My dad is the leading sales rep for an industrial waste removal company. Hard working and smart, yet completely fucking irresponsible with their own health. They know how to lose weight, they just lack the desire or the willingness to fucking suck it up and get it done.

It isn’t the government’s responsibility to help these people. It isn’t the fast food companies’ responsibility. It isn’t the schools’ responsibility. This is a cross that they (the fat people) have to bear, along with their loved ones. If you have overweight people that you care about, I suggest you do everything in your power to try and help them change for the better. I do all I can, and it’s a tough fight to get even the smallest response, but if I can keep my dad around long enough to see his grandson graduate from college, get married, and have great grandkids, then I’ll be happy with my efforts.[/quote]

Spartan, I didn’t take it as an attack, and I understand where your coming from.

My Dad drank and smoked himself to death. As a result, I neither drink nor smoke, as I swore as I watched him lying there in a hospital bed, that I would never put my kids through that.

But today, as I am walking to the gym, I see a lady with flat tire in the gym parking lot. She was obese, and was struggling. Did I ignore her? No. I changed her tire.

Why did I do it? Because she needed help. She is still a person, and she has limitations. Some people take drugs, some people cry, some people work out and others eat too much, as an outlet. Is it the best outlet? Hell no. But people do what they do. As I said before, I am less sympathetic to the steroid freaks who know what they are doing is wrong, and just don’t care.

People on here saying these people should die, thats just wrong. Just as you said, when your family is walking around, do you want people who managed to care for their bodies to be wishing death upon them?

I do think the goverment needs to regulate this area. The goverment is for the people, and if this epidemic as they call it doesn’t warrent attention, tell me what does?

As far as seeing someone in a gym, getting nowhere fast, I understand sometimes people don’t take advice. But sometimes they do. If I see someone struggling and they seem to need help, I will offer up some words. If they choose not to do it, thats their right. But stop and think. They are in the gym. If they are that obese, they are not there for looking at others. They want help. Whats the harm in helping out even if they never do it. Maybe at some point it will sink in. You didn’t lose anything in trying.

[quote]halfpintdd wrote:
I saw this article on the front page of the Health section in my local paper today. I couldn’t believe it. For me, the issue wasn’t about the money being spent to make the changes to the hospitals, but more about why the money isn’t being spent on preventative measures…and I don’t mean gastric bypass. It’s getting ridiculous that we have to learn to accomodate these people.
I had to laugh at the land whales comment above…James and I were at Super Wal Mart a few weeks back…we couldn’t help but talk about all the overweight people on the motor scooters. The worst part is that they are so heavy, the scooter can barely move. There was a mother and a daughter, both on scooters. They had a couple fat little kids walking next to them. We encountered them in the meat section, they were talking about frying up chicken thighs, and putting sausage and those breaded chicken patties in their baskets. Then a few feet away was another obese man on a scooter…it’s absurd! The worst part for me is the example these adults are setting for the children in their lives. It’s one thing to be overweight, but it’s a whole different ballgame when we’re talking about being so fat you can’t walk…how the hell do they wipe their own ass!!![/quote]

That’s very disturbing. And hillarious at the same time.

And to answer your question: with a rag and a stick.

[quote]Mark P wrote:
Not exactly. There is no law on the books that says corporations must maximize their profits for their shareholders. If that were true there would probably be the death penalty for CEO’s that receive multi-million dollar salaries yet are at the helm of corporations that can’t turn a profit.[/quote]

I’ve been told that there are laws requiring corporations to act in the best interest of their shareholders. That is generally seen as making a profit and keeping the stock price high.

Talking about the death penalty for bad CEOs is a bit excessive, but many have been sacked, often with a “golden parachute” after enriching themselves by artificially or illegally inflating the stock price for a short period. (Usually followed by a major crash of the stock. Nortel is a good example, here in Canada.)

Maybe someone well versed in american corporate law could clarify…

[quote]TigerFighter wrote:
I do think the goverment needs to regulate this area. The goverment is for the people, and if this epidemic as they call it doesn’t warrent attention, tell me what does?[/quote]

How would the government regulate this? How can you control how many bags of chips someone eats in his living room?

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Are you serious? I would’ve thought you’d be a little more intelligent than that. Obesity greatly increases the risk of acquiring virtually every disease (including cancer). HMOs have to pay for all the diseases that arise. They necessarily raise insurance rates to cover these costs. No doubt the system is corrupt and there are tremendous problems. But if HMOs didn’t raise costs to offset obesity-related illenesses, they’d be operating at at loss (or at least less of a profit). Though there are preferred rates (I believe) these costs are averaged. EVERYONE, obese and non-obese alike, would be paying less if there was less obesity and less obesity-related illness.

I apprecaite the backhanded compliment… I think.

I agree that if less people were obese then insurance rates could theroetically go down. But the gist of my point is that obesity related health issues is such a small part of the rising costs of healthcare that it’s unfair to point at it as the end all be all factor.

You want to know where the biggest cost increase is from, and this is documented. Malpractice insurance. Healthcare costs on the medical side, i.e. doctor’s fees, anesthesiologists fees, etc. have skyrocketed becuase their insurance premiums have gone up. They are just passing the costs on to us, which get passed on to our insurance companies which raise our rates.

So it’s unfair to obese people to treat them like they are single-handedly costing you more money. The 15 year old who drops out of high school to eventually go on welfare will cost you more in the long run.[/quote]

I suppose I agree to a degree. There are many big if not bigger problems with our healthcare system. Mostly it’s institutional structure. But what percentage of our funds go to combat lifestyle-related diseases? I would bet quite a large percentage. This would be drastically reduced if people ate right and exercised. And it’s certainly one of the bigger problems facing our country if not our the main culprit behind the deficiences of healthcare.

[quote]pookie wrote:
TigerFighter wrote:
I do think the goverment needs to regulate this area. The goverment is for the people, and if this epidemic as they call it doesn’t warrent attention, tell me what does?

How would the government regulate this? How can you control how many bags of chips someone eats in his living room?

[/quote]

Simple. Fat tax. (The tax raises exponentially for evey %BF you are over, the limit.)

By doing so, you effectivelly reduce the amount of money the lardass has to stuff himself with food.

Or simply increase hospital fees for obese patients.

[quote]pookie wrote:
TigerFighter wrote:
I do think the goverment needs to regulate this area. The goverment is for the people, and if this epidemic as they call it doesn’t warrent attention, tell me what does?

How would the government regulate this? How can you control how many bags of chips someone eats in his living room?

[/quote]

You can’t. But you can make nutrition information easier to read. I saw on the news there was a blueberry muffin that boasted only 150 calories per serving. They then added in small print serving size three. For one muffin.

You can teach kids how to read a label on food. Schools have no issue dishing out fries everday, but not salad. Teach em young, and they will pay heed. I hear all the time about kids teaching their relatives a new language, but why not nutrition?

You make it so a small salad isn’t more expensive than your average fast food deluxe meal supersized with 8 times the calories.

No you can’t control what people will dump into their bodies. But you can at least provide detailed information on what they are consuming and make portions proper sized. Its a start, and its controllable.