what “cause” would that be exactly ?
do you think if the tables were turned and it was arabs, not israelis who had military superiority Israel would exist? They just want to be left the fuck alone while their nice neighbors have been trying to “push ze joos” into the sea from the very first day of Israel’s existence.
As for your google search not sure what the point is.
I’m sure the Palestinians would like to left alone as well. Kind of hard to though when the IDF snipers use you for target practice or they simply bulldoze your homes.
The point is both sides do nasty things. The only difference is one side resorts to throwing rocks and strapping bombs to themselves, because that’s all they can do, while the other side uses weapons/aid supplied to them with U.S. tax dollars. See why some of us might object to that?
The point of the link? Go read the contents.[/quote]
“palestine”, egypt etc - they get US tax dollars as well. again, it’s a way of imposing control, can’t send gis everywhere you know. except of course, they dance on the streets after smth like 9/11 happens here while Israel is probably the most trustworthy ally US has besides maybe the UK.
as for the links - look at my links. look at yours. think.
[quote]ReignIB wrote:
what do you think is the solution to the arab-israeli conflict ?
[/quote]
All Jews not originally from Israel must go home. All foreign bribes to Israeli government must stop.[/quote]
All Arabs not originally from Palestine must go home. That would empty it out.[/quote]
Good point. 90% of them would end up in Jordan and Syria.
About 10% would be the ones who fled to the shore so they don’t get hit by the “friendly fire” of Arab armies invading Israel in the previous wars.
[quote]orion wrote:
Jewbacca tried to discredit all the organizations I have listed as Arab shills,
[/quote]
Not exactly. I accused you of cherry picking and chosing crap to fit your anti-semetic agenda.
But, yes, there is, indeed, an unholy alliance between the left and anti-semites, just as there always has been. Remember, Hitler was a socialist.
I could pick any of your sources and show you, but, you would deny the facts, just like you deny the Shoa and make meaningless moral equivocations about arabs who kill school children and the soldiers who kill killers.
Unlike you, however, I am gainfully employed and don’t have the time.
Nor the motivation, as you are an insignificant nothing.
But, for the readers of this thread, I’ll pick a seemingly mainstream liberal source: Time Magazine. Let’s see what Google produces about your article:
“Time Magazine Takes Its Israel Hatred to a New Level”
“The biased statements and factual inaccuracies in [Times] latest piece are honestly too numerous to go through for a line-by-line rebuttal, but hereâ??s a brief rundown of the worst of it.”
Sorry, but it’s not as clear cut as you make it out to be: Jews good, Arabs bad.
[/quote]
True, there are plenty of good arabs who are productive citizens of Israel.
But, yes, the ones who sent a retarded boy, strapped him with explosives, and killed my wife an unborn child are evil and foul. I am confident they, and anyone who defends them, will not be counted among the rightous among the nations at the end of time.
[quote]
From what I’ve read, the reason why Arafat initially declined that “great” offer of land from Israel (I think it was Camp David? I know it was during Clinton’s time) was due to a provision the offer had for the “natural growth” of settlements, meaning unfettered expansion, which is what the Palestinians do NOT want. They want NO settlements and even for the people there to simply move out of that area. [/quote]
Not exactly. The offer was (the “Balfour Declaration” in 1917) to divide the land into two countries, more or less on the natural dividing lines between the areas where there heavy arab populations and heavy Jewish populations. The arabs would have none of this, and started killing their Jewish neighbors, with gradual greater help from Nazi Germany.
The offer on the table is to each country have a border, and have people live in it as they see fit.
The arabs refuse this.
BTW, “Natural Growth” means growing by having children, and not new people moving in. It’s not “unfettered expansion.” It’s only relevant during the disputed period where the arabs in Gaza refuse to recogonize borders. (The “settlements” are within the borders of Israel, but in areas that the arabs demand to be free of Jews.)
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
I don’t think anyone believes all acts of Israel are good or even justified. They certainly cross the line and have their share of hardliners and out right psychotics but the fact remains that if they lay down their arms they will be wiped out. If the Arabs lay down their arms there will be peace.
[/quote]
Sure, if you just roll over and spread em there is peace.
Somehow Arabs are not very good at that, it just does not work that way for people who have very little to lose.
[/quote]
Roll over and spread them? Give me a break. Arab-Israelis are better off than Arabs anywhere else in the Muslim world. You are clearly not capable of honest discussion on this subject. [/quote]
In the interest of full-disclosure: I wasn’t joking; for those that don’t know, both of Orion’s grandfathers were Nazis. One a Nazi leader.
