[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Am I being naive here? I just can’t admit that politics would trump public safety when facing a potential epidemic. [/quote]
I would have been in your camp 10 years ago…but now I am firmly in the politics trump EVERYTHING camp.
Politicians will do anything and EVERYTHING to stay in power…in that respect, nothing has really changed in 10,000 years.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
This situation is very difficult to assess. I’m certainly an Obama critic, but this rhetoric that the president “Gave America Ebola” is absurd. I heard some guy on talk radio the other day screaming at the top of his lungs that Obama inflicted a plague on our country. This hysteria really is not helpful. I think the problem is the administration is not being forthcoming because they don’t want to fuel panic. I actually don’t think it’s as political as some may say.
How bad is it? I’m not sure, but I think some of this misinformation stems from trying to blunt public panic. But on the other hand, I don’t think a travel band would feed into that panic. If anything, it would breed confidence in that the administration is being proactive.
Am I being naive here? I just can’t admit that politics would trump public safety when facing a potential epidemic. [/quote]
The blame Obama deserves rests within his negligence to do anything. Ebola was acting up since the beginning of this year, and only now do they address this issue.
This is also not just with Ebola, look how late to the party this Admin is with ISIS, this is a systemic problem that starts with the man at the top. Obama is certainly not a leader by any means, and this idea of learning on the job is doing Americans no favors.
A travel ban for flights coming from West Africa should have been implemented long ago. Doctors and medical personnel going to West Africa is a whole other issue.
You don’t let Ebola get here, no matter what, even if it upsets a few people. Because the consequences of not doing something is much worse. You do not let an organism with a drastically high mortality rate even get started here.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
This situation is very difficult to assess. I’m certainly an Obama critic, but this rhetoric that the president “Gave America Ebola” is absurd. I heard some guy on talk radio the other day screaming at the top of his lungs that Obama inflicted a plague on our country. This hysteria really is not helpful. I think the problem is the administration is not being forthcoming because they don’t want to fuel panic. I actually don’t think it’s as political as some may say.
How bad is it? I’m not sure, but I think some of this misinformation stems from trying to blunt public panic. But on the other hand, I don’t think a travel band would feed into that panic. If anything, it would breed confidence in that the administration is being proactive.
Am I being naive here? I just can’t admit that politics would trump public safety when facing a potential epidemic. [/quote]
The blame Obama deserves rests within his negligence to do anything. Ebola was acting up since the beginning of this year, and only now do they address this issue.
This is also not just with Ebola, look how late to the party this Admin is with ISIS, this is a systemic problem that starts with the man at the top. Obama is certainly not a leader by any means, and this idea of learning on the job is doing Americans no favors.
A travel ban for flights coming from West Africa should have been implemented long ago. Doctors and medical personnel going to West Africa is a whole other issue.
You don’t let Ebola get here, no matter what, even if it upsets a few people. Because the consequences of not doing something is much worse. You do not let an organism with a drastically high mortality rate even get started here.
[/quote]
Places like Liberia and other festering shitholes of the same caliber used to be able to contain things like Ebola, much to their credit. Good thing for the world that many of their inhabitants are piss-poor and rarely ever get on a plane out of there.
All it took was one fool to fuck it up for us all, and our guard was down, more accurately… it was never up. Something should have been implemented here… just in case 6 months back. Unfortunately the American public is under the impression that the CDC and doctors have a handle on something like Ebola.
So it’s here… and now we learn on the fly. We’re playing catch up and fortunate to have only 2 nurses sick with it… so far. Duncan was red hot with Ebola on October 4th when he was admitted. Two weeks past that is about 2/3 of the incubation period, which is close enough to today. If we can squeak by another 10 days, we may have dodged a huge bullet.
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
This situation is very difficult to assess. I’m certainly an Obama critic, but this rhetoric that the president “Gave America Ebola” is absurd. I heard some guy on talk radio the other day screaming at the top of his lungs that Obama inflicted a plague on our country. This hysteria really is not helpful. I think the problem is the administration is not being forthcoming because they don’t want to fuel panic. I actually don’t think it’s as political as some may say.
How bad is it? I’m not sure, but I think some of this misinformation stems from trying to blunt public panic. But on the other hand, I don’t think a travel band would feed into that panic. If anything, it would breed confidence in that the administration is being proactive.
Am I being naive here? I just can’t admit that politics would trump public safety when facing a potential epidemic. [/quote]
The blame Obama deserves rests within his negligence to do anything. Ebola was acting up since the beginning of this year, and only now do they address this issue.
