“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”
Question and answer with Snowden.
[quote]pat wrote:
All you have to do to commit an act of terror is want to. ← Bet you that’s on an NSA computer. Fuck you NSA! Let me hit your trigger words: Terror, bomb, president, assassinate, republican, Tea Party, plane, water supply, poison, Uranium 238, plutonium, Pres. Bush, Iran, etc. So when you read this, I say to you go fuck yourself.[/quote]
first, second, fourth, fifth, amendment, homemade, explosive, survivalist, prepper, oppression, ruby ridge, waco, oklahoma city, anarchy, explosive…
kaczynski
It’s not paranoia if they really are spying on you. 
Dear NSA, I love America!
…backs out of thread slowly…
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Dear NSA, I love America!
…backs out of thread slowly…[/quote]
…but will be back frequently to see what is going on…
God Bless the USA!!!
I am just afraid this information will be used for political reasons. We have the IRS, OSHA, DOE, and DOJ targeting Conservatives whether at the direction of Obama or not, couldn’t the NSA be added to the list? I don’t know, but with all these scandals going on…you make the conclusion.
[quote]Jlabs wrote:
I think the government should work for the people. That being said, if these snooping programs work to stop really fucked up things from happening then go right on ahead. The internet is a two way street if your allowed to look at messed up stuff and have access to info that can be used in negative ways then why wouldn’t the government use it to make sure your not going to pull some crazy acts against innocent people. If you have nothing to hide then really who gives a shit. [/quote]
Do you have anything to hide? Why not give me your computer’s IP address, your phone number and your credit card statements. Oh and your personal Identification number/driver’s license number.
You don’t have anything to hide do you?
Lol. You guys crack me up!
Here’s the thing–you want our information? Ok–I’ll make you this trade—every email, phone call, text message, and credit card purchase of ALL the congressional representatives, senators, aides, and lobbyists will be put on a public access database on the internet. Along with their driver’s license numbers. You make that trade you can have my info. If not, get fucked because I don’t want to give away anything. This is MY life and MY business, and not yours.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
[quote]Jlabs wrote:
If you have nothing to hide then really who gives a shit.[/quote]
I’m aware that this fallacy works only on the presumption of guilt. That is, only guilty people have something to hide. While that may be true morally, it’s hardly true legally.
Like I said before, it’s an inversion of the natural order. I may or may not have something to hide, but my government is guilty as sin for secretly trying to find out what I have to hide and they’re doubly guilty for secretly trying to find out what I don’t have to hide.
[/quote]
Here’s the thing though: I’m not convinced that’s true morally either. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to refuse something–whether that’s this case or any other in business or whatever–on principle rather than out of necessity. In fact, it should be done routinely and the fact that it is not is most concerning to me particularly in this case and similar.
You see my kind of loyalty was loyalty to one’s country, not to its institutions, or its office holders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing, the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect the body from winter, disease, and death. To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags–this is loyalty to unreason, it is pure animal; it belongs to monarchy, was invented by monarchy; let monarchy keep it.
- A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court
The citizen who thinks he sees that the commonwealth’s political clothes are worn out, and yet holds his peace and does not agitate for a new suit, is disployal, he is a traitor. That he may be the only one who thinks he sees this decay does not excuse him: it is his duty to agitate anyway, and it is the duty of others to vote him down if they do not see the matter as he does.
- A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court
Timely, no? written over a hundred years ago and still schooling us.
The first thing I want to teach is disloyalty till they get used to disusing that word loyalty as representing a virtue. This will beget independence–which is loyalty to one’s best self and principles, and this is often disloyalty to the general idols and fetishes.
- Mark Twain’s Notebook
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I am just afraid this information will be used for political reasons. We have the IRS, OSHA, DOE, and DOJ targeting Conservatives whether at the direction of Obama or not, couldn’t the NSA be added to the list? I don’t know, but with all these scandals going on…you make the conclusion.[/quote]
That’s the thing…
It’s not just surveillance, but harassment that follows. That’s what the IRS targeting of Conservatives showed.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Lol. You guys crack me up!
Here’s the thing–you want our information? Ok–I’ll make you this trade—every email, phone call, text message, and credit card purchase of ALL the congressional representatives, senators, aides, and lobbyists will be put on a public access database on the internet. Along with their driver’s license numbers. You make that trade you can have my info. If not, get fucked because I don’t want to give away anything. This is MY life and MY business, and not yours.[/quote]
According to Snowden, Congress has an arrangement with the Intelligence Community to shield them from any of this electronic surveillance.
[quote]Revanchist wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Lol. You guys crack me up!
