[quote]hedo wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Seriously, the US must be a really dangerous place to live, from the responses that I see on these threads you must each be repelling home invasions and rape attempts on a daily basis.
Perhaps you should think about moving to downtown Baghdad where it is safer.
Someone needs to visit get their ass left overnight in Baltimore, Washington, Philly, Camden, St. Louis, or any of them other badass cities and tell me he doesn’t wish to fucking god he had a gun on him.
What would I do, walk around with a gun in my hand, waving it at anyone who looked scary? Would that decrease my risk of getting hurt?
No that would be considered brandishing. It’s a crime and a poor tactic. You would simply avoid trouble, but if someone tries to kill you then you have the option of using lethal force to defend yourself.
If you are in one of the more free states the criminals don’t know if you have a concealed weapon or not and tend to avoid thos who don’t behave like prey.
Having the option to defend yourself is a basic human right and good common sense. Banning the means to excercise that right is simple fear on the part of those who seek the ban.
[/quote]
Or alternatively the criminal would shoot first and ask questions later because they don’t want to take the risk.
I would imagine that a lot of the difference in our opinion is conditioned. I grew up in the UK where there is (or was) a totally different attitude to guns than in the US. This has conditioned my response to a situation.
My reaction is to look for a solution that doesn’t involve a gun. Someone from the US is more likely to think that a gun can solve their problems because this is what they have been conditioned into thinking by the media that they grew up with.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
So do you really believe that gun ownership protects you in any way from the government? How did that work out for the guys in Waco?[/quote]
Well british gun owning citizens did win a revolution and created the greatest country on earth, which effectively changed the entire world order of the day.
So did Texan settlers and american volunteers against Mexico, who had a pretty decent military and political presence at the time. Hell, 189 people with guns at the Alamo held off literally thousands of mexicans for days.
In Waco you had a tiny force vs. a large force with essentially unlimited resources in comparison.
And, technically speaking, guns did allow the Davidians to hold out for much longer than they could have otherwise.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I would imagine that a lot of the difference in our opinion is conditioned. I grew up in the UK where there is (or was) a totally different attitude to guns than in the US. This has conditioned my response to a situation.
My reaction is to look for a solution that doesn’t involve a gun. Someone from the US is more likely to think that a gun can solve their problems because this is what they have been conditioned into thinking by the media that they grew up with.
I just watched too much Macguyver as a kid![/quote]
Technically every difference in opinion, or agreement, is due to conditioning if you really take an opinion to the root.
That is a moot point. And why majority rule is the most effective way to manage a large group.
Frankly the UK has no right telling the US how it should manage guns.
But the US tells people what to do all the time you say? Yes. Because we have the most guns. Which gives us the power. Majority rule or not.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
So do you really believe that gun ownership protects you in any way from the government? How did that work out for the guys in Waco?[/quote]
Not well. They failed to actually shoot any of the Feds. They were burned to death nonetheless.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
So do you really believe that gun ownership protects you in any way from the government? How did that work out for the guys in Waco?[/quote]
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
So do you really believe that gun ownership protects you in any way from the government? How did that work out for the guys in Waco?
Not well. They failed to actually shoot any of the Feds. They were burned to death nonetheless.
[/quote]
Which just goes to show having guns is not the only necessary factor to a successful defense.
You know what though, even though I live in a supposedly violent country and I don’t have a gun, I sleep comfortably and safely in my bed every night.[/quote]
How do you think a cow sleeps the night before it gets a bolt gun through its brain pan? How does my wife defend herself with my child slung across her chest in the event she encounters a lethal threat?
New rule: CB, you aren’t allowed to wear a seatbelt. You probably aren’t going to get into an accident. The odds are really stacked against you getting in a serious wreck. Besides, if NO cars had seat belts then everyone would drive more slowly and carefully.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Seriously, I cannot actually understand what is the point of the argument that you are trying to make, it seems like you are saying that if more people carried guns then there would be less gun violence, if that is not what you are saying, please do correct me.[/quote]
Making the ownership of a pistol punishable as attempted murder - your words, not mine, not a strawman - is utterly stupid.
We are guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms by our constitution. We have plenty of gun control laws on the books as it is - too many in the estimation of many.
I think that the threat of everyone being armed is enough to stop much of the gun violence we see in the US. Look no further than statistics from Texas and Florida who both have either concealed carry, or open carry allowances. In Texas, the use of deadly force in the protection of your property is now guaranteed by law.