This is also not just with Ebola, look how late to the party this Admin is with ISIS, this is a systemic problem that starts with the man at the top. Obama is certainly not a leader by any means, and this idea of learning on the job is doing Americans no favors.
A travel ban for flights coming from West Africa should have been implemented long ago. Doctors and medical personnel going to West Africa is a whole other issue.
You don’t let Ebola get here, no matter what, even if it upsets a few people. Because the consequences of not doing something is much worse. You do not let an organism with a drastically high mortality rate even get started here.
[/quote]
Places like Liberia and other festering shitholes of the same caliber used to be able to contain things like Ebola, much to their credit. Good thing for the world that many of their inhabitants are piss-poor and rarely ever get on a plane out of there.
All it took was one fool to fuck it up for us all, and our guard was down, more accurately… it was never up. Something should have been implemented here… just in case 6 months back. Unfortunately the American public is under the impression that the CDC and doctors have a handle on something like Ebola.
So it’s here… and now we learn on the fly. We’re playing catch up and fortunate to have only 2 nurses sick with it… so far. Duncan was red hot with Ebola on October 4th when he was admitted. Two weeks past that is about 2/3 of the incubation period, which is close enough to today. If we can squeak by another 10 days, we may have dodged a huge bullet. [/quote]
It won’t change anything, there is now an Ebola scare at the Pentagon of all places. This is what happens when you don’t handle shit when it’s still relatively small.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
… This hysteria really is not helpful. I think the problem is the administration is not being forthcoming because they don’t want to fuel panic. I actually don’t think it’s as political as some may say.
How bad is it? I’m not sure, but I think some of this misinformation stems from trying to blunt public panic. But on the other hand, I don’t think a travel band would feed into that panic. If anything, it would breed confidence in that the administration is being proactive… [/quote]
For sure. There is a motive to stem public panic. Can you imagine what would happen to the economy if everybody started staying home because of something like Ebola? And the election is around the corner. They need to appear to have things under control.
If you look at some of the polls, there’s a loss of confidence in the government in general. Many of us no longer believe a lot of what we hear from our government officials, and wonder if they are being forthcoming or are telling the truth.
It’s easy to see why the loss of confidence.
IRS scandal and all those emails “lost”. People clearly lying, refusing to answer questions, and throwing low level people under the bus.
Secret Service scandal and embarrassing security breaches
Now all the ineptitude of the CDC
Commander-In-Chief seems to be out to lunch.
We hear our politicians speak, and we think, “This is a meaningless sound bite.” or “He is going through his talking points.” Then they are often unable to answer in depth questions. They say things that don’t make any sense, or in Obama’s case is just plain wrong. We think “They don’t really understand this situation.”
Constant corruption and ineptitude causes people to loose confidence.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
This situation is very difficult to assess. I’m certainly an Obama critic, but this rhetoric that the president “Gave America Ebola” is absurd. I heard some guy on talk radio the other day screaming at the top of his lungs that Obama inflicted a plague on our country. This hysteria really is not helpful. I think the problem is the administration is not being forthcoming because they don’t want to fuel panic. I actually don’t think it’s as political as some may say.
How bad is it? I’m not sure, but I think some of this misinformation stems from trying to blunt public panic. But on the other hand, I don’t think a travel band would feed into that panic. If anything, it would breed confidence in that the administration is being proactive.
Am I being naive here? I just can’t admit that politics would trump public safety when facing a potential epidemic. [/quote]
No, not at all. Notwithstanding the CDC stepping on its own dick, the public relations area you speak of is trying to do exactly that–prevent public panic. The media and the talk shows are doing the exact opposite and I. Cannot. Stand. It. The only thing worse than people who don’t trust experts is people who Panic and don’t trust experts. Do experts make mistakes, sometimes extremely damaging? Yes they sure do. Thalidomide anyone? But here’s the thing–these people work their entire lives to be extremely good at this one area, and the general public watches the Kardashians. Expertise needs to be respected even when disagreed with.
Speaking of politics though, not quite the same for politicians as say CDC infectious disease researchers (note the difference between “researcher” and “bloke on a plane with a badge”, because I’m doing it on purpose)
I am waiting for the foot to drop on the nurse from Dallas who flew to Cleveland and back again. It’s possible that she was symptomatic BEFORE she flew to Cleveland. One article stated she could come in contact with up to 800 people. Then there is the case where a health worker handled a specimen then got on a cruise ship. Although that person has not been symptomatic at this point, it seems like gross negligence on both of these individuals’ parts to put themselves in such situations so soon after having any contact with Ebola. What Dr. Skeptix said about allowing health workers to self-monitor could prove to be an egregious error.
