[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Socialism will never work in a society that is retarded.
Capitalsim will never work in a society that is immoral.
There is no cure for people being people.[/quote]
Preach it BRO
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
And where did you hear this shit? It amazes me you say this shit like it is written in the BIBLE[/quote]
That’s because I know for a fact when I am trusted with my own property any creep whom deigns tread upon it will be punished.
However with socialism we get Wall Street creeps being bailed out.
Now, reevaluate your position and tell me exactly how I am wrong.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
You don’t work, you don’t eat.
[/quote]
Fascism – We get to eat whatever the overlords permit us
Socialism – We can eat whatever we want so long as we find the slaves to produce it for us.
Communism – tonight we eat fish!
Capitalism – I get to eat what I want, whenever I want, and how much of it I am willing to produce for myself.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
And where did you hear this shit? It amazes me you say this shit like it is written in the BIBLE[/quote]
That’s because I know for a fact when I am trusted with my own property any creep whom deigns tread upon it will be punished.
However with socialism we get Wall Street creeps being bailed out.
Now, reevaluate your position and tell me exactly how I am wrong.[/quote]
Once again you fail to answer my question, and you proceed to spout your personal form of bullshit:)
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
You don’t work, you don’t eat.
[/quote]
Fascism – We get to eat whatever the overlords permit us
Socialism – We can eat whatever we want so long as we find the slaves to produce it for us.
Communism – tonight we eat fish!
Capitalism – I get to eat what I want, whenever I want, and how much of it I am willing to produce for myself.
[/quote]
I did not hear it.
I watch reality happen and I logically deduced it from the stand point of rational self interest.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
You don’t work, you don’t eat.
[/quote]
Fascism – We get to eat whatever the overlords permit us
Socialism – We can eat whatever we want so long as we find the slaves to produce it for us.
Communism – tonight we eat fish!
Capitalism – I get to eat what I want, whenever I want, and how much of it I am willing to produce for myself.
[/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit[/quote]
Which you apparently need a wiki link to understand. Yes, this pretty much sums up all you are capable of bringing to the table in these forums.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
I did not hear it.
I watch reality happen and I logically deduced it from the stand point of rational self interest.[/quote]
I do not totally disagree with you, but state your point of view as being fact and
we all have different perspective.
And if you overstate your point of veiw as fact it is definably BULLSHIT
As far as you making some one pay for a transgression on your property, be very careful my friend, that is dangerous talk
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
You don’t work, you don’t eat.
[/quote]
Fascism – We get to eat whatever the overlords permit us
Socialism – We can eat whatever we want so long as we find the slaves to produce it for us.
Communism – tonight we eat fish!
Capitalism – I get to eat what I want, whenever I want, and how much of it I am willing to produce for myself.
[/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit[/quote]
Which you apparently need a wiki link to understand. Yes, this pretty much sums up all you are capable of bringing to the table in these forums.[/quote]
I put a link for your convenience 
And yet you do not defend any of your points of view regarding the “bullshit” I am supposedly posting.
You state it as fact and by your own submission it must be BULLSHIT.
And in your reality all facts must then also be bullshit.
Which means you cannot ever be capable of the understanding and hence the reason we must constantly have the same discussions with you ad infintum.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
And yet you do not defend any of your points of view regarding the “bullshit” I am supposedly posting.
You state it as fact and by your own submission it must be BULLSHIT.
And in your reality all facts must then also be bullshit.
Which means you cannot ever be capable of the understanding and hence the reason we must constantly have the same discussions with you ad infintum.[/quote]
I will summerize your post NONSENSE AKA BULLSHIT
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
And yet you do not defend any of your points of view regarding the “bullshit” I am supposedly posting.
You state it as fact and by your own submission it must be BULLSHIT.
And in your reality all facts must then also be bullshit.
Which means you cannot ever be capable of the understanding and hence the reason we must constantly have the same discussions with you ad infintum.[/quote]
I will summerize your post NONSENSE AKA BULLSHIT :)[/quote]
You are a man-child.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
And yet you do not defend any of your points of view regarding the “bullshit” I am supposedly posting.
You state it as fact and by your own submission it must be BULLSHIT.
And in your reality all facts must then also be bullshit.
Which means you cannot ever be capable of the understanding and hence the reason we must constantly have the same discussions with you ad infintum.[/quote]
I will summerize your post NONSENSE AKA BULLSHIT :)[/quote]
You are a man-child.[/quote]
now you are silly:)
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Socialism is the political expression of unselfishness (altruism). It therefore drains the productive for the benefit of those who aren’t. It is the exact opposite of a meritocracy.[/quote]
It is no such thing. You don’t work, you don’t eat. I’m not sure how else to say this so that you can understand it.
[/quote]
Interesting. What happens if someone doesn’t want to share what they have? Suppose a farmer simply keeps his milk, eggs, and corn for himself and his family?
[quote]florelius wrote:
this is typicall utopian socialisme. you cant start an island of socialisme in a capitalist sea. its been tried many times and it does not work. it is obvius why it doesnt work.
The only way to establish socialisme is trough a revolution, it meens the majority ofthe people abolish the capitalist state and create there owne, and that they nationalize big bussines and give the control to the workers. This can offcourse fail, but if the average person is educated of some sort it has a possibility to sucseed. this meens that a country like the usa or norway can have socialisme because the people have basic education.