Where people are allowed to be free, the criminal element is forced to find other places to do their dirty work.
You’re right you said they were scared into joining. Same thing when you boil it down to the basics. Fear = subject to force.
The second amendment is my amendment. It is my right. I jump up and down in defense of all of the rights afforded me by the constitution. Just because you are used to not having rights, doesn’t mean everyone else should be so careless in giving them up.
And more straw men from you? Do you ever tire of your fucking hypocrisy? Ever? I count no less than 4 you have created just in typing out posts directed towards me.
But just for your information - you don’t get much more cowboy than I am. So take your fucking foot out of your mouth and stop with the straw men already.
But you have no trouble correcting others. Yet another hypocritical stance from someone whose country is running red with the blood of gun violence.
In the spirit of the second amendment, I thought I’d post this link to plans for an open-source multimachine, capable of producing all the guns your heart desires:
In an ideal world everyone should be allowed to do whatever they like. In theory, Anarchy is the best political system.
Problem is, that doesn’t seem to work in practice.
[/quote]
Anarchy is more of a principal than a political system. Anarchy is all about survival of the fittest, and consequently adaptability. Adaptability is the key here. You see, in fact, government is a manifestation of anarchy. 100,000 years ago, when homo sapiens first emerged, you might consider their primitive society as close to anarchy as humans have ever gotten. Why is it then, that we have complex governments today?
Because, as dictated by darwinism, by constantly rejecting what is useless and keeping what is useful, humans have over time developed the governments that we live under today.
Thus, anarchy is NOT the best political system. The political systems we have now are the best, until something better emerges, due to darwin’s principal. If anarchy truly were the best political system, humans would be living in it now. Conversely, if our modern governments are worse than anarchy, then they would have never emerged.
Tell you what, when there are as many people who want to kill your family as there are that want to kill the US president then we can talk about getting you some highly trained armed guards.
[/quote]
it only takes one.
All it takes is one occasion. I have wife and three kids. I don’t plan to take my chances.
Instead of calling the idea stupid, try explaining why. Are you seriously telling me that large numbers of criminals from Texas and Florida are packing up shop and moving to other states because they are worried about being shot? Would they not be more likely to just go and buy a gun and get a concealed carry permit?
rainjack, there is no strawman in the argument you comment on, I chose the word cowboy deliberately because I thought it would resonate with you given that you are from Texas, why would my foot be in my mouth? I assumed that you were a redneck rooting tooting cowboy type from your previous comments, and you are now agreeing that it was a correct assumption.
The second amendment is totally outdated. It’s something that was written down a long time ago for a different set of circumstances.
When people wonder why the UK has no written constitution, this is the point that they are missing. If you write down a constitution you risk it being taken totally out of context by people either with an agenda or a basic lack of understanding a number of years later. This is exactly what has happened.
How is me asking you what a word that I don’t know means correcting you? You seriously do come across as very touchy.
What are you all so scared of that you cannot intelligently debate gun control? Why the hysteria?
And if you are trying to get a rise out of me by attacking the failings of Mexico then you are aiming at the wrong person. There are a huge number of things to love about Mexico but there is also a shit load wrong with it. I live here out of choice, not because I have to.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Instead of calling the idea stupid, try explaining why. Are you seriously telling me that large numbers of criminals from Texas and Florida are packing up shop and moving to other states because they are worried about being shot? Would they not be more likely to just go and buy a gun and get a concealed carry permit?[/quote]
Why is the sky blue? It just is. Why is your idea stupid? The Second Amendment guarantees me the right to keep and bear arms. Why would the government criminalize a right expressly granted to me in the Constitution?
That right there is utter stupidity. Sorry if you don’t agree, but that’s all the defense I need to have of my position.
I am saying crime has gone down as a result of the populace regaining the right to carry weapons on their person. Did the criminals go away, or did they just stop their criminal ways? Who gives a fuck? People in FL and TX are safer now because a criminal has to think twice about robbing someone, or breaking into one’s home.
Which one? You have a bout 4 straw men set up. be more specific.
Who I am, or what you think I am has no bearing whatsoever on this argument. You created a person you wanted me to be, and attacked that person - not the original argument. That is a classic straw man.
I am not a “redneck rooting tooting cowboy type”. In fact this is your first mention of ‘redneck’. I AM a cowboy. I worked on ranches for the better part of my 20’s, and have a degree in Animal Science. I also have an MBA. Shove your sterotyping bigotry up your fucking ass.