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
New story coming out, man from Lagos dies on airline flight to JFK after vomiting extensively. After a “cursory” exam declared no ebola. Nydaily reports.
This is a huge fucking mistake. Whoever wants to thrash the CDC rep is more than welcome…this is unbelievable. I am personally trying to wait until I find out the details of said cursory exam and how they determined this outcome with certainty so fast, but based on what has come out so far it appears massive negligence on the officials part. [/quote]
While the outbreak in Nigeria seems to be contained, this recent analysis raises some concerns:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonfortenbury/2014/10/15/21-days-not-a-long-enough-quarantine-for-ebola-according-to-new-study/[/quote]
Perusing the full paper now. A previous study on survivors (I believe) had shown that there was EBOV antibodies found in sperm at day 40 (trying to find that study again but can’t at the moment). That always made me question the 21 day cycle. On the other hand since almost everybody develops symptoms between 3-8 days after exposure That’s a 200% margin of safety on quarantine time for most of the bell curve. I do have some questions about the author of the paper you linked though.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
I always thought of the CDC as the mecca for figuring out what to do and how to contain something serious… but not any more. They have done nothing other than stepping on their dicks at every turn.[/quote]
Hey, they just did a great study on why lesbians tend to be fat with the Ebola money. That’s an important priority.[/quote]
They have other priorities.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Edited[/quote]
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
This situation is very difficult to assess. I’m certainly an Obama critic, but this rhetoric that the president “Gave America Ebola” is absurd. I heard some guy on talk radio the other day screaming at the top of his lungs that Obama inflicted a plague on our country. This hysteria really is not helpful. I think the problem is the administration is not being forthcoming because they don’t want to fuel panic. I actually don’t think it’s as political as some may say.
How bad is it? I’m not sure, but I think some of this misinformation stems from trying to blunt public panic. But on the other hand, I don’t think a travel band would feed into that panic. If anything, it would breed confidence in that the administration is being proactive.
Am I being naive here? I just can’t admit that politics would trump public safety when facing a potential epidemic. [/quote]
The blame Obama deserves rests within his negligence to do anything. Ebola was acting up since the beginning of this year, and only now do they address this issue.
This is also not just with Ebola, look how late to the party this Admin is with ISIS, this is a systemic problem that starts with the man at the top. Obama is certainly not a leader by any means, and this idea of learning on the job is doing Americans no favors.
A travel ban for flights coming from West Africa should have been implemented long ago. Doctors and medical personnel going to West Africa is a whole other issue.
You don’t let Ebola get here, no matter what, even if it upsets a few people. Because the consequences of not doing something is much worse. You do not let an organism with a drastically high mortality rate even get started here.
[/quote]
Places like Liberia and other festering shitholes of the same caliber used to be able to contain things like Ebola, much to their credit. Good thing for the world that many of their inhabitants are piss-poor and rarely ever get on a plane out of there.
All it took was one fool to fuck it up for us all, and our guard was down, more accurately… it was never up. Something should have been implemented here… just in case 6 months back. Unfortunately the American public is under the impression that the CDC and doctors have a handle on something like Ebola.
So it’s here… and now we learn on the fly. We’re playing catch up and fortunate to have only 2 nurses sick with it… so far. Duncan was red hot with Ebola on October 4th when he was admitted. Two weeks past that is about 2/3 of the incubation period, which is close enough to today. If we can squeak by another 10 days, we may have dodged a huge bullet. [/quote]
It won’t change anything, there is now an Ebola scare at the Pentagon of all places. This is what happens when you don’t handle shit when it’s still relatively small.
I love it… let me see, I am queasy as fuck, got a fever… weak… muscle pain… and I just got back from Africa… I know… think I’ll hop on a DC bus tour and maybe go on over to the Pentagon…
Some of this shit sounds pretty deliberate to me. If I was anywhere close to blowing my burgers, I’m home and no more than 15 feet from the shitter.
What would be so difficult about tracking people through passport activity in & out of Africa? Then you’d have a better idea of how many of these idiots are out on the loose and a general idea of where they can be found.
[quote]BeefEater wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Edited[/quote]
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2014/10/17/cruise-ship-ebola/17401823/[/quote]
Another gem. Imagine letting ppl know what you do for a living (specifically…) at a casual dinner conversation? They would be jumping over the side of the boat…
Criticism of the government and Obama’s handling of Ebola is now racist.
Here’s a good write-up about the clusterfuck response.
The pandemic expert is nowhere to be found because of a scandal involving a democratic donor!