[/quote]
I am sorry I don’t understand why it wouldn’t work. Please explain it to me.
The socialist commune should do just fine in my mind, if it works the way socialism says it will. The workers will get more money, they should be producing plenty and competing well, they will be happy and motivated. This commune should lead by example and I’m sure more and more people would hop on the train. But, if as you say, it has been tried many times and it failed, that sounds like a problem. I am interested in learning why exactly it failed.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
The only way to establish socialisme is trough a revolution, it meens the majority ofthe people abolish the capitalist state and create there owne, and that they nationalize big bussines and give the control to the workers. [/quote]
You see?
Just as I said, you socialists are, when it comes down to it, thieves taking by armed force. What, everyone is going to want to give up their businesses and property and do so voluntarily? No, you advocate taking it by violence, often with killing, or threat of violence.
(Name another method of taking where the owner does not want to hand over his property.)
Was it you or another that claimed socialism doesn’t need government, though this force must be exerted and/or credibly threatened?
If not government exerting this force, then what? A mob of you socialists with fists and clubs and perhaps more?[/quote]
I said that there are now goverment in communisme, thats the phase after socialisme, so you need socialisme before communisme.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
The only way to establish socialisme is trough a revolution, it meens the majority ofthe people abolish the capitalist state and create there owne, and that they nationalize big bussines and give the control to the workers. [/quote]
You see?
Just as I said, you socialists are, when it comes down to it, thieves taking by armed force. What, everyone is going to want to give up their businesses and property and do so voluntarily? No, you advocate taking it by violence, often with killing, or threat of violence.
(Name another method of taking where the owner does not want to hand over his property.)
Was it you or another that claimed socialism doesn’t need government, though this force must be exerted and/or credibly threatened?
If not government exerting this force, then what? A mob of you socialists with fists and clubs and perhaps more?[/quote]
I said that there are now goverment in communisme, thats the phase after socialisme, so you need socialisme before communisme.[/quote]
I really don’t see how that answers my question or addresses the issues at all.
[quote]harduser wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
this is typicall utopian socialisme. you cant start an island of socialisme in a capitalist sea. its been tried many times and it does not work. it is obvius why it doesnt work.
The only way to establish socialisme is trough a revolution, it meens the majority ofthe people abolish the capitalist state and create there owne, and that they nationalize big bussines and give the control to the workers. This can offcourse fail, but if the average person is educated of some sort it has a possibility to sucseed. this meens that a country like the usa or norway can have socialisme because the people have basic education.
[/quote]
I am sorry I don’t understand why it wouldn’t work. Please explain it to me.
The socialist commune should do just fine in my mind, if it works the way socialism says it will. The workers will get more money, they should be producing plenty and competing well, they will be happy and motivated. This commune should lead by example and I’m sure more and more people would hop on the train. But, if as you say, it has been tried many times and it failed, that sounds like a problem. I am interested in learning why exactly it failed.[/quote]
some of the first socialist talked about this. they belived that they could start a commune in the middle of the society, and some of them did. after a short time they did not exist anymore. The problem with this form of socialisme is that it dont realize that a small commune most interact with the rest of the society to survive, and if the rest of the society is capitalist, then they most play by the rules. in other words they most produce for profit so they can trade with the big society. In socialisme you dont produce for profit, you produce only what the people need and wants. So therfor they had to become capitalist or shut down. Thats why you need a revolution of the society. ps the revolution thus not need to be violent, but the capitalistclass will often defend there power with guns.
It is not his land to begin with. If society wishes to improve it, they may do so, as was done for centuries before capitalism was ever thought of.
The same things that have motivated innovation throughout human history. Curiosity, a sense of accomplishment, a desire to help, etc.
Though it should be said that this in no way precludes some type of “better pay for better productivity” system.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
The only way to establish socialisme is trough a revolution, it meens the majority ofthe people abolish the capitalist state and create there owne, and that they nationalize big bussines and give the control to the workers. [/quote]
You see?
Just as I said, you socialists are, when it comes down to it, thieves taking by armed force. What, everyone is going to want to give up their businesses and property and do so voluntarily? No, you advocate taking it by violence, often with killing, or threat of violence.
(Name another method of taking where the owner does not want to hand over his property.)
Was it you or another that claimed socialism doesn’t need government, though this force must be exerted and/or credibly threatened?
If not government exerting this force, then what? A mob of you socialists with fists and clubs and perhaps more?[/quote]
I said that there are now goverment in communisme, thats the phase after socialisme, so you need socialisme before communisme.[/quote]
I really don’t see how that answers my question or addresses the issues at all.[/quote]
ok, socialisme is not theft, its the workers who has produced all the welth who are claiming whats rightfully theres. please read proudhons “property is theft”
socialisme= the state of the proletariat.
communisme= the classless society, and without a state. ( think like hundreds of years after the revolution, nobody will think in terms of privat property any more, just like nobody thinks like they did in feudalisme anymore ). offcourse this is only if we do have a succsesful revolution that are able to create a socialist democracy, then maybe the society will over time turn into communisme.