Says who? You? Are you even a US citizen?
Once again, says who? You? Your opinion on the US Constitution has proven to be quite worthless.
I would say there is no hysteria. Perhaps you should check on the definition of the word before you use it.
There is no fear here. There is a very low threshold for bullshit. And you have exceed that in spades.
I don’t give a shit if I get a rise out of you or not. But since you live there by choice, why are you not working to make Mexico the gun free zone you think the US should be?
I love Mexico too, but I am not about to tell them what what they should or shouldn’t do. Unlike you - I believe people should live free - not under the thumb of an oppressive government that would have you brought up on attempted murder for owning a pistol.
I am through with you. You are about as ignorant a person as I have ever encountered. You should look up AndyG her on T-Nation. You and he would hit it off like two long-lost sisters.
[quote]FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Seriously, the US must be a really dangerous place to live, from the responses that I see on these threads you must each be repelling home invasions and rape attempts on a daily basis.
Perhaps you should think about moving to downtown Baghdad where it is safer.
Someone needs to visit get their ass left overnight in Baltimore, Washington, Philly, Camden, St. Louis, or any of them other badass cities and tell me he doesn’t wish to fucking god he had a gun on him.
What? Didn’t we just go back and forth in the combat forum over how ineffective you think guns are? And how only uncivilized people defend themselves with guns while the civilized world uses boxing jabs?
You self contradict quite a bit across threads. I think you are the troll. [/quote]
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Seriously, the US must be a really dangerous place to live, from the responses that I see on these threads you must each be repelling home invasions and rape attempts on a daily basis.
Perhaps you should think about moving to downtown Baghdad where it is safer.
Someone needs to visit get their ass left overnight in Baltimore, Washington, Philly, Camden, St. Louis, or any of them other badass cities and tell me he doesn’t wish to fucking god he had a gun on him.
What would I do, walk around with a gun in my hand, waving it at anyone who looked scary? Would that decrease my risk of getting hurt?[/quote]
Having it on you might deter certain elements from coming around you that otherwise would have had you pegged for a target, if you had it visible.
Otherwise, it evens the playing field should you find yourself faced with some of the killers out there.
I’m just for having guns in the house. All American families should own a gun- it’s the ultimate check and balance against an over expansive government.
Bad things happen when only the government has guns.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
For rainman and the various other people on the Justin Eilers thread who have a real hard time understanding a basic point.
In an ideal world everyone should be allowed to do whatever they like. In theory, Anarchy is the best political system.
Problem is, that doesn’t seem to work in practice. If there had been no guns in Justin Eiler’s murderer’s houes, there is a good likelihood that no-one would have died. the root cause of the problem was drink and aggression, the gun turned a bad situation into a nightmare.[/quote]
Pure speculation.
Who are these people and what is their agenda?
[quote]
Your average NRA member is not affected by the terrible problems that easy access to guns cause in underprivilaged communities in the US and what’s more, they couldn’t care less.[/quote]
So, you do not know the basic composition of the NRA, let alone their individual concerns or mindset, and you would like to assume to understand such specifics as this?
[quote]
OK, lets see if people can respond to this without the need to resort to name calling, offensive language or straw man arguments.[/quote]
Since there is no statement of fact here, just supposition and assumption, what is there to resopnd to?
Lemme guess! You’re one of those high minded intelectuals who makes assumptions based on conclusions drawn from previous assumptions, Huh?
Tail chasing ninny. No wonder you ended up in mexico.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
FormerlyTexasGuy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Seriously, the US must be a really dangerous place to live, from the responses that I see on these threads you must each be repelling home invasions and rape attempts on a daily basis.
Perhaps you should think about moving to downtown Baghdad where it is safer.
Someone needs to visit get their ass left overnight in Baltimore, Washington, Philly, Camden, St. Louis, or any of them other badass cities and tell me he doesn’t wish to fucking god he had a gun on him.
What? Didn’t we just go back and forth in the combat forum over how ineffective you think guns are? And how only uncivilized people defend themselves with guns while the civilized world uses boxing jabs?
You self contradict quite a bit across threads. I think you are the troll.
How’d your date go last night Money Shot?
I hope he didn’t get it in your eye this time. [/quote]
You would hope I was gay. Sorry charlie, but you can’t have me.
It went well. I fucked her twice and came in her mouth once. The date was fun too.