Instead there’s some useless democratic appointed as ebola response coordinator. He was also involved with the Solyndra nonsense
Write up from AofS
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/352523.php
From the WSJ Notable and Quotable - About the Head of the CDC Thomas Frieden
Notable & Quotable: “The Bloomberg Disease”
One name that hasn’t yet surfaced yet in respect of the floundering by the federal government in the face of Ebola is Michael Bloomberg.
Yet it was the former mayor of New York City who gave the nation Thomas Frieden, who is one dangerous doctor and is the middle of the catastrophe. Mr. Bloomberg made him New York City’s [commissioner of Health and Mental Hygiene], which is a post that tries to re-educate New Yorkers so that they will accept passively living like socialists.
Now Dr. Frieden directs the Centers for Disease Control, where he wants to do the same thing. . . .
The CDC budget has soared more than 200% since 2000 to $7 billion. The Centers, moreover, are squandering this lucre (which was seized from the American public using the taxes) on regulating motorcycle helmets, video games, and playground equipment, as if any of that has anything to do with diseases. No wonder that when Ebola hits, the CDC seems to be staggering.
We don’t know Mayor Bloomberg or Dr. Frieden well (the latter we met but once). Our beef with them is the way they have extended the ideology of public health into American politics without putting any of these policies to a vote.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
New story coming out, man from Lagos dies on airline flight to JFK after vomiting extensively. After a “cursory” exam declared no ebola. Nydaily reports.
This is a huge fucking mistake. Whoever wants to thrash the CDC rep is more than welcome…this is unbelievable. I am personally trying to wait until I find out the details of said cursory exam and how they determined this outcome with certainty so fast, but based on what has come out so far it appears massive negligence on the officials part. [/quote]
While the outbreak in Nigeria seems to be contained, this recent analysis raises some concerns:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonfortenbury/2014/10/15/21-days-not-a-long-enough-quarantine-for-ebola-according-to-new-study/[/quote]
Perusing the full paper now. A previous study on survivors (I believe) had shown that there was EBOV antibodies found in sperm at day 40 (trying to find that study again but can’t at the moment). That always made me question the 21 day cycle. On the other hand since almost everybody develops symptoms between 3-8 days after exposure That’s a 200% margin of safety on quarantine time for most of the bell curve. I do have some questions about the author of the paper you linked though.[/quote]
What you’re talking about pertains to survivors though. I’m concerned about people being monitored for 21 days for ebola, then being cleared, then coming down with ebola at day 40 for instance. Doesn’t matter how statistically likely it is, if its possible at all then it will happen.
In any case I really want answers about what happened at JFK. I mean what the fuck, officials just said “not ebola. this man just vomited to death for no reason”
Couldn’t find any literature on it, but what I did find (eg someone wrote it somewhere on the internet) was that the lifespan of antibodies is a few weeks, although I can’t verify whether this is accurate.
That would explain the antibodies still being present postinfection.
This had some values, although I don’t have time to make proper sense of it
Just trying to find some established information on whether or not antibodies remain in circulation for awhile after infection.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Couldn’t find any literature on it, but what I did find (eg someone wrote it somewhere on the internet) was that the lifespan of antibodies is a few weeks, although I can’t verify whether this is accurate.
That would explain the antibodies still being present postinfection.
This had some values, although I don’t have time to make proper sense of it
Just trying to find some established information on whether or not antibodies remain in circulation for awhile after infection.[/quote]
Are you even asking the right question?
If people are waiting around for a magic vaccine to appear in a few months, to be tested, proven safe and effective…they had better have a back-up plan. Phone the Neptune Society for helpful ideas.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Instead there’s some useless democratic appointed as ebola response coordinator. He was also involved with the Solyndra nonsense
[/quote]
Something tell me that some folks are going to make ALOT of money off of Ebola…
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Couldn’t find any literature on it, but what I did find (eg someone wrote it somewhere on the internet) was that the lifespan of antibodies is a few weeks, although I can’t verify whether this is accurate.
That would explain the antibodies still being present postinfection.
This had some values, although I don’t have time to make proper sense of it
Just trying to find some established information on whether or not antibodies remain in circulation for awhile after infection.[/quote]
Are you even asking the right question?
If people are waiting around for a magic vaccine to appear in a few months, to be tested, proven safe and effective…they had better have a back-up plan. Phone the Neptune Society for helpful ideas.
[/quote]
Does a persons health, age, etc. raise the likelihood of survival? Since most deaths have been in Africa is the mortality rate due to the poor health of those infected,.