Decide for yourself if that has any relevance to this discussion.[/quote]
Yes, he likes telling people about his Nazi patriarchs.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
I don’t think anyone believes all acts of Israel are good or even justified. They certainly cross the line and have their share of hardliners and out right psychotics but the fact remains that if they lay down their arms they will be wiped out. If the Arabs lay down their arms there will be peace.
[/quote]
Sure, if you just roll over and spread em there is peace.
Somehow Arabs are not very good at that, it just does not work that way for people who have very little to lose.
[/quote]
Roll over and spread them? Give me a break. Arab-Israelis are better off than Arabs anywhere else in the Muslim world. You are clearly not capable of honest discussion on this subject. [/quote]
In the interest of full-disclosure: I wasn’t joking; for those that don’t know, both of Orion’s grandfathers were Nazis. One a Nazi leader.
Decide for yourself if that has any relevance to this discussion.[/quote]
Yes, he likes telling people about his Nazi patriarchs. [/quote]
None whatsoever, I didnt know either of them.
I only know that one if them was a Nazi, way before it was cool because I did some reserch.
Still does not change that Israel indeed targets civilians.
[quote]orion wrote:
Jewbacca tried to discredit all the organizations I have listed as Arab shills,
[/quote]
Not exactly. I accused you of cherry picking and chosing crap to fit your anti-semetic agenda.
But, yes, there is, indeed, an unholy alliance between the left and anti-semites, just as there always has been. Remember, Hitler was a socialist.
I could pick any of your sources and show you, but, you would deny the facts, just like you deny the Shoa and make meaningless moral equivocations about arabs who kill school children and the soldiers who kill killers.
Unlike you, however, I am gainfully employed and don’t have the time.
Nor the motivation, as you are an insignificant nothing.
But, for the readers of this thread, I’ll pick a seemingly mainstream liberal source: Time Magazine. Let’s see what Google produces about your article:
“Time Magazine Takes Its Israel Hatred to a New Level”
“The biased statements and factual inaccuracies in [Times] latest piece are honestly too numerous to go through for a line-by-line rebuttal, but hereâ??s a brief rundown of the worst of it.”[/quote]
Making up shit again?
Not only have I never denied the Holocaust, there is also no evidence that I am an anti-semite.
There is also no evidence whatsover that I am not “gainfully employed” and it would be kind of hard to be a level 4 when it comes to Biotest products and only BS around on the internet for 5 years with out making money.
You are right though, I am not “gainfully employed” I work for noone else but me.
Your go-to reaction of not only accusing everyone of anti-semitism who does not agree with you but also calling everything else in their lifes into question is the mark of a sad, little man, no matter how much money you might or might not make.
[quote]orion wrote:
I only know that one if them was a Nazi…
[/quote]
Somebody’s changing the story, I think…[/quote]
Post evidence or STFU.
Now both have been officers in the Wehrmacht and I said that I think it is possible that the other one was a member of the party too, but it was quite possible to be in the party without even knowing it.
The other one most definitely was a Nazi back when it was still illegal in Austria and stopped being one when it was definitely not cool not being a Nazi.
I dont know what he had done or seen in Russia that made him doubt that it was a good idea, but it probably was not pretty.
Hey, you have the new and improved search function, prove me wrong jackass.
[quote]orion wrote:
I only know that one if them was a Nazi…
[/quote]
Somebody’s changing the story, I think…[/quote]
Post evidence or STFU.
Now both have been officers in the Wehrmacht and I said that I think it is possible that the other one was a member of the party too, but it was quite possible to be in the party without even knowing it.
The other one most definitely was a Nazi back when it was still illegal in Austria and stopped being one when it was definitely not cool not being a Nazi.
I dont know what he had done or seen in Russia that made him doubt that it was a good idea, but it probably was not pretty.
Hey, you have the new and improved search function, prove me wrong jackass.
[/quote]
You spread transparent lies about Israel intentionally targeting civilians, and then equivocate whatever isolated crap you come up with the Gazan arab blowing themselves up in pizza parlors filled with people watching football (soccer) games, blowing up school buses, and shelling elementary schools.
You brag about your Nazi or wanna-be Nazi ancestors.
Yeah, I feel pretty comfortable saying you are a parents’-basement dwelling loser who blames the fact he is a loser on Jooooooos.
Sorry, the reason you are a loser is because you’re a loser.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
I don’t think anyone believes all acts of Israel are good or even justified. They certainly cross the line and have their share of hardliners and out right psychotics but the fact remains that if they lay down their arms they will be wiped out. If the Arabs lay down their arms there will be peace.
[/quote]
Sure, if you just roll over and spread em there is peace.
Somehow Arabs are not very good at that, it just does not work that way for people who have very little to lose.
