Lifter,
Looks like you have low FT, which essentially means like alot(or most) men past middle age you have low testosterone.
Read this page as much as possible
Go here as well - musclechatroom.com
So where do you think you’re at?
Numbers by themselves are fairly meaningless. It’s how you feel that really matters. What, if any, problems are you having? Or to put it another way; what symptoms are you presenting?
Thanks Out the Door and Dog, honestly no problems or symptoms at all. Train and lift hard 3 to 4 times per week. Diet is great. Bodyfat is not coming off like I think it should.
My physican is suggesting 200 mg of cyp per week, no HCG or any other medications. Like many guys on this thread and forums, it took three doctors to find one that would discuss HRT.
Found this site while researching lifting articles and did not give blood profiles much thought until I found these threads.
It appears that low T, even without symptoms may lead to so many other problems.
Anyway, thought I would throw my numbers up, and the proposal for changing the low T. I simply want to be as healthy and have my body hitting on all cylinders as possible.
Thanks again.
[quote]Lifter123 wrote:
Thanks Out the Door and Dog, honestly no problems or symptoms at all. Train and lift hard 3 to 4 times per week. Diet is great. Bodyfat is not coming off like I think it should.
My physican is suggesting 200 mg of cyp per week, no HCG or any other medications.
Anyway, thought I would throw my numbers up, and the proposal for changing the low T. I simply want to be as healthy and have my body hitting on all cylinders as possible.
Thanks again.[/quote]
Something is wacky.
It seems unlikely that your free testosterone is normal (58) and the total testosterone is 288.
Is there a transcription error? Or a lab error altogether? If you are taking DHEA, consider stopping it…it can do wacky things and its metabolic fate is difficult to predict.
In short, before committing yourself to TRT, consider re-testing. (In some cases, I have asked patients to have 2 samples drawn, hours apart, and pooled together. For the cost of one test, you get a sense of “average” T, particularly when the lab is in doubt.)
My urologist says he has seen cases before where total T was low, but free T was in the normal range.
Lifter,
If I were you with your numbers and your lack of symptoms, I’d be thinking more about E2 control and less about TRT right now.
You could try one or two drops a day of anastrozole and probably see a decline in E2 and a raising of T with no major disruptions to your HPTA.
I’d definitely try to avoid full blown TRT unless I really felt it was necessary.
O kay thank you guys, I really appreciate the comments. there seems to be more knowledge here then in Doctor’s Office(s).
I will go with trying one drop of anastrozole per day, and see how things go. Will retest for T levels and hold off on HRT at this point.
Most doc suck on this treatment, I have found this out I I am onlt a few months into treatment.
makes me wonder if they equally are poor in other medical issues
I have reviewed the lab report again, and it has:
Free T 58 (47 to 244)
Total T 288 (350 to 900)
Free T % 2.0 (1.6 to 2.9)
I will continue to retest, good insurance at work covers it.
I found this message on another board and found it interesting:
A BIG POINT to anyone getting diagnosed and treated: The Total Testosterone Level blood test is only one component to test among many. Thyroid and Estridol levels should be considered, too.
- The most important indicator for me has been the Free Testosterone Level, it’s a smaller percentage of the Total Testosterone level, but, it’s a very simple litmus test, If your Free T level is within the normal range, you will not experience symptoms of Andropause. If your Free T is below normal - almost certainly, you will display symptoms. This is regardless of your Total T level. Free T is the truest indicator of this condition.
This is why some men get treatment, but do not feel better (Free T is not within range, more T is required to raise the level of Free T), and also why some men have low total levels, but still feel good. (Level of Free T is normal)
It is really amazing how many clinicians and patients focus on the Total T level, and do not bother to check the Free T level. It is the most important indicator of male hormonal health!
For those of you(Ksman included) who continue to rely on outdated estrogen testing methods, here is an excerpt from an authority on the matter, Dr. Crisler.
"I have run E assays from labs all over the country, every day, many times, for six years straight. I have also interacted with literally thousands of men on the Boards. That provides me as much experience in this field as anyone out there.
I cannot accept the range provided for many E assays, i.e. “less than 20”, when we know men can be in a situation where they produce very little estrogen. That means adult male range is below the sensitivity of the assay methodology.
I have been running the Ultrasensitive Estradiol from Quest Diagnostics for many years now. Often, due to the logistics particular to this industry, often the standard estradiol is run concurrently (therefore from the exact same sample), and both results appear on the printed report. THIS is where the truth came out: most often the standard assay is very much different from the Ultrasensitive; and patients’ subjective report match the Ultrasensitive, not the less accurate assay!
BTW, the standard assay is almost always much higher of the two. This means many men are being treated with anti-estrogens when they should not be (and to their detriment); it also means that certain doctors who mistakenly believe elevated estrogens are of no significance to adult males may think so because they are relying upon assays which report too high.
I am as certain of this as I have been about anything in my life. It has been proven to me many hundreds of times."
1 Like
[quote]Get out the Door wrote:
THIS is where the truth came out: most often the standard assay is very much different from the Ultrasensitive; and patients’ subjective report match the Ultrasensitive, not the less accurate assay!
[/quote]
So presumably his patients subjectively report that they are not suffering from relatively high e2:T ratio. Surprising & interesting.
Even more evidence proving Urine testing over serum testing. I will drill this into your heads for as long as it takes.
Taken from LEF’s latest magazine, aug 2008
"Hormones produced in the body are secreted in pulses, while hormones taken transdermally or orally will initially be very high and then slowly decline over the course of the day. This scientific reality makes testing for estriol at a single point in time - as would be the case for serum(blood) or saliva testing - VERY INACCURATE. There are too many variables. When did your body last put out a pulse of the hormone under investigation? When did you take your HRT? Estriol in particular does not last long in the blood. In fact, the half life of estriol has been shown to be between 3.6 and 64 MINUTES!
The more accurate way to assess estriol is by collecting what is excreted during a 24 hour urine collection. This form of testing ensures that we have an accurate value that is not affected by the fluctuations of the day, because we are measuring 24 hours worth of hormone production.
[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Get out the Door wrote:
THIS is where the truth came out: most often the standard assay is very much different from the Ultrasensitive; and patients’ subjective report match the Ultrasensitive, not the less accurate assay!
So presumably his patients subjectively report that they are not suffering from relatively high e2:T ratio. Surprising & interesting.[/quote]
Probably both are lower than they show up in bloods
[quote]matthewt wrote:
Most doc suck on this treatment, I have found this out I I am onlt a few months into treatment.
makes me wonder if they equally are poor in other medical issues[/quote]
They are.
We are still in the stone ages of medical science.
But that makes me more excited, optimistic than pessimistic.
Just think at how far we can truly go!
Good point and by the way the only labs Crisler uses now are 24 hour urine.
$225 Rhein Consulting Labs. A Dr has to order it and they’ll send you the kit.
Please explain this too me
Dr Crisler suggest the Ultrasensitive Estradiol from Quest Diagnostics as the coorect test,yest as Wise point out frm LEF’s magazine it states
‘‘Estriol in particular does not last long in the blood. In fact, the half life of estriol has been shown to be between 3.6 and 64 MINUTES!’’
The more accurate way to assess estriol is by collecting what is excreted during a 24 hour urine collection. This form of testing ensures that we have an accurate value that is not affected by the fluctuations of the day, because we are measuring 24 hours worth of hormone production.
I wonder what crisler would say about this test be Rhein labs