Here’s the thing–you want our information? Ok–I’ll make you this trade—every email, phone call, text message, and credit card purchase of ALL the congressional representatives, senators, aides, and lobbyists will be put on a public access database on the internet. Along with their driver’s license numbers. You make that trade you can have my info. If not, get fucked because I don’t want to give away anything. This is MY life and MY business, and not yours.[/quote]
According to Snowden, Congress has an arrangement with the Intelligence Community to shield them from any of this electronic surveillance.[/quote]
Exactly. If it’s law of the land then those fuckers can put their dirty laundry on the line with everyone else’s private lives. If not, then get the fuck out of my phone records, internet records, emails and purchases. if it’s not valuable enough for them to lead by example for once in their miserable lives, it’s clearly not valuable enough a thing for me to subject myself to.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I am just afraid this information will be used for political reasons. We have the IRS, OSHA, DOE, and DOJ targeting Conservatives whether at the direction of Obama or not, couldn’t the NSA be added to the list? I don’t know, but with all these scandals going on…you make the conclusion.[/quote]
That’s a really good point.
You don’t have to have “something to hide” for their snooping to be used against you.[/quote]
If you listen to Snowden’s interview with the Guardian - he makes the assertion that EVERYONE has committed a federal crime and, given enough time and creative editing, anyone could be convicted.
It’s happening. It’s happening right in front of us.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I am just afraid this information will be used for political reasons. We have the IRS, OSHA, DOE, and DOJ targeting Conservatives whether at the direction of Obama or not, couldn’t the NSA be added to the list? I don’t know, but with all these scandals going on…you make the conclusion.[/quote]
That’s the thing…
It’s not just surveillance, but harassment that follows. That’s what the IRS targeting of Conservatives showed. [/quote]
Precisely, I am not convinced there’s no link either.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Jlabs wrote:
I think the government should work for the people. That being said, if these snooping programs work to stop really fucked up things from happening then go right on ahead. The internet is a two way street if your allowed to look at messed up stuff and have access to info that can be used in negative ways then why wouldn’t the government use it to make sure your not going to pull some crazy acts against innocent people. If you have nothing to hide then really who gives a shit. [/quote]
Do you have anything to hide? Why not give me your computer’s IP address, your phone number and your credit card statements. Oh and your personal Identification number/driver’s license number.
You don’t have anything to hide do you?[/quote]
Like I said in a previous post, because of what I do I have access to a lot of people most private of private information. The only thing stopping me from doing anything with it is that I don’t want to. No desire, no interest, no motive. I just want to do my job and get my check. but the access is there. And when I am saying I have access to private info, I mean very private info.
Like Aragorn said, if you got nothing to hide post your most private and intimate things about your life. If you got nothing to hide, lets see it.
How much money do you make? How much is your house? How is your marriage? How is your relationship with your kids? What’s the nastiest thing you’ve looked up online? Do you have any homosexual feelings? What do you buy on-line? Do you do any drugs? Have you ever drank to much? Ever gossipped about anyone? What’s your credit score?
Oh, none of my fucking business? Precisely.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Here’s the thing though: I’m not convinced that’s true morally either. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to refuse something–whether that’s this case or any other in business or whatever–on principle rather than out of necessity. In fact, it should be done routinely and the fact that it is not is most concerning to me particularly in this case and similar.[/quote]
I don’t think we’re on too different of pages here. I said ‘may’ because I pretty surely believe that for every case of information denied on purely virtuous principle, there are several cases denied out of malicious intent. I see privacy (wrt information, not property) as a balance that needs to be continuously struck and is not a fundamental right. That is, the 1st is no more/less important than the 4th or 5th and, in these discussions, people tend to act like a/the ‘Right’ to privacy is unquestionable.
[quote]The first thing I want to teach is disloyalty till they get used to disusing that word loyalty as representing a virtue. This will beget independence–which is loyalty to one’s best self and principles, and this is often disloyalty to the general idols and fetishes.
- Mark Twain’s Notebook[/quote]
I can share this sentiment, and there’s plenty to my life that I would prefer remain in the past. I’m positive I’ve done things that would put me well into the psycho/socio-pathic category. Also, I’m aware, as pat points out, that there is information that I have that is not mine to share or disburse. However, I think they would be stupid to assume that information like that would remain contained forever and to assume that doing something people generally disapprove of without them knowing makes it okay.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
However, I think they would be stupid to assume that
[/quote]
Yes, because our gov’t is so incredibly intelligent 
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]lucasa wrote:
However, I think they would be stupid to assume that
[/quote]
Yes, because our gov’t is so incredibly intelligent ;)[/quote]
Or has public education so effectively dumbed down the populace that cradle-to-grave government ‘care’ and monitoring makes it seem as though DC is so intelligent?