[/quote]
Roll over and spread them? Give me a break. Arab-Israelis are better off than Arabs anywhere else in the Muslim world. You are clearly not capable of honest discussion on this subject. [/quote]
In the interest of full-disclosure: I wasn’t joking; for those that don’t know, both of Orion’s grandfathers were Nazis. One a Nazi leader.
Decide for yourself if that has any relevance to this discussion.[/quote]
Yes, he likes telling people about his Nazi patriarchs. [/quote]
That’d be like bragging about sex-offender parents. Pathetic on many levels, true or not.
Someone asked how to end the conflict and I answered the only way it can happen – property rights or not.
I did not say there should be force use to make it happen.
So you see, the conflict will not end until one side kills the other side if these things do not happen voluntarily.
As long as my money is not being stolen from me to support the bloodshed of one side by the other I don’t care who it is that is wiped out. Neither Jews nor Arabs, collectively, mean anything to people who just want to live in peace.
Maybe, the Israeli government/military is like its big brother the U.S. and A, and doesn’t intentionally target civilians. You know, because when you don’t mean to and civilians are killed anyway, well then it doesn’t count and all responsibility is absolved.
Either way, the Israeli military does indeed kill civilians. No, not “killers” as you claim, but legit innocent civilians.
Maybe, the Israeli government/military is like its big brother the U.S. and A, and doesn’t intentionally target civilians. You know, because when you don’t mean to and civilians are killed anyway, well then it doesn’t count and all responsibility is absolved.
Either way, the Israeli military does indeed kill civilians. No, not “killers” as you claim, but legit innocent civilians.
[/quote]
Did you see the links about the massacres I posted.
True, the largest one was not committed by Israeli soldiers.
They just surrounded the civilian camps, bussed the Christian militia in and turned the lights on so they could slaughter to their hearts delight.
But here is the kicker:
[quote]
Israeli population demands investigation
In its initial statements, the Israeli government declared that those critics who regarded the IDF as having responsibility for the events at Sabra and Shatila were guilty of "a blood libel against the Jewish state and its Government ." However, as the news of the massacre spread around the world, the controversy grew, and on September 25, 300,000 Israelisâ??roughly one-tenth of the country’s population at the timeâ??demonstrated in Tel Aviv demanding answers. The protest, known in Israel as the “400,000 protest” (the number of protesters was first exaggerated) was one of the biggest in Israel’s history.
[edit] Israel “indirect responsibility”
On September 28, the Israeli Government resolved to establish a Commission of Inquiry, which was led by former Supreme Court Justice Yitzhak Kahan. The report included evidence from Israeli army personnel, as well as political figures and Phalangist officers. In the report, published in February 1983, the Kahan Commission stated that there was no evidence that Israeli units took direct part in the massacre and that it was the “direct responsibility of Phalangists.” However, the Commission recorded that Israeli military personnel were aware that a massacre was in progress without taking serious steps to stop it, and that reports of a massacre in progress were made to senior Israeli officers and even to an Israeli cabinet minister; it therefore regarded Israel as bearing part of the “indirect responsibility.”
[edit] Sharon “personal responsibility”
The Kahan commission found that Ariel Sharon “bears personal responsibility”[28], recommended his dismissal from the post of Defense Minister and concluded that Sharon should not hold public office again, stating that:
It is our view that responsibility is to be imputed to the minister of defense for having disregarded the prospect of acts of vengeance and bloodshed by the Phalangists against the population of the refugee camps and for having failed to take this danger into account when he decided to have the Phalangists enter the camps. In addition, responsibility is to be imputed to the minister of defense for not ordering appropriate measures for preventing or reducing the chances of a massacre as a condition for the Phalangists' entry into the camps
At first, Sharon refused to resign, and Begin refused to fire him. It was only after the death of Emil Grunzweig after a grenade was tossed into the dispersing crowd of a Peace Now protest march, which also injured ten others, that a compromise was reached: Sharon would resign as Defense minister, but remain in the Cabinet as a minister without portfolio. Notwithstanding the dissuading conclusions of the Kahan report, Sharon would later become Prime Minister of Israel.[29][30] [/quote]
Cliff notes:
Israeli soldiers surround refuge camp, bus their enemies in, fire flares so they can butcher them, lend them bulldozers so that they can bury the dead.
Word gets out, Israeli government accuses anyone of blood-libel (Blood libel - Wikipedia) who spreads the story, i.e. they claim that they are anti-semitic.
300000 Israelis, Arab shills, all of them, take to the streets and demand answers.
Government and military refuse top give any, tempers flare, people get killed.
Result:
Israeli government recognized that it kind of, might have, if one wants to be a stickler about things, might have had something to do with it.
Investigation commission declares Ariel Sharon directly responsible, he loses his job but stays in the cabinet anyway, goes on to become prime minister of Israel.
The thing is, it is not even debatable that such things have happened repeatedly.
[quote]orion wrote:
I only know that one if them was a Nazi…
[/quote]
Somebody’s changing the story, I think…[/quote]
Post evidence or STFU.
Now both have been officers in the Wehrmacht and I said that I think it is possible that the other one was a member of the party too, but it was quite possible to be in the party without even knowing it.
The other one most definitely was a Nazi back when it was still illegal in Austria and stopped being one when it was definitely not cool not being a Nazi.
I dont know what he had done or seen in Russia that made him doubt that it was a good idea, but it probably was not pretty.
Hey, you have the new and improved search function, prove me wrong jackass.
[/quote]
You spread transparent lies about Israel intentionally targeting civilians, and then equivocate whatever isolated crap you come up with the Gazan arab blowing themselves up in pizza parlors filled with people watching football (soccer) games, blowing up school buses, and shelling elementary schools.
You brag about your Nazi or wanna-be Nazi ancestors.
Yeah, I feel pretty comfortable saying you are a parents’-basement dwelling loser who blames the fact he is a loser on Jooooooos.
Sorry, the reason you are a loser is because you’re a loser.[/quote]
Ah, lying again?
I did not brag about them and I documented at least three cases where Israel specifically went after civilians.
Want some cheese with your whine, you sad, pathetic little man?
Again, don’t be pinching Klitchko if you don’t want your ass ktfo’d. If you do - don’t whine.
Israel doesn’t owe any explanation or justification of what they are doing more than any other country as their struggle in the middle east is the struggle to survive as a state literally from the very first day of their existence when arabs swore - to quote Abdel Nasser - “We are going to drive the Jews into the sea and wipe them out as a nation” - and the shitstorms that ensued.
Shit, if Israel wiped Iran out tomorrow - that would be totally fair imo based on Iranian leader’s “wipe ze joos of the face of the earth” rhetoric alone.
[quote]ReignIB wrote:
Again, don’t be pinching Klitchko if you don’t want your ass ktfo’d. If you do - don’t whine.
Israel doesn’t owe any explanation or justification of what they are doing more than any other country as their struggle in the middle east is the struggle to survive as a state literally from the very first day of their existence when arabs swore - to quote Abdel Nasser - “We are going to drive the Jews into the sea and wipe them out as a nation” - and the shitstorms that ensued.
Shit, if Israel wiped Iran out tomorrow - that would be totally fair imo based on Iranian leader’s “wipe ze joos of the face of the earth” rhetoric alone.
[/quote]
Sure, not more than any other country.
But also not less.
And any country/government massacring civilians and calling everyone an irrational, Nazi, Jew Hater and be proven wrong repeatedly deserves as much scorn and ridicule as every other nation.
I would also like to know how these CIVILIANS IN REFUGEE CAMPS posed any military thread to the state of Israel, specifically the killed women and children and how that does add up with Jewbaccas claims
Also, not only is the Iranian president a figurehead without any real power, he also never said what is claimed that he said. What he specifically said was:
Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.
Which translates as:
The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.
During his speach he points to several regimes that have “vanished from the pages of time”, like Husseins regime, the Sowjetunion and the Sha.
I am glad to see though that you at least need a shoddy translation, taken out of context, from the speech of a puppet, to justify mass murder.
"They say it is not possible to have a world without the United States and Zionism. But you know that this is a possible goal and slogan. Let’s take a step back. [[[We had a hostile regime in this country which was undemocratic, armed to the teeth and, with SAVAK, its security apparatus of SAVAK [the intelligence bureau of the Shah of Iran’s government] watched everyone.
An environment of terror existed.]]] When our dear Imam [Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Iranian revolution] said that the regime must be removed, many of those who claimed to be politically well-informed said it was not possible. All the corrupt governments were in support of the regime when Imam Khomeini started his movement.
[[[All the Western and Eastern countries supported the regime even after the massacre of September 7 [1978] ]]] and said the removal of the regime was not possible. But our people resisted and it is 27 years now that we have survived without a regime dependent on the United States. The tyranny of the East and the West over the world should have to end, but weak people who can see only what lies in front of them cannot believe this.
Who would believe that one day we could witness the collapse of the Eastern Empire? But we could watch its fall in our lifetime. And it collapsed in a way that we have to refer to libraries because no trace of it is left. Imam [Khomeini] said Saddam must go and he said he would grow weaker than anyone could imagine. Now you see the man who spoke with such arrogance ten years ago that one would have thought he was immortal, is being tried in his own country in handcuffs and shackles [[[by those who he believed supported him and with whose backing he committed his crimes]]].
Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime.
I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world."